# VIP Chest...What do you pull? **URL:** \ **Category:** Gameplay Chat (PlayStation/Xbox)\ **Created:** [August 6, 2016, 4:45pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/vip-chest-what-do-you-pull/10799 "2016-08-06T16:45:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sirrian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/sirrian/32/35758_2.png) [@Sirrian](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Sirrian)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 10:18am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/vip-chest-what-do-you-pull/10799/21 "2016-08-08T10:18:44Z")
While I can’t speak for the _exact_ details of the console server, I’m familiar enough with the codebase to be 100% certain that the chest-opening code on the server (for all versions of the game) is not in anyway connected to information about IP addresses or previous payments. Not saying there might not be an issue there, but if there is, it would more likely be a very rare corner-case kind of bug to do with the pseudo-random number generator giving out a weird series of values. ---
**Author:** ![UKresistance](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/ukresistance/32/7558_2.png) [@UKresistance](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/UKresistance)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 11:22am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/vip-chest-what-do-you-pull/10799/22 "2016-08-08T11:22:03Z")
How is the pseudo rng seeded? Is it seeded once when you buy 50 chests vs seeded each time when you buy a chest at a time? And is a millisecond time stamp used in the seeding? ---
**Author:** ![Sirrian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/sirrian/32/35758_2.png) [@Sirrian](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Sirrian)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 12:27pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/vip-chest-what-do-you-pull/10799/23 "2016-08-08T12:27:28Z")
My understanding is that it is seeded at the start of _any_ server call with a millisecond time stamp based on UTC time (and modified by a salt value uniquely generated for each account on creation). ---
**Author:** ![TaliaParks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/taliaparks/32/11738_2.png) [@TaliaParks](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TaliaParks)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 2:00pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/vip-chest-what-do-you-pull/10799/24 "2016-08-08T14:00:22Z")
@Theicla You on XB1? I’m PS4 and my Event chests are fine (No VIP chest access) ---
**Author:** ![Theicla](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/theicla/32/3624_2.png) [@Theicla](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Theicla)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 4:44pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/vip-chest-what-do-you-pull/10799/25 "2016-08-08T16:44:15Z")
Yes, I’m talking about XB1 in this particular case (I also have an iOS mobile account). @Sirrian Thank you for the info on server calls for RNG seeding. Enjoy glimpsing the magic of how things work under the hood, so to speak. There was a puzzle board match on my console account recently which I intensely regret not capturing a photo of; the gems had fallen into a perfect setup that, with a single match-3, would unleash an absolute maelstrom of total opponent annihilation. I looked at the puzzle and thought, “That’s it, whoever programmed these gameplay algorithms in GoW is a _genius_.” Thank you so much for creating this wonderful game. 😊 @UKresistance If I understand what you’ve asking? There may be an indirect, corroborating evidence that 50 chests appear to be seeded only ‘once’ as a whole at the time you purchase it, rather than for each individual chest in the pack of 50. Back when the 1.085 update went live for the XB1 console and the type of chests switched from 1-key-give-3-troops to 1-key-gives-only-1-item, it became possible to click on a 10 chest or 50 chest pack, and on purchase you might _immediately_ gain the console achievement “General: Unlock 50 different troops,” because the multiple chest pull provided enough troops to push you past 50. You’d hear the cheevo pop even whilst the chest loot items were just starting to display. Now if the question is whether a 50-pack has a more favourable RNG weighting than that given on a single individual chest, Idk of course, but my impression is that it does in general appear to be so. ---
**Author:** ![TaliaParks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/taliaparks/32/11738_2.png) [@TaliaParks](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TaliaParks)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 4:57pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/vip-chest-what-do-you-pull/10799/26 "2016-08-08T16:57:40Z")
> [@Theicla](#): > > Now if the question is whether a 50-pack has a more favourable RNG weighting than that given on a single individual chest, Idk of course, but my impression is that it does in general appear to be so. I find the RNG works differently with an individual chest than a group. Therefore, I wait to open groups of Keys. I won’t open less than 25 Keys at a time. ---
**Author:** ![UKresistance](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/ukresistance/32/7558_2.png) [@UKresistance](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/UKresistance)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 4:57pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/vip-chest-what-do-you-pull/10799/27 "2016-08-08T16:57:48Z")
You cant say more favorable exactly, just different. I might right a little article on how rng, seed, and salt works in a few days. Sirian confirmed s lot of what I suspected, that the initial seed is a millisecond time stamp. If I ask more of the right questions, I might get some really informative answers from Mr strange. Such as the standard library function they use for rng, and if they do a bit wise exclusive or against the salt and the seed. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Strange](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mr.strange/32/2762_2.png) [@Mr.Strange](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mr.Strange)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/vip-chest-what-do-you-pull/10799/28 "2016-08-08T17:54:32Z")
