Wouldn’t it be fair and more clear for everyone if we would have a sports league system? The bottom 2 of bracket one demote en the top 2 of bracket two promote. Could very well be that the number 3 in bracket two has more points than for example the number 7 in bracket one. However, since they are in a different (lower) league, this is unimportant for promotion, just like in a football competition (European football of course).
On a side note: I would be much more interested in knowing how many battles there are left on our opponents side, towards the end of the day.
still i would feel bad about limiting guilds advancement to just one bracket per week, pretty unfair considering the first week bracket setup (and all the following weeks so far) was decided by unknown factors;
plus all the guilds who join guild war first time or after a break - it would take them unfairly too long to advance despite their actual gw strength and performance
Marvels solution seems very reasonable and very easy to implement.
As for not allowing guilds to jump 2 brackets at once? Well its still better then not knowning will you jump at all. If a guild performs well, it will climb with 100% certainties, just a bit slower.
I joined a casual guild this week that is in Bracket 13. I facerolled every match. It wasn’t even funny how easy and fast each match was despite using a 4-color team. However, when I was in a Bracket 1 team, every battle was a chore because of massive stats and cheese defenses like fully traited DK/Famine/Death/Famine or FG/Kerberos.
So, they will surely have to design a system that looks at more than just pure points. The effort I expended yesterday was tiny compared to what was needed in Bracket 1.
if the brackets were settled purely based on points, the effort you have to do at bracket 1 would drop (since there would be more or less always some weaker guild in)
why do you think it is a bad thing?
id accept either system
desicded by purely points
decided by points but advance up/down only two first/last guilds from the bracket
none is perfect but both are better then the current
Why should any team in Bracket 1 get to faceroll a weak team? Bracket 1 should be a bloody brawl filled with the highest level of competition. I mean they are the only ones illegible for the juiciest rewards. It should only include the people that had the hardest fights.
Don’t get me wrong. Whatever magical hoodoo formula they are using right now isn’t working well. We can see that by observing the Match Masters situation.
I think Marvel’s suggestion is the best one offered so far. If a lower guild really has the chops to compete at a high level, they would rise in that system. It would just be a progression.
I just don’t understand why the formula is so secretive? What kind of abuse that a guild or player would do if they know this secret formula? Okay it’s not decided by points only but what else? I mean, the last 2 weeks promotion/degradation just don’t make any sense to me. I’m confused.
I think it’s quite obvious why they won’t go public with the factors and especially not the algorithm - they know it can be easily exploited. It’s a big weakness, and I hope that they can create something that doesn’t need to be in secret
Yea, I tend to prefer transparency when it comes to scoring in any competition.
So, let’s say one factor is player level of the defense team. So, wins against beefy level 1,000 players are weighted more than wins against level 200 players. If people knew that, highly competitive guilds would start only getting 1,000 level players.
Of course, that’s just an example of something they could be considering. I obviously have no clue what factors they are actually using. My only point is that I can imagine that most of those factors could be manipulated by highly motivated guilds that want to win the top rewards. Clearly, the devs don’t want that to happen.
Right or wrong, keeping the formula hidden will anger and frustrate people that want to make sure demotion and promotion in GW is fair. You can’t double check a formula you can’t see.
Just to reiterate what I mentioned to you on discord last night, what do these broad general statements mean?
Do guilds get bonus points based on how old the guild is, total trophies, VIP status, etc.? What non-GW factors are affecting GW rankings, and further what reason is there for anything outside of the competition to affect it’s result now that the initial seedings are done?
The other significant issue is the timing of scoring, and whether everything is counted equally or if there are penalties for playing later. If you play late on Sunday, does your score get counted for less? And if so, why, since Sirrian indicated that they changed the daily play requirement so those with different schedules could still play.
As for a refusal to disclose how it works, the fear of POTENTIAL exploits is irrelevant now given the REALITY of constant bugs, incorrect calculations, and general player mistrust of this system which has been proven to be significantly broken. Regaining that trust requires changing that decision in light of ACTUAL events, and being more transparent with us.
the pity lies in the fact they developed a bracketing system that is exploitable, it shouldnt be to begin with
usually clear rules in any competiotion are made the way to be not exploitable
i hope they will just change into the system that is not exploitable and make the rules clear
other solution would be to keep bracketing system a mistery but - instead - remove all ties of bracketing system from the rewarding system and make the rewarding system clear. if we would fight guilds according to the brackets (that ensuring we get the proper backet-tied fights difficulty) but get rewarded regardless to our brackets (by clear criteria) it would also be fine
This couldn’t work. There would be more guilds competing to enter certain brackets then there would be places (only maybe 3 guilds would drop from bracket X while 5 guilds would be eligible to join bracket X). With marvels system number of guilds shifted sorts out evenly.
well, im not a mathematician but i think with some extra rules to address that it could work?
they wouldnt have to jump that high from one bracket as the maximum offered, they could be compared with other guilds (gw points) that are eligible to jump there before the decision is made
I mean is it that hard to describe things that factor in this bracket movement? Maybe like, Okay guys here’s what factors for bracket movement:
Total GW points
Strength of bracket
Number of daily wins
Number of total trophy
Average players level
Age of the guild
Number of Famine used in defense
etc etc
No need to go into numbers/algorithm. And still, I can’t imagine what kind of abuse a guild/player would do if they know what factors in this bracket movement.
Let me respectfully reiterate what @Darkness said and asked.
Nothing, and I mean literally nothing, in your post explains what happened this past week to Unrepentant and Hoguns. Your post talks about promotions and demotions when two teams in DIFFERENT brackets are compared.
In this case, Match Masters, who finished 10th in Bracket 1 (two weeks in a row even), stayed in Bracket 1 while Unrepentant and Hoguns, who finished 5th and 6th respectively, got demoted. Somebody needs to REALLY explain how this can happen because as it sits right now, there’s no reason to really try in Guild Wars if the promotion/demotion criteria are this flawed.
I’ve said this before and I’ll say this again - the development team’s worries about the system being exploited are eventually going to be moot. If this is the way the system is “supposed” to work then it isn’t WORTH exploiting.
One issue with “hidden” criteria is once someone figures it out (and someone Always will) they will be in the sole position to exploit it to make sure they stay on top.
