2.1 Preview - Guilds

If less than 2% of the total playerbase is here, though, I really don’t see how this economy rework translates into actual purchases, which makes this line of reasoning all the more puzzling to me. Are the players at the top about to get their resource gains severely cut expected to be the ones to fork out the money? Doesn’t really make sense. Anyone having reached this point is spending money simply because they want to, and this kind of change is more likely to have the reverse effect.

I want to give the devs my money, a reasonable measured amount at a time, for rewards that actually matter. Right now the only two main things that would even been on the radar to purchase would be a gambling currency (gems) or the main prize obtained from said gambling currency (the new legendary distribution model, at 50 bucks every few weeks). Even if I were willing to occasionally do this in the past while up and coming, how could I justify this now, when the only reason I would even need to make said purchases is because they made them impossible to obtain naturally at a rate close to 100% within in a reasonable time, and they close the only window to target them way too quickly after their release.

As it stands, the new model will be have a soft cap (with subsequent VERY steep drop off) on the amount of gems and keys available each week to a given player, after which the only way to obtain either are the very worst game modes (Arena, Treasure Hunt) and in nearly insignificant quantities, even compared to the new payouts. Unless you count raw glory to glory chest conversion, which is one of the most abysmal conversion ratios in the game, requiring at least 3-4 PvP matches for a single glory key and something I wouldn’t even consider unless I hit a five-digit stockpile.

It just seems discordant design to me. Two patches ago they added PvP ladder, which incentivized playing far beyond the point of burnout for tiny extra bonues, now they are basally devaluing significant rewards from playing PvP far, far below the point where you’d even hit top 1000 on the ladder.

Another thing I also don’t get is how easily I can get to the 500k mark within my own guild, apparently being in the top 2% bracket with my guild, and the top 1% bracket as an individual player, yet somehow 15000+ people that are routinely above me on the PvP ladder every week are not. Of the total gold I earn every week, only about 15% of it comes from VIP rewards (2.0 > 2.5 gold modifier for PvP, which makes up about 60-65% of my weekly gold earnings), so I doubt its from pay boosted features. Are there thousands/tens of thousands of people capable of easily earning 300k+ weekly, just spread super thin amongst the various guild categories?

Okay, rant over.

5 Likes

Unfortunately, they will never fully lift the gold cap. Otherwise, you could make millions per day…

I get mixed up too! Every time I see @CatalinM I get confused about what I’ve said, or what people have responded to. I’ve thought about changing multiple times, but inertia prevails.

I guess that is fair, but I still think they need a buff, at least they will be giving seals now.

When I talked about “this system” I was talking about the old system (2.0.1 and before).
And I said that because last sunday I checked the gem discount with an envy to give to devs some dollars. But when you have 10k gems to you really need 1.5k? No. So I didn’t give anything. But if my stock was 2k gems, maybe I will have bought something.
Maybe I generalize my case a little bit :stuck_out_tongue: .

I also want to give some dollars to support this game but for something that I don’t have like what I already in the past:

1 Like

I see a few major outstanding questions that @Sirrian may be inclined to answer:

  1. There’s no limit on how we earn Seals, just on the total Seal, right? (E.g., we can grind PvP all the way to 1500 on Day 1 if we want.)
  2. Can we get a better sense of the reduction in resources in terms of Gems and Glory Keys, as opposed to a blended resource rate with some fuzzy math on the value of a stat bonus (that may not matter much given PvP score will rise and we’ll fight others with these stat bonuses)?
  3. How do Chest upgrades work, time-wise? If a guild finally hits 45k seals on Sunday night, does that mean they have only a few hours to use their keys before the weekly reset?
  4. It seems like the top guilds are now going to have a lot of excess Gold every week (and will continue to have excess Souls). Gold has been mostly answered, but what about Souls?
  5. Are there plans to buff Arena and/or Treasure Hunt to keep them in line with the resource gains in PvP, and so there’s some incentive to play them to gain Seals (and more generally)? It seems like Treasure Hunt is good for lower level players, but not higher level players, and Arena is generally not useful.
6 Likes

The numbers and graphs put forth make it look good at a glance, but on further examination it is pretty clear the people getting less stuff that actually matters extends far below the top 0.17%. Isn’t that the very definition of sugar coating?

