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The real reason Casual PvP's gold was nerfed

I remember when they fixed the “exploit” on casual pvp after setting explorer to Warlord IV
right after Explorer update…that was fast…

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I think the op is right, but I think that is only part of why they changed gold in pvp.

The entire point of 4.7 was to essentially eliminate LTs. By adding epic tasks they accomplished this for 95% of players. Other people have done the math to prove that.

What they then did is severely limit LTs for the other 4% by squashing gold drops in pvp.

This eliminates LTs for 99% of players. The 1% are people who basically have all the things anyhow. For them Mythics from LTs aren’t really important. Neither are keys and traitstones. Unless new troops come out, which they have stockpiles of mats to use for them. So the people who don’t really need them have access while those who do have limited or no access.

I would like for once a company with paying customers to stop being cowards and tell us like it is. I’m sick of the nonsense and not only from these devs, but any company for any product.

Well thats my two cents.

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This is in no way saying that the shenanigans about fixing this “exploit” are acceptable but why would devs really care how fast people level their classes? Some are totally worthless and most are not worth leveling past 40. Active players have the 4 or 5 classes they use at 100. The rest is mostly completionist.

This whole issue seems to be less evil genious and more useful idiot imho.

As cited in the OP. Class Trials are underperforming. They want us to use more gems for class XP…
Anytime players aren’t playing any part of the game… It’s a bad thing for the devs.
Their hope is, less activity in cPvP will translate to more activity in class trials.
But essentially this all theory due to the lack of any facts presented from the devs. Other than “they fixed an Exploit” that didn’t exist… Unless of course “Farming hero XP easily” is considered an “Exploit”.

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I’ve posted a further clarification on the issue here.

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My thoughts. :grinning:

Supposedly Class Trials are supposed to be a way to spend gems to get class XP.

The problem is the bonus XP is pretty trivial compared to just doing PvP battles for the same amount of time/effort. I really think they should add a ton of bonus XP, or make the reward for certain prize tiers be “you gain a level unconditionally”. All said and done the effort/reward ratio for class trials completely turns me off.

Making other modes worse doesn’t change that. I’m never going to get excited about being asked to do $50 of labor to make $1.

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because sooner or later you will need those awful classes to be 100 for kingdom leveling. And trust me if you completely ignore it for multiple kingdoms (almost all of them since as you said the true good classes are like 5) you will miss out on ton of rewards from tribute. It’s the same sh- I mean stuff from delves. Now you simply cannot ignore the 2500 points on every faction because you need the pet to level up the kingdom. Either that or you wait for the second normal pet, which, by the looks on spoilers on what the next few pets are gonna be, it’s going to happen in 2030

what I don’t get is if the exploit was fixed and no longer exploitable why can’t they tell us what it was it’s fixed so trying to do it now wouldn’t yield any results

I’m pretty sure Salty explained it somewhere but it wasn’t front and center. If it wasn’t Salty it was someone else who represents the devs. I forget the exact details but it was something like this:

If all you do is Casual PvP and never ranked, you don’t get any of the revenge/whatever battles with increased rewards. But gaining PvP rank tells matchmaking to give you stronger opponents, which also affects Casual matchmaking because of course it does.

So smart people would fight 1 Ranked PvP battle to win so they’d get in the Revenge pool, then lose a few battles to look “weak” to the matchmaking system. Then they’d fight non-stop casual PvP, using cheap refreshes to seek either very easy or Revenge battles to get more gold. (I didn’t even think Revenge battles worked in Casual? Maybe they did it because losses are negative points. I don’t know. It’s all messed up.)

Anyway, the obvious problem is your actions in Ranked could affect Casual, so the obvious solution is to make all PvP fights pay out worse rewards. That way nobody’s happy.

#weareinthebusinessoffun #workingasintended

Since patch went live, I searched for ways to boost gold. We have troops, and teams, that do just that.

Using this I’m making more gold than prior to 4.7, because before the patch I didn’t prioritize gold boosting.

I’m using this not only to maximize my gold per match, in modes I can, but also as a way to quickly level classes.

We have options. In fact, if you wanted too, with two Cedrics and a Greed you could boost gold to 300/300, or with Merchant Prince 325/325. Those options might be slower though, so I personally stick with Egg Thief.

Though in my daily delve I use the Merchant Prince with two Cedrics, since it helps maximize my daily delve gold.

I do really appreciate a post I can paste to people to highlight a good way to set up the Skeleton Key team. The part of my post you’ll like: why are you running Oracle instead of Thief? My understanding was Thief made it more streamlined and dangerous.

(Here’s a copyable companion to the post: [6498,6629,1214,6600,3048,2,2,1,2,1,2,0,14010])

The part this kind of misses is I do wish I could quickly farm classes in PvP and get as much gold as I used to. It’s not like I’m losing gold, but I’ve been farming more Explore too. Really my deal on this topic is:

  • I didn’t have to make this choice before, PvP was for trophies + gold + class XP and everyone knew Explore/Arena were better at some of those things.
  • I don’t like this particular choice because I liked being able to do those 2 at once.
    • In return, I wasn’t farming medals, which I arguably should focus on harder than class XP.
  • The devs didn’t say they did this for economy balance. It was to fix an exploit that affected Casual PvP.
    • It is :poop: that Casual and Ranked affect each other, always has been.
    • The devs have had 5 years to fix that, this isn’t the first exploit of this form.
    • I’m pretty sure their stated reason is :poop: because they don’t want to call it an economy rebalance.

So that last one is the angle I’m going to gripe until the cows, who have come home, stop depositing :poop: because they don’t want to say “economy rebalance”. I sense, as is usual, a lot of the steam’s been let out of opposition due to time.