> [@death](#): > > Yeah 40 traitstones for me last week and no troops. This week 10 epic wtf. Decided to open another 10 pack. 2 gorgotha 8 emperina. > > @Mr.Strange I know you were looking into this. Any new update why this is happening and why no stones are appearing now since you were made aware of it last week? I looked into it, could see no reason for it. And nothing changed on our end since then. Gremlins? ---
**Author:** ![killerman3333](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/killerman3333/32/4068_2.png) [@killerman3333](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/killerman3333)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 6:58pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/vip-chest-what-do-you-pull/10799/29 "2016-08-08T18:58:00Z")
> [@Sirrian](#): > > salt value uniquely generated for each account on creation So that is why my account is salty. What is a salt value? ---
**Author:** ![UKresistance](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/ukresistance/32/7558_2.png) [@UKresistance](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/UKresistance)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 7:07pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/vip-chest-what-do-you-pull/10799/30 "2016-08-08T19:07:33Z")
I’ll right up a little article on rng, seed, and salt in a few days. ---
**Author:** ![TaliaParks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/taliaparks/32/11738_2.png) [@TaliaParks](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TaliaParks)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 7:12pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/vip-chest-what-do-you-pull/10799/31 "2016-08-08T19:12:00Z")
> [@killerman3333](#): > > What is a salt value? A simple Google search… > **[Salt (cryptography)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_(cryptography))** > > In cryptography, a salt is random data fed as an additional input to a one-way function that hashes data, a password or passphrase. Salting helps defend against attacks that use precomputed tables (e.g. rainbow tables), by vastly growing the size of table needed for a successful attack. It also helps protect passwords that occur multiple times in a database, as a new salt is used for each password instance. Additionally, salting does not place any burden on users. > The way salting is typically d... ---
**Author:** ![Robert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/robert/32/12802_2.png) [@Robert](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Robert)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 7:12pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/vip-chest-what-do-you-pull/10799/32 "2016-08-08T19:12:18Z")
Ask the questions, write the article, take the acclaim! Be great if it led to a conclusive ‘it is/isn’t more beneficial to open 50 keys at a time’ statement. Thought I was being paranoid thinking I was having a better time opening groups at a time. ---
**Author:** ![Robert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/robert/32/12802_2.png) [@Robert](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Robert)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 7:13pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/vip-chest-what-do-you-pull/10799/33 "2016-08-08T19:13:42Z")
Yeah but what’s a nonce?! ---
**Author:** ![TaliaParks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/taliaparks/32/11738_2.png) [@TaliaParks](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TaliaParks)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 7:15pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/vip-chest-what-do-you-pull/10799/34 "2016-08-08T19:15:04Z")
> [@Robert](#): > > Yeah but what’s a nonce?! Wikipedia has a search bar too! > **[Cryptographic nonce](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptographic_nonce)** > > In cryptography, a nonce is an arbitrary number that can be used just once in a cryptographic communication. It is often a random or pseudo-random number issued in an authentication protocol to ensure that old communications cannot be reused in replay attacks. They can also be useful as initialization vectors and in cryptographic hash functions. > A nonce is an arbitrary number used only once in a cryptographic communication, in the spirit of a nonce word. They are often random or pseudo-random nu... ---
**Author:** ![Theicla](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/theicla/32/3624_2.png) [@Theicla](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Theicla)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 7:15pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/vip-chest-what-do-you-pull/10799/35 "2016-08-08T19:15:26Z")
> [@UKresistance](#): > > I’ll right up a little article on rng, seed, and salt in a few days. Nice, ty! For lasting impact, you could talk about Pepper too, and garner eternal fame by fixing up the woefully inadequate Wikipedia article on that subject: > **[Pepper (cryptography)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper_(cryptography))** > > In cryptography, a pepper is a secret added to an input such as a password during hashing with a cryptographic hash function. This value differs from a salt in that it is not stored alongside a password hash, but rather the pepper is kept separate in some other medium, such as a Hardware Security Module. Note that the National Institute of Standards and Technology refers to this value as a secret key rather than a pepper. A pepper is similar in concept to a salt or an encryption key. It is li A ... EDIT: Talia got the word out first 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![killerman3333](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/killerman3333/32/4068_2.png) [@killerman3333](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/killerman3333)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 7:22pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/vip-chest-what-do-you-pull/10799/36 "2016-08-08T19:22:55Z")
