# Worse than Bone Dragon: The Invisible Threat **URL:** \ **Category:** Uncategorized\ **Created:** [November 17, 2016, 8:43am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worse-than-bone-dragon-the-invisible-threat/15421 "2016-11-17T08:43:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![EternalElder](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/eternalelder/32/11273_2.png) [@EternalElder](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/EternalElder)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 11:34am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worse-than-bone-dragon-the-invisible-threat/15421/105 "2016-11-18T11:34:06Z")
If this secret team is so good, then why aren’t those from Intrim using it in the top of PVP? I didn’t see any Intrim in the top 10. Without Kuro here to support her decision, y’all will drive yourselves nuts debating this thread. Was that the purpose? A final laugh before exiting? We may never know. ---
**Author:** ![KingDonaldTrump](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/kingdonaldtrump/32/13877_2.png) [@KingDonaldTrump](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/KingDonaldTrump)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 11:35am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worse-than-bone-dragon-the-invisible-threat/15421/106 "2016-11-18T11:35:09Z")
Just calculate the number of permutations including repetitions. There are 284 troops, so, 284^4 ---
**Author:** ![Dustin1280](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/dustin1280/32/7970_2.png) [@Dustin1280](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Dustin1280)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 1:02pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worse-than-bone-dragon-the-invisible-threat/15421/107 "2016-11-18T13:02:20Z")
Half of the people that posted in this topic didn’t even CARE what the team was, there are half a dozen uber-teams out there just as effective as one another. I already highlighted why things went wrong in this topic [here](http://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worse-than-bone-dragon-the-invisible-threat/15421/37). The fact that she chose not to share her “uber team” is just a very small part of what is wrong with her initial post and the posts thereafter. Those claiming we are jealous of her super secret team simply do not understand the issues that the majority of us have with the way she posted/presented this topic. ---
**Author:** ![DonBoba](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/donboba/32/25457_2.png) [@DonBoba](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/DonBoba)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 1:27pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worse-than-bone-dragon-the-invisible-threat/15421/108 "2016-11-18T13:27:03Z")
Besides it’s not like other people posting in this topic have problems winning at 95%+ rate. . ---
**Author:** ![Ashasekayi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/ashasekayi/32/61090_2.png) [@Ashasekayi](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Ashasekayi)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 1:56pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worse-than-bone-dragon-the-invisible-threat/15421/109 "2016-11-18T13:56:06Z")
> [@Annaerith](#): > > it was a suggestion to play out of her/his own free will using such or any different variation to raise personal game difficulty Sorry, I misread your post then. I agree that a person can change up invade teams to make games more challenging. A player doesn’t even need to make a complex ritual to accomplish this. If I used my faceroll team for every PVP match, I’d quit too from boredom. To solve that issue, I just avoid overusing that team. Choice is a marvelous thing. ---
**Author:** ![Strat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Strat](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Strat)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 1:59pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worse-than-bone-dragon-the-invisible-threat/15421/110 "2016-11-18T13:59:28Z")
> [@killerman3333](#): > > jokes on you, i am their number one fan. I sure Rick would be very safe in your hands. ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/2/2e701d2af857a135da661291e94b48b7f2ac8cf9.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![efh313](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/efh313/32/34349_2.png) [@efh313](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/efh313)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 2:51pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worse-than-bone-dragon-the-invisible-threat/15421/111 "2016-11-18T14:51:38Z")
To balance out the forum-verse, I created a thread of pure transparency. Come and share your best! > [@GoW Team Build Compendium](http://community.gemsofwar.com/t/looking-for-a-super-team-click-here/15464): > > So, in light of the “Worse Than Bone Dragon” thread, which you can easily find elsewhere, I have decided to start a thread where people who enjoy SHARING their teams may do so. I have always been impressed with the openness and camaraderie of this forum and this is my attempt to create a place where that generosity can be appreciated by new and old players alike. Please share your BEST Teams with the community! (If this is not your style, please respect the thread and don’t troll. Thanks!) To … ---
