Well @EricBLivingston since you are unwilling to see my point we must agree to disagree… That said ill leave you with this…
If. GW. Isn’t. Fun. Simply. Abstain.
Vangor out
Well, sure this is what I’ve been saying - the core of the argument is subjective. You like the system as it is, and I don’t lol. We both have reasons for why we like or dislike it. At the end of the day, it’ll be up to the devs to work out the system that benefits them the most. The optimal solution would be pareto-optimal, in that it should benefit the most players possible without generating any negative effects for any. GW is currently not pareto-optimal at all, because while it benefits some, it also causes distress and angst for others. That’s not an efficient or really desired solution for the devs.
From an economic standpoint, if you think about two outcomes:
- GW that no players absolutely love, most think it’s “ok”, and no one hates
- GW that few players absolutely love, some think it’s “ok”, but some absolutely hate.
The polarization of option #2 is not good for most games, as it can cause the “haters” to be a vocal group that winds up causing dissent, creating a toxic environment, spending no money on the game, and ultimately eroding the player base through rage-quits and just getting tired or fed up, etc. I’ve seen MMOs go this route, where fewer and fewer love it more and more, isolating the game into a tighter and tighter niche of die-hard “lovers” who ultimately can’t sustain the game and the whole thing flops.
Better to have fewer “lovers”, a very wide base of “likers” and no “haters” than a small group of “lovers” and a growing group of “haters” in my opinion.
From a GW standpoint, they’d be well-served to create a system that didn’t piss anyone off, and that most people enjoyed. And yes, this might create a “blander” experience for the die-hards who want the nail-biting intense, all-or-nothing stuff, but that’s what “mass appeal” is all about really lol.
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The reason for so much DM and Devour on defense is that even if you kill 1 Troop, you cost points to the attacker.
I think the progressing points system is OK, but needs a lower rate of progression.
From
50, 100, 200, 400, 750 points.
To something more like
100, 200, 300, 400, 500
That seems like a better progression to me. The battles are still escalating, but it’s not the end of the world if you lose a fight. You just lose 500 plus modifiers.
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If they are recasting what you are saying so that it sounds more ridiculous, then maybe look at what you are saying and figure out that already sounds ridiculous.
You are right on one point though. If the first battle against a soldier is just as hard as the 5th fight against a champion or paragon, then the sentinel bonuses aren’t doing enough to make the champions/paragons worth the extra points. Maybe the devs need to buff champion’s and paragon’s bonuses from underling’s sentinels?
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I see where you are coming from. If I were to change anything, then win or lose you move on to the next fight. that way even if you go 1 and 4 only defeating the paragon, you still can get half of the day’s total points. Losing to a soldier or vanguard shouldn’t cost you the chance to fight the paragon and earn those points.
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You’re so right. The same “lovers” (or “fanboys”) posted exactly the same answer in every “GW-is-not-fun” topics… Can we agree that it’s the first time that so much unhappiness is due to one patch?
About dollars, I really hope that these “lovers” are as active with their credit card than on this forum… 
Because there is something that it’s sure: players leaving the game will never give any dollars to the game. So yeah “lovers” can continue with their “if you’re not happy leave the game” attitude, but be sure that they’re not helping devs.
About the “If you don’t like GW, don’t play it”: it’s not acceptable. GW was a promise to give a new breath to this game and what we get: a more toxic PVP mode. Devs talked about it since one year and it can be disappointing for some (a lot of?) players to have waited one full year about a feature which should not concerned them.
For the idea to reduce the gap of points, it seems obvious that this gap currently brings a lot of frustration to players (with players leaving guilds/game because of their poor performance).
This idea was already proposed but as far as I know, no devs gave us any answer… so it seems not an issue for them. In fact, we don’t have any feedbacks about GW from the devs…
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- We don’t really know the number of posters on this forum to active players. I can reasonably guess around 2-4k active players on the X1 console per single X1 poster here. So the sample size is to small to know any real direction of anything.
- We don’t know how many new players have recently joined the Game. As a result of GW (or not).
- We don’t what the developers are doing to actually alter Guild Wars. (besides patching bugs)
- We don’t know the number of players that have left specifically due to GW. (not burnout)
- We don’t know much, nor is it really their job to share most of this…
I do think some kind of information on #3 entitled “Preview of Upcoming Changes to Guild Wars” from Sirrian himself might go a long way to help with this torrent of posts here and other threads.
How is GW is joyless? 