![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/c/c40279edfef2e6eaf2721f523baa88ed0661bed1.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Robert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/robert/32/12802_2.png) [@Robert](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Robert)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 7:33pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/vip-chest-what-do-you-pull/10799/37 "2016-08-08T19:33:04Z")
Ha it has a different meaning around these parts. Any other condiments going around? Im now afraid to use my event keys this week when Infernal King is available. ---
**Author:** ![TaliaParks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/taliaparks/32/11738_2.png) [@TaliaParks](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TaliaParks)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 7:37pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/vip-chest-what-do-you-pull/10799/38 "2016-08-08T19:37:49Z")
> [@Robert](#): > > Ha it has a different meaning around these parts. Any other condiments going around? There’s also “spice” in the [Hasty Pudding cipher](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasty_Pudding_cipher) ---
**Author:** ![UKresistance](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/ukresistance/32/7558_2.png) [@UKresistance](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/UKresistance)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 8:17pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/vip-chest-what-do-you-pull/10799/39 "2016-08-08T20:17:36Z")
I’ve never heard of pepper or spice lol. I’m sure it plays the same roll. I’m old and I took cs 20+ years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Theicla](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/theicla/32/3624_2.png) [@Theicla](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Theicla)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 8:43pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/vip-chest-what-do-you-pull/10799/40 "2016-08-08T20:43:14Z")
Never heard Pepper or Spice? Neither did I 'til Wikipedia saith that such cryptographic condiments exist… lol To return to the subject of chests proper: > [@Mr.Strange](#): > > > [@death](#): > > > > Yeah 40 traitstones for me last week and no troops. This week 10 epic wtf. Decided to open another 10 pack. 2 gorgotha 8 emperina. > > > > @Mr.Strange I know you were looking into this. Any new update why this is happening and why no stones are appearing now since you were made aware of it last week? > > I looked into it, could see no reason for it. And nothing changed on our end since then. > > Gremlins? Recap: Last week folks were getting traitstones at high frequency out of the VIP chests, rather than troops. This week I am getting nothing but Runesmith at 100% frequency out of Event chests despite the enticing promise of Gorgotha (I just tried Event chests again today and-- you guessed it-- yet more Runesmith). A month ago, @wargems also reported getting nothing but Berserker ad nauseum: > [@Event chests? Bah humbug!](http://community.gemsofwar.com/t/event-chests-bah-humbug/8913): > > Open event chest aaaaaand beserker, beserker beserker beserker beserker beserker beserker beserker beserker beserker beserker beserker beserker beserker and beserker reaches legendary and open event chests Bah humbug aaaaaand beserker beserker beserker beserker beserker and beserker getting closer to mythical beserker Bah humbug wheres the good stuff from event chests? So either this console chest isn’t working correctly, or the troop displayed on the “You can win!” thumbnail is always what you’ll get, all the time, period. And we’ve all wasted an enormous amount of gems to discover this little unfortunate fact. 😵 While we’re pointing out unusual troop drop frequencies, I want to draw attention to the similarity of pulls I was getting from both my console and PC accounts. I have screenshots of Gem chests pulls taken minutes between each other, and they tended to be top heavy in these UR troops: Black Beast \*\*\* Blast Cannon Chimera Flame Cannon Flesh Golem \*\*\* Sacred Guardian Spider Queen \*\*\* War Sphinx \*\*\* These are all from the original release version. That list also changed a bit over time; I used to get a lot of Lamia on console, and now not so much; I’m getting Stone Giant instead. What’s weird for me here is that my first UR cards were 1. Flesh Golem, 2. Black Beast, and my last three URs to appear from the original release were X. Spider Queen, Y. War Sphinx, Z. Blade Dancer. After that… I started getting spammed with Black Beasts and War Sphinxes in my chests. I didn’t think much of it until I noticed I was continually failing to get Centaur Scout (common). What could possibly connect these RNG incidences? Well… Perhaps somehow there’s an alphabetical list bias? Meaning that Black Beast is near the beginning of the list (as is “Berserker” in @wargems’ case) while War Sphinx was right at the end. So too we find Centaur Scout is the _first_ of the common cards in an alphabetical listing of rarity. In the original 1.06 troop display list, Centaur Scout (the _last_ common I received) was also placed in the lineup immediately _before_ Keeper of Souls… which coincidentally was the _first_ Legendary I ever received on console… I realize this is all conjecture, but these coincidences are interesting. I can’t fathom a fair guess for what might even cause this. What, might there be something unusual about the salt value modification, associated with my console account from the start? [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/vip-chest-what-do-you-pull/10799.md?page=1) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/vip-chest-what-do-you-pull/10799.md?page=3)