**Author:** ![Spherix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/spherix/32/2388_2.png) [@Spherix](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Spherix)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 3:01pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worse-than-bone-dragon-the-invisible-threat/15421/112 "2016-11-18T15:01:08Z")
Wow, this thread blew up in no time at all. Looks like it struck a few nerves, and considering the tone of the OP, I guess that’s not surprising. The thing is, the exact team doesn’t matter. I imagine all of people who regularly place near the top of the leaderboards have a similarly powerful team. The important thing is that the strategic depth of the game falls apart if you can safely ignore everything about the other side of the board. That is a problem if the developers want to attract and retain players who aren’t just in it for the slot machine element. Games communicate to the player how they should be played. That’s fundamentally what a game is – a set of rules that result in different outcomes for different actions, some of which are rewards, or “winning”, and others are penalties, or “losing”. Telling someone that they should deliberately perform worse in order to have more fun is telling them they should be playing a different game instead. There’s no problem with imposing your own rules in order to maximize your own fun, but you’re fundamentally playing a different game, even if it’s played using the same equipment, pieces, or software. Some people just find their time is better spent playing a different game entirely, rather than try to shape an existing one into something they enjoy by ignoring its reward structure. It’s the developer’s job to make the game fun – if the player has to limit themselves to enjoy the game, then either the game isn’t suited to them, or the developers are failing at their job. The forums are mostly populated by people who are committed to Gems of War, and want it to continue being a game they enjoy. Whether they’re looking for strategies to maximize their fun, or making suggestions to the developers, they’re trying to avoid the outcome where they decide that their time is better spent playing a different game entirely. @Kurokazna made it clear that she’d reached that point. She realized that GoW wasn’t the game she thought it was. Playing a different team wouldn’t make the situation any better. It’s the fact that such a team is possible, and that the majority of the playerbase purportedly likes it that way, suggests that the developers aren’t likely to really address the core problem, because from their perspective, it’s not really a problem – it’s the nature of the game. Battles are puzzles, and high victory rates are expected. Though apparently Puzzle Quest was different enough for her to still enjoy. The difference may be that it wasn’t built on a micro-transaction, constant flow of new content sort of model. The opening post is far too long, meandering, and patronizing for the point I think she wanted to make. But I don’t think it was a bad point. The game has hundreds of troops, billions of possible teams, and yet most of them don’t matter and don’t see much, if any, use. The game needs strategic depth if it’s going to have any lasting appeal beyond the mindless grinding for power and progression. That’s enough for some people, but not necessarily enough for lots of people who are attracted to the game for other reasons. If they play, feel dissatisfied, and leave without either attracting other new players, or investing money into the game, then they’ve consumed valuable server resources without helping to keep the game alive. It’s in the best interest of the developers, and the other players, for the game to clearly communicate what it is, so that potential players can determine whether it’s something they’ll enjoy for the long term. ---
**Author:** ![Mekkalyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mekkalyn/32/21868_2.png) [@Mekkalyn](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mekkalyn)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 3:07pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worse-than-bone-dragon-the-invisible-threat/15421/113 "2016-11-18T15:07:24Z")
Well said If this were the original post I bet this thread wouldn’t have been so dark. Personally I like quicker games. By quick I mean two minutes or less. I don’t like games that take 5-10 minutes to complete one game, even if you got 100x the rewards. It’s just not fun for me sitting there inside a single match that long. Sometimes I get a bit antsy and just want to move on to the next one. Or I like to squeeze in a quick game while waiting for something or someone and only have a few minutes I can understand why some people wouldn’t agree and would like a longer game reward structure. My biggest problem is lack of diversity in defense (and the horrible meta right now of course). I’m hoping the new events system will fix this. ---
**Author:** ![Razzagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/razzagor/32/50037_2.png) [@Razzagor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Razzagor)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 4:54pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worse-than-bone-dragon-the-invisible-threat/15421/114 "2016-11-18T16:54:41Z")
> [@Spherix](#): > > Some people just find their time is better spent playing a different game entirely, rather than try to shape an existing one into something they enjoy by ignoring its reward structure. I think it’s more about the “full end-game goal” where you are supposed, at some point, to get everything in the game. All troops, fully traited, at max level and then you don’t need to aim at the rewards with the same dedication as before, for some it woudl be quite boring, but for others it would open a lot more flexibility on what they can use to enjoy the game without too much rush. And speaking of “rush”… > [@DonBoba](#): > > I wish to see what Talia would say about this topic xD He would come with something in the lines: “The game is being headed in the wrong direction, it’s a strategy game, not a speed game.” It’s not a bad