# Worst Thing That's Ever Happened to Game **URL:** \ **Category:** Gameplay Chat (PC/Mobile)\ **Created:** [August 31, 2016, 3:17pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worst-thing-thats-ever-happened-to-game/11691 "2016-08-31T15:17:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![psychetruth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@psychetruth](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/psychetruth)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 3:17pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worst-thing-thats-ever-happened-to-game/11691/1 "2016-08-31T15:17:14Z")
I just have to say that mana denial cards are the WORST thing that has ever happened to this game. They are literally the very definition frustrating. Look it up in the dictionary; `frus·trate` ˈfrəstrāt/ Verb 1. prevent (a plan or attempted action) from progressing, succeeding, or being fulfilled. I just want to point out that it’s 100 percent predictable that if you make cards that are the very definition of “frustrating” that it’s not going to be fun for players. And these cards are now completely dominating the meta-game; at least at the high level end-game. Tard\_Carnival made a post discussing this and said, **_“Fights_** **_involving Mantikhorvash proved easy yet tedious, with constant yet_** **_unthreatening setbacks. A combination of Mab’s control-denying third trait and_** **_Manticore’s inexplicably low casting cost meant dealing with prolonged periods_** **_of boredom and the frustration of taking a futile turn.”_** And I have to agree with this! – Manicure, Emperor Khorvash, Famine are the big three. Spirit Fox, Morthani’s Will, Psion are also potentially annoying and frustrating. From what I can tell this is what happened; 1. The devs have started introducing more and more powerful cards to drive income on chest spending. These more powerful cards include the apocalyptic cards and more recently new weekly legendries. It probably started with The Great Maw. 2. These new overpowering cards needed to be nerfed but nerfing something you already gave a player tends to upset them. So instead of nerfing and balancing the game, the devs started introducing “counter cards”. 3. Counter cards started being mana denial cards. It started with spirit fox but he was little too weak. 4. Counter cards were given empowered so they start with full mana or have low mana cost. 5. New status effects are added to the game as further counters such as web and stun. 6. Manicore and Emperor Khovash introduced as further counter-cards. 7. Counter cards are now completely dominating the meta-game. 8. Devs are continuing to introduce new overpowered cards to drive chest spending. This is vicious cycle and I just see this problem getting worse. More overpowered cards and then more frustrating counter cards. Overpowered cards just need to be balanced and nerfed instead introducing more cards that meet the definition of frustration. I’ve played this game every day for almost two years and at this point I’ve played more 1000 hours but I am actually starting to lose interest at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 3:33pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worst-thing-thats-ever-happened-to-game/11691/2 "2016-08-31T15:33:40Z")
While I sympathize with your plight, I’m curious what discussion you expect to foster that isn’t a rehash of the other threads on this topic. I suggest responses go to the following thread: > [@I conducted a scientific study on the state of current endgame meta](http://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469): > > Hypothesis: Excessive exposure to control-denying play elements leads to player disengagement and dissatisfaction in games. Experiment: 147 games played over Monday and Tuesday, resulting in 146 wins and 1 loss. Data: Manticore use on endgame defense teams is borderline ubiquitous. At one point, user had three fights in a row with a lineup of Khorvash Mab Valkyrie Manticore. Second most common team theme was Multi-Horsemen, which also proved most challenging. Player would experience his only … ---
**Author:** ![Sirrian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/sirrian/32/35758_2.png) [@Sirrian](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Sirrian)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 4:16pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worst-thing-thats-ever-happened-to-game/11691/3 "2016-08-31T16:16:04Z")
> [@psychetruth](#): > > Devs are continuing to introduce new overpowered cards to drive chestspending. That’s really not how we approach game design - if our primary goal was to drive spending we would have implemented an energy mechanic. 😛 But that aside, we’ve been cooking up a couple of ideas to keep things fresh for end-game players… here’s an example: What if revenges were fought against an enemy’s INVADE team rather than his defense, and were worth a little bit more than they currently are… it’s a fine line to walk, because if revenges are too good then everybody just puts a Peasant on defense! But I just thought I’d mention that we ARE looking at this end game problem of people wanting to put not the strongest but the _griefiest_ team on defense to get people to skip. ---
