100,000 Soul Cost for 1 Legendary Ingot; 1,000,000 for Mythic Ingot

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I know that the soulforge balance hasn’t always been the greatest, but the conversion rate of lower rarity ingots is quite expensive given their useless abundance.

Assuming all conversions below using spare common ingots only, this is the process of upgrading them.

1: Convert 10 common ingots into 1 rare ingot, giving a rare ingot the value of 100 souls.

2: Convert 10 rare ingots into 1 ultra-rare ingot, giving a ultra rare ingot the value of 1,000 souls.

3: Convert 10 ultra rare ingots into 1 epic ingot, giving a epic ingot the value of 10,000 souls.

4: Convert 10 epic ingots into a legendary ingot, giving a legendary ingot a value of 100,000 souls.
Maxing a legendary weapon from upgraded common ingots costs 4,500,000 souls.

5: Convert 10 legendary ingot into a mythic ingot, giving a mythic ingot a value of 1,000,000 souls.
Maxing a mythic weapon from upgraded common ingots costs 55,000,000 souls.

One possible solution to fix this is to reduce the cost of converting common to rare and rare to ultra rare down to something like 10 souls instead of 100.

Could also make it something like 20/40/60/80/100 respectively, or even 10/20/30/40/50.

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Even if they reduce the cost I still would never craft anything. Same with traitstones. 2 celestials for an arcane? Besides I’ve already had a legendary and mythic ingot drop in pvp so far.

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The main difference is it takes about 3-5 hours to max out everything that requires common ingots. xD

It doesn’t matter as much for traitstones as it takes 100s of hours to do the same with minor traitstones, lowering the necessity to craft them into other things.

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I guess you will have some extra work for your streams now with the hero skill tree :joy:

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Grinding like 4+ hours of pvp per day until all hero classes maxed. xD

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I never thought I would do the celestial to arcane, but I did actually do it last night to 9 star a kingdom haha. Stupid explore kept giving me Celestials and not as many of the arcane I wanted, so I crafted the last few I needed. I have 10x more Celestials than all my other arcane stones anyway, so I figured it was worth it in this case.

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The right price should even be 1 111 100 souls.
100 000 common ==> 10 000 rare 1M souls
10 000 rare ==> 1 000 ultra rare 100 000 souls
1 000 ultra rare ==> 100 epic 10 000 souls
100 epic ==> 10 legendary 1 000 souls
10 legendary ==> 1 mythic 100 souls

But I’m just playing smartass, the order of magnitude is right.

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I know there is a concern in theory, but I don’t think It will be much problem in practice/actual gameplay.

Crafting the Mythic Ingot “all” from Common Ingot is comparable to crafting single Celestial Traitstone from “all” truckload of minor traitstones. Very possible, but no one will actually do it.

I think when people want to craft Mythic Ingot, they won’t only use Common one. Although rarer, they will be some hoard of Rare/Ultra-Rare/Epic/Legendary available to them already, and that would cutting soul price to be a lot lower and affordable.

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I think this is Chicken Little.

Let’s speak realistically. @Tacet, I’m sure you play Gems of War a lot. Have you been playing PvP much? How many ingots do you have? Let’s abbreviate rarities as C, R, UR, E, L, and M.

I’ve only been able to play for a few hours, and I spent a lot of my time in Arena/Explore where you don’t get PvP. But a few tasks needed PvP. I got 35 C, 10 R, 1 UR, and 1 E out of my matches, so we can see I played about 50 total matches.

So I have about 1,235 C worth of ingots, but only 35 of those are in C form and will cost 1,000,000 to convert upwards. If I assume this is the typical spread, at the end of the week I might have 245 C, 70 R, 7 UR, 7 E, and probably a legendary or two due to luck.

It is doomsaying to pretend the only reward we get is 1 C per match.

If I get 1 R ingot, not only does that count as 10 C, I didn’t have to spend 100 souls. So 1R = 10C and 100 Souls. More or less, an ingot’s soul cost is 10 times its C cost. Let’s look at it that way.

PvP Tier 1 awards 1 M, 2 L, 3 E, and 4 UR. So you get a free 1,234,000 souls per week. From roughly 50 PvP matches, I have 12,300 souls worth of ingots. Everything you get that isn’t a C saves you souls.

We don’t know how future events are going to award ingots, but we do see that PvP generously gives us 1 M weekly. I’m willing to bet raids/invasions hand out at least one L, probably more likely rewards similar to the PvP tiers.

Everyone is desperate to portray this as terrible, but let me tell you what I think.

Yesterday, Tacet the Terror was a badass endgame player across several alts. He only had to spend souls when he wanted to. Farming didn’t exist anymore. Today, he’s been shown there are months of farming he must achieve to get back there, and the souls he’s hoarded only marginally help him along that journey. This is why he’s mad. Every endgame player is feeling that. The goalposts have moved, and we all have to hustle.

Now look at it from the viewpoint of a new player who started yesterday. They’re level 50. They barely have any weapons. They don’t have Dawnbringer. All of these things take months to accomplish. Do you think this player’s bothered that they might also have to spend months accumulating ingots? I don’t think so.