point when you take into account the model of the game, match-3, but the dinamics involved here are a bit… unique. The game have a great flux of new content, wich is good in general, but as more and more new troops are added this flux also increases the needed resources to finally reach the “full end-game goal”. And it does have a impact on how the progress at lower levels is perceived. While i believe that things are better now we can still imagine that a new player would feel a little overwhelmed, but as said before, things are better now i believe. We have low rarity troops with nice and fun effects across the kingdoms, so maybe a new player that haven’t been “tainted” by the collective bias about perfect teams and relentless progress would find the game very entertaining. This doesn’t mean that the power creep shouldn’t be watched closely, some balance is always required, both positives (buffs) and negatives (nerfs) as well as more gameplay modes (events yay!) to keep things fresh for all players in any level. I think i’m stretching this too much… Well, Spherix, i understand your points and i don’t disagree, but maybe there is more about Kuro’s case and it kinda could be true for many here: - Chasing progress, only, leads to much more burnout. She was at Intrim II, a highly competitive guild wich is centered towards results, while there is nothing wrong with their _modus operandi_, i can wonder if there was space for fun at all, because i believe that outside the game she had her own life to take care of. Yes this game requires grind/dedication, but we are much more responsible for our own happiness (or fun for the matter) than outside factors (people, games…) so changing something about us usually leads to changes in our own world. Maybe she would find what she is looking for in another game, or maybe not if she carries the same behavior that would lead to more burnout. ---
**Author:** ![Spherix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/spherix/32/2388_2.png) [@Spherix](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Spherix)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 1:26pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worse-than-bone-dragon-the-invisible-threat/15421/115 "2016-11-19T13:26:58Z")
I haven’t been here from the beginning, so I don’t know how the game played out early on, but I don’t think the devs intend for players to eventually reach the “full end-game goal” you describe. Not with the rate they release new content, and the amount of effort and investment required to acquire that content and keep up. They’ve made it possible to do so, just barely, if you’re lucky, according to the math one or two people here have posted. But I don’t think they expect most of their players to maintain a complete collection. You’re right that different people approach games with different goals. One person may care more or less about the rewards or how efficiently they play than another. Some people don’t think they care at all, until the feeling that they’re not making any progress starts to inhibit their fun. But I seriously doubt anyone is deliberately losing matches for the pleasure of hearing the defeat music. The game communicates to you what you should be doing by its reward structure. That’s what leads people to look for teams that are reliable, fast, and work well against a variety of enemy teams. In a sense, most players have the same goal: to have fun. How they achieve that goal, and whether the goals the game provides them correspond to their own may vary. Slavishly optimizing your play to maximize rewards isn’t _necessarily_ going to be fun for everyone. Highly competitive people may enjoy the competition itself, without actually enjoying the game, and are probably the people most likely to get burnt out quickly. But I do think that how closely the goals provided by the game line up with your own is a significant factor in whether people will enjoy a game long-term, or whether they eventually feel dissatisfied and quit. @Kurokazna wanted to be challenged, and determined that the game wasn’t designed to challenge her. She didn’t just want to win, and she didn’t want to have to hold back. She didn’t sound burnt out so much as _bored_. Some people here are committed to GoW, so they’re willing to make sacrifices in order to keep enjoying it. She decided it would just be better if she found a different game. ---
**Author:** ![DonBoba](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/donboba/32/25457_2.png) [@DonBoba](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/DonBoba)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 1:33pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worse-than-bone-dragon-the-invisible-threat/15421/116 "2016-11-19T13:33:23Z")
Only way to challenge players is to make gem dropping favor AI (in terms of getting them loads of extra turns). And that wouldn’t be something that everyone would like, would we now? Other then that a player should usually win because of the first turn advantage. . ---
**Author:** ![EternalElder](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/eternalelder/32/11273_2.png) [@EternalElder](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/EternalElder)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 4:17pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worse-than-bone-dragon-the-invisible-threat/15421/117 "2016-11-19T16:17:58Z")
What if the AI had an equal chance on first turn? Roll the dice, flip a coin or RNG. In other words a 50/50 chance to go first. The people that PVP to the top are not going to like this, but it will definitely add to the challenge aspect. If this became a thing, the Devs would need to deal with MMDBBD. Increase mana cost or something. ---