**Author:** ![Robert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/robert/32/12802_2.png) [@Robert](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Robert)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 4:21pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worst-thing-thats-ever-happened-to-game/11691/4 "2016-08-31T16:21:23Z")
Revenge matches should be against the invade team. How about a troop that has a trait for x3 or x5 damage against mana burn troops ---
**Author:** ![therealwetwilly](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/therealwetwilly/32/4178_2.png) [@therealwetwilly](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/therealwetwilly)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 4:22pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worst-thing-thats-ever-happened-to-game/11691/5 "2016-08-31T16:22:50Z")
I hope you can also detract the percentage in which players opt for the 2trophy difficulty when theres a manticore (combo) in the 3trophy slot. Tbh i like the movement a card like manticore brings, sure enough this community is adult enough, maybe not all that patient, cards will get buffed/nerfed eventually. Cant make everyone happy all the time. ---
**Author:** ![therealwetwilly](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/therealwetwilly/32/4178_2.png) [@therealwetwilly](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/therealwetwilly)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 4:23pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worst-thing-thats-ever-happened-to-game/11691/6 "2016-08-31T16:23:37Z")
> [@Sirrian](#): > > What if revenges were fought against an enemy’s INVADE team rather than his defense And invading traits count as defense traits as well, i see no reason to make 2 seperate traits for it nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worst-thing-thats-ever-happened-to-game/11691/7 "2016-08-31T16:25:13Z")
“_ **All allies gain X armor when defending in PVP** _” is a worthless trait anymore. Just get rid of it. ---
**Author:** ![AeroCloud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d26b3c/32.png) [@AeroCloud](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/AeroCloud)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 4:26pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worst-thing-thats-ever-happened-to-game/11691/8 "2016-08-31T16:26:48Z")
I started losing interest after new PvP version, along with MAW/MAB and the mythics. I’ve stopped playing PvP and now I just play the basic game, and have more fun. PvP used to be fun, but since the update to version 2.0, I have not played as much. Might just be me, but I had spent money in the past (VIP 5), but do not see myself spending another cent on this game where it is headed. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 4:29pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worst-thing-thats-ever-happened-to-game/11691/9 "2016-08-31T16:29:03Z")
The real problem is that PVP ranking is based almost exclusively on QUANTITY of wins and not QUALITY. People aren’t skipping “hard” matches, they’re skipping frustrating matches, primarily because they take too long. I would love to see them lessen the dependence on playing tons of short matches. The top players are actually quitting out of dozens of matches to increase speed - a player should NEVER benefit from a forfeit. ---
**Author:** ![Rickygervais](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@Rickygervais](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rickygervais)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 4:31pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worst-thing-thats-ever-happened-to-game/11691/10 "2016-08-31T16:31:57Z")
> [@Sirrian](#): > > if our primary goal was to drive spending we would have implemented an energy mechanic. 😛 Don’t you dare 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Annaerith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/annaerith/32/13840_2.png) [@Annaerith](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Annaerith)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 4:32pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worst-thing-thats-ever-happened-to-game/11691/11 "2016-08-31T16:32:11Z")
i dont mind them benefitting from quitting. i dont do that myself but if the match takes too long then why not let them do it? i liked Gow mmostly for the short fights, do we go into a direction that the fights suppose to actually take longer and longer? ---
**Author:** ![Robert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/robert/32/12802_2.png) [@Robert](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Robert)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worst-thing-thats-ever-happened-to-game/11691/12 "2016-08-31T16:33:20Z")
I cant see a feasible solution to that. Will turn too many players away ---