For anyone in the range getting “nerfed”, it isn’t really fair to assign a gem value to things like gold keys, souls, treasure maps, or even skill bonuses (except the aforementioned tribute chance increase, which can equate to gems) all of which do nothing to get newly released troops and keep your collection full, or move you toward a full collection/fully ascended/fully traited, which are pretty much the core objectives of the game. Calling it a 27% drop and only for 0.17% of the players is therefore disingenuous when it is more likely to be an 80%+ drop for this group of players (not to mention, a gains cap added), and still an overall drop extending at least to a few percent of the playerbase, including my own, casual paced guild (classed as “active mid-range” per your graphs).

Overall, I hope this patch is coming sooner than later, so I can give more accurate feedback based on actual numbers. While you’ve been forthcoming a lot of the features, the amount of relative “stuff that matters” (eg., things that can earn you a troop, specifically, one you actually need to collect/ascend) has left to nothing but wild speculation based on the very small numbers shown in the video.

Moving forward there are a few things I think would benefit everyone:

  • A way to earn gems and keys on the personal level at a semi-reasonable rate that does not have a weekly cap, preferably one that actually uses the core mechanics of the game like troops you have unlocked and traited, skill bonuses, etc (ie., not arena, and NOT treasure hunt).

  • An outlet for gold for the top players. This is less of a personal concern, since I’m in a casual guild where I can go go above (or below) 500k in a week without locking other players out from donating (or getting kicked), but the new system seems to severely devalue gold to the point where it is about to be retired to the pool of “useless” resources for these players. Especially since this is the primary resource gained from PvP, and PvP is generally the mode of choice for these 1%'ers.

  • A way for newer guilds to “catch up”. In the new system, a newly formed, even highly organized guild maxing out their donations every week is still going to run into a wall in terms of their progression. Even if the individual members in a new guild themselves were able to donate more than, say, the current fastest donating guild in the the game, they will be permanently behind them in terms of bonuses until both hit the cap. Likewise, (and I’m basing this on the numbers in the video, which might not be final), it looks like the amount of max exp that can be meted out to each statue looks very low compared to currently, meaning an established, slower guild will be ahead of a newer, highly organized guild in terms of bonuses… well, pretty much always. It looks like you would always get (task level + 1) exp for finishing a given task, a total of 78 or 91 exp available weekly (depending on if the 12/12 task is another level to be completed, or an indicator that the task arc is complete). The exp per needed for a statue level, meanwhile, increases, and at the levels shown in the video, it would already take two weeks of maxing out a task for a single statue level. With my own long time casual guild having 75 of every mastery, most of this coming in the last few months, it would take a new, organized guild over a year for just the climb between levels 50 and 75, in a best-case scenario where they are maxing every week.

  • A way for new players to catch up. This goes hand in hand with my previous concerns - a newer player, no matter how much they play, even one that gets in a guild maxing all tasks and putting any reasonable amount of real money into the game is going to take far, far longer to complete their collection than currently, with no way to significantly accelerate their gains no matter how much they play. This may be closer to the progression than was actually intended, but it doesn’t change the fact that anyone in this same position starting just a couple months earlier would be in a much more favorable position now. This reminds me all too much of my original experience with the game, during the time when everything cost gold and I didn’t have strong enough teams to make PvP reliable, which made my ability to actually progress in the game non-existent (time spent in game was largely irrelevant to actual progress made) and caused me to drop the game entirely until the gold costs were removed.

  • A better way to target troops, other than waiting half a year for an event to roll around. Loss of resources doesn’t really matter much if you can smartly spend them, but when the only way to get things is to cast a wide net and hope for the best, they are kinda necessary. Simply a way to draw troops from a pool the size of a single kingdom of any rarity at any week of the year, even at an increased cost of the currently offered event keys, would be a huge improvement here. I wouldn’t need everything right when it releases if it wasn’t such a crapshoot/long wait to get them through random drops, a problem that only gets worse every month as new troops are added to the pool.

  • A little bit of wiggle room on getting that top tier guild seal chest. Already been brought up by a bunch of other people, but the top chest should probably be about 40k, which would still require 90% full contribution to hit, allowing someone in a top guild to possibly take a break without getting kicked.

And my personal wish list:

  • A paid subscription service that scales rewards based on what you actually earn. Yes, bringing this up again.

  • Something to do with souls after leveling all troops.