**Author:** ![Razzagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/razzagor/32/50037_2.png) [@Razzagor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Razzagor)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 4:49pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worse-than-bone-dragon-the-invisible-threat/15421/118 "2016-11-19T16:49:48Z")
Personally i reached a sweet spot close to the “full end-game”, not to gloat or anything, having all kingdoms at level ten and five stars except the few ones that are more recent, i still need one copy of legendary cards and one epic or two to max (5 stars) these new kingdoms. This means that most kingdoms have a good number of troops traited and leveled having a good surplus of souls and traitstones of some colors. While this could look like a “boring state” for some players i look at it as an opportunity to relax and be more creative and also have more fun. I don’t have to chase results in pvp as fast as before and move to the next short-term goal like farm traitstones in explore mode to upgrade key/strong troops. I still play explore mode but using more compositions to test things out and see if i can come up with something new. I kinda of worked out a newbie version of the MantiBoreBone team. I will be posting it in the right thread eventually. But while i can’t “imprint” the same perspective/experience on the others i share it as a form of advice i guess. **For those that may burnout after reaching a certain progress too fast, but still are madly in love with the game:** _Take a little break, no need to reach Rank 1 in PVP and get your weekly 1500 seals in day one if you have almost everything done in the game. You may as well spend some time doing other things and coming to GoW from time to time and work on new teams while waiting for the next updates. I’m sure we will have a lot of fun._ ---
**Author:** ![PGSundling](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/pgsundling/32/39480_2.png) [@PGSundling](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/PGSundling)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 1:20pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worse-than-bone-dragon-the-invisible-threat/15421/119 "2016-11-20T13:20:02Z")
I wonder if I’m using the secret team. It takes me 2 minutes, but that’s to hit maximum souls. ---
**Author:** ![PGSundling](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/pgsundling/32/39480_2.png) [@PGSundling](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/PGSundling)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 1:23pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worse-than-bone-dragon-the-invisible-threat/15421/120 "2016-11-20T13:23:21Z")
EK slows that team down, faster with 2 justice ---
**Author:** ![killerman3333](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/killerman3333/32/4068_2.png) [@killerman3333](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/killerman3333)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 1:23pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worse-than-bone-dragon-the-invisible-threat/15421/121 "2016-11-20T13:23:35Z")
Why do people use bone dragon over KoS? ---
**Author:** ![DonBoba](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/donboba/32/25457_2.png) [@DonBoba](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/DonBoba)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 1:48pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worse-than-bone-dragon-the-invisible-threat/15421/122 "2016-11-20T13:48:02Z")
Bone dragon traits \> KoS traits Bone dragon mana cost \> KoS mana cost Number of skulls created BD \> KoS On top of this KoS just makes skulls, bone dragon breaks an enemy armor which is equal to doing 30-60 damage usually. His spell could say deal 50 damage and create a skull for every 3 points of armor you damaged. And oh yeah also gain some armor. ---
**Author:** ![killerman3333](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/killerman3333/32/4068_2.png) [@killerman3333](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/killerman3333)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 2:13pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worse-than-bone-dragon-the-invisible-threat/15421/123 "2016-11-20T14:13:19Z")
> [@DonBoba](#): > > Bone dragon traits \> KoS traits debatable. KoS can summon troops, and has necromancy, gains life for each enemy death. BD immune to poison, decreases 2 points from enemy, freezes enemy > [@DonBoba](#): > > Bone dragon mana cost \> KoS mana cost 14 mana vs 16 mana, so that is a fair point > [@DonBoba](#): > > Number of skulls created BD \> KoS debatable. Note wight makes souls. ---
**Author:** ![wskill](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/wskill/32/1119_2.png) [@wskill](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/wskill)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 2:21pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worse-than-bone-dragon-the-invisible-threat/15421/124 "2016-11-20T14:21:42Z")
Responding from my ps4 here cause i no longer use my pc, im building several quasi thematical teams atm that 100% Kill the whole enemy team while giving refills, or survive long enough to make ppl sur out of time loss on their grind designed not to challenge but utterly irritate unforseeingly. Teams that make ppl think they are easy due to having seemingly low power but the eye betrays. I make sev of these to revolve as i dont want ppl to figure out counters for them that do exist but are very specific. #imsmart #nottelling So the point of this thread eludes me, why give up and away your breadmaker? [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worse-than-bone-dragon-the-invisible-threat/15421.md?page=5) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worse-than-bone-dragon-the-invisible-threat/15421.md?page=7)