Would be cool, could drain 30% mana instead of 20% mana since otherwise this counter medal wouldn’t do much in a few too many battles. Since this game uses Banker’s rounding, looking at like… 1 mana drain at 10%, which seems ok to just not have an empowered go off turn 1.
Or… would that 20% medal stack for 20/40/60?
If we have a game mode that required the creation of an OP troop to overcome its overly burdensome structure and the time has come to limit the creation of these OP troops, then the time has also come to rework the event and eliminate the overly burdensome structure.
The “nerf” isn’t horrible, tho I’m confused why the next Wargare troop is getting 1 more gem spawn than the beast one next week.
For the event the nerf is not desirable, using a storm can help, +10 is still a decent amount of creation but harder to get those extra turns consistently, even the current 15 isn’t always a guarantee.
Beyond the journey event though, this may be a good change. With the new PVP system, Guild Wars, and explore runs, I honestly fear Journey troops sometimes in opposition. One wrong move and then it’s the enemy looping you to death which honestly is a lot less fun.
I did Ike the idea (however I doubt it’s doable) of extra mana generation in Journey events only. That would be more ideal. But I honestly avoid or have to change my team when I see a decent pathfinder team in explore.
The current next Journey troops are still loads better to complete journey than Hawthorn and Deathclaw. Those troops were basically only on the team because they essentially had to be. I was one of those who overspent and got the journey achievement on the first ever one with hawthorn. I barely had to touch the death claw one thankfully as other guildmates went hardcore on that one
Idk, just my 2¢
I somehow don’t see devs re-programming AI so that it’s less lucky with skull cascades (which is a huge deal in high level delves or in epic trials) and keeping the loop going, so… we are stuck with begging for some re-balancing so that these 7 troops (and any future ones) don’t dominate PvP and don’t destroy the game. I wish the devs noticed the problem sooner, tho… these loopers were causing problems in the old PvP, now it’s just more visible.
Some people say the loopers are easy to counter - if you’re talking about freeze, this fails surprisingly often. It’s enough that the random freeze at the start doesn’t hit the looper at the start of the battle but instead hits enemy team member that doesn’t use the looper’s colours, and you never get a match-4 before AI starts looping. Or the freeze clears after 1-2 turns. There are Chalcedony teams out there, where only Chalc uses brown-yellow, the other 3 are in different mana colours, so you have 25% chance that the starting freeze hits the troop you want. So. Both easy and so NOT easy in practice.
If you’re worried about PvP, mana drain stops a vast majority of dumb strategies.
If you’re worried about any other game mode, it should never happen unless you let it.
It’s nice to c u on the forums Tyrion. And it was probably Isabel♥️ who went crazy on those journey events.
The journey troops have already gotten out of hand. Why? It destroys creative thinking and team composition. Why carefully think about troops when u can just fill up one troop and click it over and over again to win?
I get that people want to win fast and get things over with, but journey troops make most other troops useless. And let’s not even get into wildfolk and divine journey troops with green and yellow gem spawns respectively. It would be almost unstoppable.
I don’t know how to balance them inside and outside of a journey event. It’s not as simple as boosting their magic. They would have to rework the final pathfinder trait I think to add in more gem spawns. But I have no idea how they could code it in for the specific color gem for that particular pathfinder troop.
What about changing the last trait to something like: “create extra 2 gems in colour X during journey event when casting a spell” instead of the score multiplier in that trait & adjust required rewards threshold & scoring for the Journey so that we don’t need the multiplier from the trait?
They could just… not make looping pathfinders and fix the journey rule set.
I could use some more destroy x gem troops right about now.
That’s okay, the journey rule set would need a lot of fixing though. So far I’m not really convinced they understand how broken journey would be at higher levels without that loop support. After all, it took them almost two years to realize that this loop support might not work out well outside of journey.