The same “whiners” have spun up about four dozen threads about what they dislike about GW. They keep repeating it ad nauseum. They pile into threads not about it to complain. It’s really obnoxious how much the haters have tried to cram their opinions down the throats of everyone and dominate the forums to the point where nothing else can be discussed. Some of us feel obligated to offer a contrary voice at all of these moments.
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How much “whiners” do you need to understand that GW has some deep issues:
Another joyless GW day ruined in battle #1 (EricBLivingston)
In 3 weeks of GW we've had 3 members quit the game permanently (Ariel)
And new week in GW and what do we have --- Famine again (Taisiakat)
GW First week feedback (Ssazix)
If this game was a food, it would be hot dogs (JasonAshcroft)
You’re one of the most active “lovers” saying always the same thing so I think it’s quite ironic to say that ;-).
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Im nonplussed. I certainly don’t hate it, any new content is always welcomed. But I don’t love it. either In fact, I’m not even sure that I actually ‘get it’. (It being the scoring/rewards/incentive/overall point! - but ill deal with that another day).
What I do dig about it though, is that it strongly encourages one to try different troops - mix it up and try different things. Which is Great! However, thats kinda what the daily tasks are asking me to do too. (except they keep asking me to to pick 3 from Adana and 3 from Khaziel, and upgrade a [already fully maxed] kingdom).
My point- obscured by my ramblings - is that the main attraction, for me, about GW could easily be met by fixing the daily tasks. i.e asking for something other than Adana or Khaziel (ps4): Unfortunatly I suspect they will eventually get rid of the daily tasks on console. Leaving just GW and PVP - not a terrible thing, but 300 fights against Valk, Justice, Mab will do remarkable things to the attraction/replayability of the game.
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You literally just proved my point. You just linked a half dozen different threads from the same people complaining constantly about the same thing across all the threads. Thanks.
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Whether it’s people whining about things I agree with, or people whining about things I think is ridiculous, I just wish they would reuse the existing threads. We don’t need a dozen different threads about the same topic, with re-posts of everybody’s opinions in each. I’m starting to think some moderation would really make this place more enjoyable…
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It should remain there was a small post on this topic, Without a timetable the order is:
- Move PC to Unity
- Move Mobile to Unity
- Bring Tasks over to PC/Mobile
- Ensure every player enjoys their 30 construct battles per week. /s
AND
4b. Re examine Tasks for Fun/Variety/Rewards (100% speculation NOT confirmed)
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You seem puzzled that the small number of people active on the forum would wish to voice views (both positive and negative) about the one single big thing happening in the game currently? Yes it’s getting tiresome… but…
People are hugely invested into this game, in time and sometimes cash, and wouldn’t be here on the forum talking about it if didn’t stir passions. Life is too short and full to waste time arguing about something you don’t care about.
GW has happened and is changing the game experience; not everyone is liking it so far and this is the only place to really air views. What did you think would happen here?
Badging people into ‘lovers’, ‘haters’ or ‘whiners’ is both simplistic and demeaning. Let’s not stoop to that.
EDIT: I do agree that keeping it to a smaller number of threads would make life easier, and the rants easier to avoid for those who don’t want to see them. I also agree that bringing GW rants into other topics is also unhelpful (and kinda against the rules)… but let’s not rubbish people for raising inconsistencies or sharing their feelings about it in the right way.
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To be clear, my complaint was specifically about the fact that every day a new thread appears re-hashing what’s already been said, then the same people say the same things in it. That’s exactly what this thread is. It’s no different from the other half dozen threads Turin linked. Normally, someone like you would try to prevent that.
I have no problems with people voicing their opinions. I also get why they are. That’s fine. I happen to disagree, so we debate. That’s fine. The issue is with people doing it ad nauseum to the point where nothing else can be discussed. It’s like the forums have been taken hostage.
Lo’ and behold, what do I awake to: Two new threads complaining about GW stuff that’s already been discussed!
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So much this.
Discussion and debate is fine. But, every single person that hates GW doesn’t need to start an individual rant topic. I wish people would add their rants to the myriad of threads already open on the topic. Unfortunately, I’m not sure if mods on Discourse forums can merge one topic into another.
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If they did merge it would be longer than the spoiler thread… 
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Here’s a thought: Why doesn’t someone that’s dissatisfied with the current design start an “Master Guild Wars Complaints Thread” that bullets out all of the complaints and possible solutions. If you want the devs to make changes then that’s surely more effective than scattering discussion acros a few dozen threads that largely say the same thing.
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