This panic is entirely endgame player-motivated. They know it’s important to get newbies scared off if they want it to change. I don’t think that’s cute. We haven’t even had 24h to gather Ingot data. We have no clue how weekly events hand them out. Save your giant essays for when you have impressive data to show.

Right now all you’ve convinced me is I’ve “made” 12,000 souls for doing nothing. It’s hard to argue with that economy.

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Not every endgame player is mad about this, thanks.

The ones that are hampered by the weapon upgrade system are the ones who weren’t able to upgrade most kingdoms to 8 stars pre-update, which is more mid-game at this point.

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That’s one of the more “unfair” things and I didn’t foresee it, I thought kingdom power was going to be straightforward. At least with weapons, we’re all starting from 0.

I don’t have any concrete examples of it, but I get the sense that some kingdoms now take ingots to get stars, whereas yesterday we could’ve obtained that star with traitstones, souls, and lucky keys?

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Leveling a kingdom from 7 stars to 8 stars requires fully upgrading two weapons, which requires ingots.

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What happened if you had 8 stars before the 3.5 update? Did you lose that star?

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No. Stars were grandfathered in.

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Soooo… some people have kingdom power that’s technically impossible to achieve otherwise?

Brillant!

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If you want to make a common ingot into a mythic one, souls would be of little concern. If you get at least 10 souls a battle (which you do automatically with a +150% soul bonus), in as many battles as it takes to earn the 100,000 common ingots to make one mythic, you’d be guaranteed to have earned at least 1,000,000 souls from killing 4 troops per battle. Technically you need 1,111,100, but a minor amount of incidental soul gen (or just having a VIP level with a souls bonus) easily bridges this gap. The amount of battles alone is five times my account’s lifetime PvP and about 20 times what the top spots in the leaderboard get each week - very few people are going to get enough common ingots to make a single mythic ingot from them. Of course, intermediary higher rarity drops would fill in some of this considerably, but a common ingot is still only 0.001% of a mythic ingot or 0.01% of a legendary. Still better than the literal zero that “extra” minor traitstones are because of where the traitstone system’s bottlenecks are.

It seems pretty clear to me that the upgrade system is mostly for show and to act as a sink to keep ingots from dead-ending the same way so many other resources in this game do, and that the bulk of your usable ingots should come from just getting them outright through RNG. Because of the way the system works needing more of the higher rarity ingots, unlike traitstones, there is a pretty clear path where you actually can participate in the sink to very (very very) slightly accelerate yourself without shooting yourself in the foot long term, and they can trickle in ingots and dangle them in other areas as prizes and we wont turn up our noses at them because they actually represent something tangible. The exception here would be upgrading to mythic ingots too soon - there are many more legendary weapons, legendary weapons are slightly cheaper to max, if you want to upgrade kingdoms, you are better off focusing your efforts on getting past this bottleneck (for any kingdoms not already past that).

Honestly, the main “problem” here is putting the weapon requirement bottlenecks way too early in kingdom progression - needing to upgrade two kingdom weapons to max for a simple seven star. Still too soon to know drop rates, but thats a rather severe new bottleneck to just gloss over. As someone who passed that point with relative ease for every kingdom where it was possible so far, being grandfathered in seems extremely unfair to the amount of grinding/waiting necessary to get past that point, but the alternative would be having the clock set back months, maybe years, on my progression. It doesn’t really make sense to have this bottleneck this early, period, as it just existing is going to be extremely unfair to somebody. I know my alt’s account progression is basically forever arrested at about the 3 star level (I was intentionally not progressing kingdom skill bonuses, but now its not really even possible on some of them and others require heavy grinding where before I needed minimal weekly gameplay).

For ingots themselves, we may be looking at a resource economy that might actually function long term for once. Would feel slightly better about it if they had a way to burn off mythic ingots when your weapons are all maxed because it would send the message that it was actually intended for this point to be reachable, rather than just setting the bar so far away that they are reasonably certain it can’t be reached until they can distract with something else and sort of pretend they don’t exist anymore. I’m actually okay with the impossibly far bar for completionist tasks, but not for power progression.

tl;dr: Souls will be of little consequence. Ingot drop rates might be… but I think this is intended, and intermediary higher rarity drops between common and mythic need to be considered. Will know more when we have a better idea of the drop rate of ingots on how long it is expected to take to max a single weapon, let alone enough to get past new progression bottlenecks for old kingdoms.

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While I agree with what you say, I can also see Tacet’s point about

This isn’t just an endgamer issue, it’s everybody. After only a few hours (120 pvp matches) you will have every common weapon in the game maxed. Now common ingots are completely useless except for forging into rares. After a couple weeks (about 1000 pvp matches) now rare ingots will be useless too. etc. etc.

I think the soul cost could be reduced for at least the commons and rares seeing as how they are useless otherwise unlike minor traitstones which will always be needed along with higher raritys to trait troops. So a lot of people will be forging these ingots whereas I doubt anybody forges traitstones much.

I can also see the beauty in the simplicity of the ingots though. Rares for rare weapons etc. super simple and I like it so if the cost of having a simple system is having leftover useless lower rarities so be it.

So in conclusion, I like the way the ingot system is now but if they would just reduce the soul cost a little on forging the lower rarity ingots it would be perfect imo.

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