Some games and genres have unwritten rules. You’re F2P and have people throwing money at the game to give advantages/time savers/pulls/whatever there’s a way of doing things. You don’t see gachas mass nerfing their characters when they realised they missed something and made an OP unit, especially not when they’ve had people spending millions on them. Hell, half the time it’s probably on purpose to make more of those millions. Instead they build counters to them or add restrictions that prevent them being the go to for every single event. Their f-up, their problem to solve without simply nerfing.
The devs are right to want to change up Journey, it’s awful, especially if you’re short on one of life’s most valuable resources - time. Existing ones are another matter. If on top of that they want to put and end to Todd, Seekra, Chalcedony and Co., and really think there’s no other way than hard nerfing them all, I’d say they’re wrong to even consider it this late into things and they’ve been misinformed on their current use if they think they’re game-breaking.
Even if they still see them as a “problem”, they’re one of their own making and should do the right thing in adding more counters that specifically target them/their use… but there’s plenty of people here who know their stuff who are saying they’re only a problem if you let them be, there are counters, they are not “win buttons”. Devs themselves should have telemetry on all this stuff anyway, if they care to look before doing the big dumb nerf hammer on stuff 'cause whingers have been whinging or because they think there’s more potential to the bottom line with them gone, whatever the reason.
What you want is an end to more Journey troops of the same archetype - Kafka has already said that’s happening.
Nerfing the existing ones is something entirely different and something you have been advocating. The timing of this now is suss af:
This is why it’s a “problem” now and I think the timing is suss - it obvious PvP is where they see the next big push for monetisation in this game, when Alliances come (and who knows what else along with that) the shops’s surely going to be flashing away constantly and payers get loads more opportunity to become payers. That’s without even considering the pressures of how if affects guilds/groupings/friendships. Recovering some of the money and resources they’ve piled into that other game? Maybe it’s a bit of that as well.
All I’m saying is they had no issues bringing in more Journey loopers until very recently, even added one of the very best just a few weeks ago (that would have been in planning a long time before it dropped). Now adding more is a problem - I can see the potential for really game-breaking stuff as easily as anyone. But not only that, now the existing ones are a problem? Not just designing new ones? So now is the time to harm the enjoyment and options available to a huge swathe of the player base - one that’s very likely not well represented in their discord and beta testing teams - the mass of casual and not-so-tryhard players. Because PvP is where they think the money is and Todd is all too literally the Robin Hood of PvP? A lot of people don’t care for PvP, start ruining their enjoyment of the game because of precieved issues there and you’re doing them a disservice.
I can’t see why we players have to fight about each others about nerfing or not nerfing pathfinder troops.
Sorry, but I’m of the opinion, that it is all devs’ fault:
Their incompetence over the last years and esp. last year reached an all time low.
They now realise that there are problems with looping pathfinders?
Realising now, that there can be a problem with their new PvP system?
On the other hand, nerfing them is problematic in Journey event?
These are problems the devs created, not us!
Best example:
Why is the Maugrim Woods pathfinder for Wargare? We already have Todd!
Because Maugrim Woods is mainly Wargare?
Could have been Beast and Adelwing now for Elemental, but is it their schedule of kingdoms and events!
They can’t plan, they can’t release anything without bugs and they lied and giving false promise time after time - so what?
Sorry for ranting, maybe I will post some bug reports/general feedback the next days, but devs will ban me anyway for this post here.
No, the Pathfinder trait is standard – and thus must function the same – for ALL Pathfinder troops (the same as Bountyhunter, etc) when it is ONLY the looping troops that are even a problem.
But as long as we’re thinking of traits, maybe a new Troop could have a Legendary (or Mythic) trait like “Drain 2 Mana from all Enemies when an Enemy casts a spell” – or perhaps “Drain 2 Mana from all Enemies when an Enemy gets an Extra Turn”.
This wouldn’t be useful against Empowered or Pathfinder troops.
Order of Operations goes:
Troop cast/activate → trait goes off → choose your target of the cast
see: Faunessa + Ironhawk
There’s actually a situational check for enemy cast → player trait happens → enemy cast with Nyar’Mel if you really want to be specific on testing exact settings.