So I’ll see you next release when something in Explore has to be nerfed because they’re “fixing an exploit in Arena”.

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I’m currently trying to finish Oracle Class to 100, sure there are way better hero classes for the Key team, but I’m trying to maximize gold production, as well as level a class. Two birds, one stone.

And as I said, with the gold boost from Cedric, I’m making much more per match than prior to 4.7, because I wasn’t prioritizing gold boosting.

It’s working out great for me, because more gold means less worry about meeting my guild requirements, and the other gold sinks such as Monthly Delves.

I look for solutions as a problem solver, I don’t like complaining about problems I can actively solve, and in doing so, I hope to help others as well.

OK I thought it might be “for leveling” but I’m always curious if there’s some weird skill interaction I didn’t notice.

We sort of get that 4.7 is your favorite update and it’s the most fun you’ve been having in your entire life. That’s still not quite an argument as to whether this one achievement was a good idea or not. You’re not going to get a trophy for making every post 2/3 about how much you like the game, just like I won’t for making 2/3 of my content about what I want improved.

Maybe that’s a part you don’t get about me. I can bitch about things I like. Part of my job’s always involved going over what we have and thinking about or asking what our customers want. We get paid a lot more if we can do what they want before they ask. So while I’m proud of what I build, I’m always prepared to throw it away if I get a strong customer report it was wrong.

If I thought GoW was bad I’d just leave. It only takes me 2-3 days to tire of a game I don’t actually like. There’s too many other things to do. The things I complain about the most tend to be the things I like the best, because they’re the ones I’m most invested in thinking about making better. I can’t post on the forums at work, but I spend about an hour a day thinking about the posts I want to make. When I’m playing modes, I ask myself which parts aren’t fun. Then I try to think about how they could be fun.

So the reason I aggressively push back against you is part of the conversation above, but you overlooked it because it was stated harshly. It’s not right that only the people who praise a thing enjoy it. The harshest critics are often also the most passionate players.

If the core of your argument were true, we could just delete all negative reviews of things because “those are people who don’t care about it anyway”. But that’s preposterous, we’re supposed to read the criticism and decide if it’s based on things we agree with. That’s why I consider your arguments weak so far: it’s just based on “I like it” as opposed to something stronger like “here’s the math, this seems like an attainable goal”. (Though I think you did that math somewhere else, it got lost in all the back and forth.)

I don’t want to see GOW go down the toilet either. Your approach is “Let’s talk about the parts of the boat that aren’t leaking, we can seal off the others.” My approach is “Let’s look for leaks and tools to fix them.” We can work together, but if we stay opposed we won’t accomplish as much.

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4.7 is my favorite patch, but only because I play a lot and before 4.7 my playtime wasn’t reflected on the guild roster. With trophies added to everything, I can now generate thousands of trophies a week, rather than 1,000 or less.

That’s not important to everyone, but it is to me.

I was hurt by 4.7, I always did casual pvp for my gold production, and rank 12 explore. So, when I saw how poorly my team was doing in cpvp in terms of gold making, I started looking at ways to help level classes and make good gold.

The Skeleton key team seemed to be a sound fix, and after using it a few hours I noticed my gold per hour was up by a lot vs pre-4.7.

I have no idea why you feel utilizing tools we all have access to, means I am in someway praising 4.7. I’m trying to find ways to help the situation, and since I like leveling a class quickly and I like making more gold per match, I simply experimented until I was satisfied.

You can look for all the holes you want in this ship and post about all the holes you find, I’d rather play the game and make the most of the time I put in myself, which is why I mentioned I look for solutions to a problem, instead of accepting a problem and doing nothing but complain about it…

Prior to 4.7, most people had good soul farming teams, by boosting souls per match, and I’m sure those teams still function the same. I just took that concept and switched it to gold boosting, and the results really surprised me.

I could have made millions more a month had I used Cedric/Greed prior to 4.7, but I was complacent. Oh well, live and learn I guess.

Can we go just one post without you phrasing my argument the way you want it and putting it in my mouth? I praise this particular effort but can you do it “to help people” instead of “to spite me”?

I did try that key team and I’m curious if you do lower levels just for gold yield? I played at 10 and it was a little clunkier than I wanted but solid, more or less what I expected. I think I’m going to keep using my less-gold-but-more-fun teams at 12 but it’s good to know a gold farming trick if I ever get in that mood.

I farm Broken Spire Rank 6 with my Skeleton key team, also the daily Adventure Board, Daily Dungeon, and casual pvp. I switch over to rank 12 throughout my playtime though to help get better tokens, but I use a less gold friendly team because I like faster rank 12.

It’s great to farm rank 6 with key team to meet any gold requirements. It’s fast and safe, it’s also great to help level classes, though I do wish we got 2 class EXP per battle in Explore.

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Aha, I don’t even have to try that out to believe it, it lines up exactly with what I felt like rank 10 with SK taught me.

In the end it’s really just a shift from “PvP is gold + class XP” to “PvP is mostly for class XP now”. I feel like the trophy changes confirm that, even giving 2 trophies to some modes has seriously lessened the need for farming.

So a kernel of your argument across several threads I agree with is, “while the dust settles it’s scary, but there sure are obvious routes for farming still.” I’m still going to miss getting class XP and gold out of PvP. :wink: Can’t take the desire to multitask away from me.

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I agree. I was only trying to say I make more gold now and not less with 4.7, but like you said, class exp is a bit slower at 1 per win rather than 2 battling mostly explore.

Maybe they will up class exp to 2 in all modes, and add pet gnomes to all modes where gnomes pop up, that would solve almost everything (in my opinion).

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