  • Something to do with maps that isn’t boring (or a bulk use option).

  • Something to do with greater traitstones.

  • Offer legendary event troops again as glory purchases, limit 1 per week, at 2000+ glory. I can spend additional resources to get them to mythic at my own pace.

  • Bring back old event weapons. Preferably glory purchases if they are in addition to the normal glory packs, reasonable $5 cash purchase would be acceptable.

  • VIP rewards that are actually relevant at end game (especially since gold is about to be devalued).

10 Likes

totally
legitimately
deniably
reluctantly

" ; "

Isnt it amazing how the people that get a few hundred dollars of free loot per week complain. Then write a short story about their complaints.

Casuals need more freebies, top guilds (which I’m in) need much less. End of story.

7 Likes

Would it really be much more than what you can do right now in pvp? I doubt it. But maybe I am missing some methods. You would also lose out on quite a bit of the other rewards for taking much longer each game. Casting alchemist 20 times takes some time.

I would just like slower teams to be a bit more viable - and teams that slow you down be less frustrating, because at least you might get a little bit more gold in the end.

Also gold has been devalued quite a bit anyways, so I dont see the harm in introducing a new way to gain it (slightly?) faster than what is now possible - while losing other rewards like glory and tratstones.

I don’t have a problem in any way with them lifting the gold cap, I just strongly doubt that they will ever do it. If they do, however, I’ll PM you with a method to make millions! (You’ll be kicking yourself for not thinking of it first :smile:)

But some of the people refuting the changes have stated that they are in “casual” guilds. I am in a “top” guild, though, so I suppose that’s applicable if it was directed at me. As far as the short stories, I wasn’t aware that an opinion on an open forum had a character count. I’ll try and keep it simple for you next time.

1 Like

Casuals get more. And brevity is next to godliness.

2 Likes

Why do casual players need more?
Play less get more lol
Put in the time get more rewards :kissing_smiling_eyes:

4 Likes

Okay - 1:30am here - and trying to get some very important work finished, but I’ll quickly answer some of those questions @Studs:

1. There’s no limit on how we earn Seals, just on the total Seal, right?
Correct… you can earn them all with PvP, or all with Treasure Hunt… we set them up with values to appeal to a number of different play styles, based on play patterns of those people, so that a moderately active player has a good shot at the 1500 every week.

2. Can we get a better sense of the reduction in resources in terms of Gems and Glory Keys
Yes - very happy to share the entire amount of stuff you can now net in a single week from your guild
TASKS: 590 Gems, 42 Event Keys, 320 Glory, 64 Gem Keys, 236 Glory Keys, 5900 Souls, 2200 Gold Keys, 9 Maps
SEALS: 75 Guild Keys
STATUE BONUSES: +50% XP, +6 Map Turns, +6% Tribute Chance, +10% Tribute Amount, +50% Souls, +2 Glory per PvP Battle
SKILL BONUS (7d): +8 Armor, +8 Life, +3 Attack, +2 Magic
NEW LEAGUES: Extra Gold Bonus (don’t have the numbers nearby)

3. How do Chest upgrades work, time-wise?
They reset weekly. So if you miss the window between final upgrade & weekly reset, you waituntil next week

** 4. It seems like the top guilds are now going to have a lot of excess Gold **
True for a couple of guilds, but we have some plans for that once we see the new system in action

5. Are there plans to buff Arena and/or Treasure Hunt
Not before we see the new system in action. But we WILL be monitoring them. Both of these modes are still great for new players… the challenge is to buff them for end-game top-guild players so it scales to meet their requirements WITHOUT throwing massive amounts of rewards at lower level players. That’s some tricky design and math, and I think we’d be unwise to touch this until 2.1.5

17 Likes

And the release is? Today? :smiley:

You misspelled less.

2 Likes

Good question!
Because I believe they see a vast gap between themselves and end-game players, and there is no nice ramp up towards that point. You can see in those original graphs… guild rewards are stingy and underwhelming until you get in a good guild and then BAM! King of the world!

We want that reward graph to ramp up in a smoother fashion, so they’re rewarded commensurate with extra effort as they play more. It will also promote the growth of mid-tier guilds, where rewards have been too low to make players feel any connection

9 Likes

I’m in the top xbox guild and thus seems fine to me.

I thought the changes were much more reasonable than I was expecting

2 Likes