At that point Empowerered or Pathfinder troops are still going to cast and everything is still going to happen as expected. It could drain a 2nd empowered troop, but that’s still incredibly narrow/unreliable.
we have to lure the devs with something…
least amount of work would be to just stomp the Journey event into the ground and never feature it again.
will the first four words of the previous sentence do the trick?
can’t revert pvp back to what it was a month ago, usually changes take around 2+ years for something to eventually happen - if it is still regularly brought up by the playerbase.
Nobody has to fight about this. As I mentioned this is incomplete information about incomplete work that was pulled because of players data diving and grabbing game files.
I’ve mentioned that with the Troop rebalance there is also a Journey event review in the works as well.
We have always planned to make an official blog post about all of this with the details as well, but as none of this is finalised yet and the official news post isn’t written yet, and the community are arguing and posting about how worried they are, we had to come say something here early even though the work is ongoing.
It’s ok if you don’t trust us to do this right, but literally no one has to argue each other or debate it here because it’s all based on spoilers that aren’t finalised. It’s incomplete information.
Having said that, if you’re enjoying discussing and debating it, I’m also not asking you to stop - please continue!!! It’s great when everyone wants to discuss the Troops and game features (for better or worse) - but if it’s stressing you out and you’re not enjoying it, please don’t feel like you have to engage with the topic right now as it’s spoilers and missing information and the team were already working on both the pathfinder and Journey event before the thread was created.
Can you at least tell us if there is a planned change to journey for the one starting next week? Because from our side of things, we see the troop nerf with the current journey system and are dreading the event. If they are still tweaking stuff thats fine, but if the changes are NOT planned for this coming journey its a real feels bad.
My concern is that this is looking like very complete incomplete work. All upcoming Journey troops have been changed to follow a new, non-looping pattern at increased mana cost. This wouldn’t be worrying if the release date for those troops were still far off. However, the first one of this new series, Adelwing, is scheduled for the Journey event on Monday.
The changes are planned to be in next week’s Journey event.
Still ironing out the details but we will put all the information about changes to Pathfinders and Journey into a blog post once those details are finalised.
As always, with any changes, we will be monitoring the game data and player feedback regarding the changes made and tweaking things further as necessary even after these changes go live.
So if it’s not perfect first time around, we will review it again before the next Journey event.
Somehow I’m feeling even more worried now.
Is there any chance that this Journey could at least have extremely low reward thresholds out of the box, so that anything less than perfect in the first round doesn’t have to be paid by the players? Assume we are fighting with just three troops in the team, the new Pathfinder has to be carried along for scoring purposes, without contributing anything to the fight.
I know we all have different skills and playing styles but it baffles me how folks find these Pathfinders somehow overpowered? Back in the day we fought against loopers with Frostmage. Now we have this incredible and actually overpowered class Elementalist available. It has Snap Freeze talent which usually is already enough to slow those loopers, and on top of that you can freeze them more with extra turns.
Now one would come and say that Chalcedony for example can be adjusted to start with 50% mana and gets going ASAP if she matches gems. Well, at this point I would say how about using couple of those Empowered converters that everyone seems to hate so much. You need to be really unlucky if you can’t land extra turns with those. Happens, sure, but you have options.
I’d say the biggest problem is that people are running the same teams they are comfortable to play and then loose because they don’t adjust accordingly.
Nerfing these Pathfinders is not good move but then again I don’t even care because I don’t use them to attack nor to defend, except in the Journey events and we already know those are quite tough even with the current 15 gem creation Pathfinders, or rly brutal like that Ghulvania event was.
Ps. I almost never face these Pathfinders in Bracket 1 because top guild members know how easy they are to counter with freeze.
I totally understand that not experienced players might find Pathfinders difficult to play against but just saying there are solutions to counter them. It is up to the user if they want to learn or not. Please don’t hate me lol. 