**Author:** ![Annaerith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/annaerith/32/13840_2.png) [@Annaerith](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Annaerith)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worst-thing-thats-ever-happened-to-game/11691/13 "2016-08-31T16:33:28Z")
> [@Sirrian](#): > > if our primary goal was to drive spending we would have implemented an energy mechanic. 😛 please never, that would be the end of my gow gaming U\_U ---
**Author:** ![Fifthelement](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/fifthelement/32/8383_2.png) [@Fifthelement](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Fifthelement)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worst-thing-thats-ever-happened-to-game/11691/14 "2016-08-31T16:33:34Z")
> [@htismaqe](#): > > People aren’t skipping “hard” matches, they’re skipping frustrating matches, primarily because they take too long. that is true, but at the same time lets be honest, with the current state of AI, there is no “hard” / difficult matches, there are the games that go as planned, games that AI gets insane RNG with cascades (those you might lose), and the manticore games, which like you said, people skip because of the time they’d waste. Love the idea with revenges @Sirrian . also > [@htismaqe](#): > > The top players are actually quitting out of dozens of matches to increase speed - a player should NEVER benefit from a forfeit. I agree, some more balancing of the points for a lost match could fix it. Not enough for the disconnects to make people quit pvp, but bit more tuned, so that the forfeiting or alt/f4’ing on purpose won’t be benefitial. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worst-thing-thats-ever-happened-to-game/11691/15 "2016-08-31T16:33:59Z")
That’s the biggest thing holding back innovation, IMO. People EXPECT to win 90% (or more) of their matches in 2 minutes or less. Any mechanic that upsets that immediately mobilizes a lynch mob. Myself, I don’t mind long matches, especially if they’re nail biters. ---
**Author:** ![Annaerith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/annaerith/32/13840_2.png) [@Annaerith](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Annaerith)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 4:36pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worst-thing-thats-ever-happened-to-game/11691/16 "2016-08-31T16:36:25Z")
also as one of few ppl who actually dont use manticore on defense, i would prefer ppl who revenge against me to still fight my defense coz it works better with the ai then my offense XD (defense: maw ik sheggra mercy, invade: maw ik valk mercy) ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 4:36pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worst-thing-thats-ever-happened-to-game/11691/17 "2016-08-31T16:36:32Z")
> [@Fifthelement](#): > > that is true, but at the same time lets be honest, with the current state of AI, there is no “hard” / difficult matches, there are the games that go as planned, games that AI gets insane RNG with cascades (those you might lose), and the manticore games, which like you said, people skip because of the time they’d waste. Yeah, we totally agree. That was kind of my point which is why I put “hard” in quotes. The way I see the difficulty levels for me (I’m just under lvl 650): Guaranteed win \>\>\> Guaranteed win \>\>\> Highly Probably Win unless the AI gets lucky ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 4:36pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worst-thing-thats-ever-happened-to-game/11691/18 "2016-08-31T16:36:58Z")
Same here. 👍 ---
**Author:** ![Annaerith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/annaerith/32/13840_2.png) [@Annaerith](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Annaerith)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 4:38pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worst-thing-thats-ever-happened-to-game/11691/19 "2016-08-31T16:38:54Z")
hmm if i was suppose to fight somebodys invade team while revenging, then i should use my defense team to do that XD i dont know just loose idea, coz it makes me feel defense team become too insignificant if you just take it away giving nothing in return… ---
**Author:** ![Taisiakat](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/taisiakat/32/75810_2.png) [@Taisiakat](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Taisiakat)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 4:45pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worst-thing-thats-ever-happened-to-game/11691/20 "2016-08-31T16:45:57Z")
In Defense of quitting a PVP = I’ve had to because I originally trusted the totals being presented (until I found it was a glitch) and even then sometime I have ended up with a team that has 3x times the stats as me - or I learned the hard way about the Emperor or Bone Dragon) I retreated instead of dealing with the miserable beating. [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worst-thing-thats-ever-happened-to-game/11691.md?page=2)