# UPDATED - The end of Forest Troll, 2x Kraken, Queen Mab **URL:** \ **Category:** Gameplay Chat (General)\ **Created:** [October 31, 2017, 8:09pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-the-end-of-forest-troll-2x-kraken-queen-mab/32525 "2017-10-31T20:09:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![KrudlerTheHorse](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/krudlerthehorse/32/9505_2.png) [@KrudlerTheHorse](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/KrudlerTheHorse)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 8:51pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-the-end-of-forest-troll-2x-kraken-queen-mab/32525/48 "2017-11-01T20:51:17Z")
Sorry to bump, but I can confirm after testing that Plague was a sub-optimal choice. * * * # Fully-Traited Queen Mab in 4th for total beatdown of what was once the most annoying team going. * * * All you need is a single 4-Match to have a 75% chance to Freeze one of the enemies (Mab is immune to Frozen remember). This should all but eliminate the opportunities for the AI to loop. Now I set my sights on other grief teams. Any nominations? ---
**Author:** ![Gouki](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/gouki/32/22405_2.png) [@Gouki](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Gouki)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 9:08pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-the-end-of-forest-troll-2x-kraken-queen-mab/32525/49 "2017-11-01T21:08:25Z")
Mab basically makes every team better. Ever since Unity Gems of War isn’t actually a 3-match game anymore but a 4+match game, which makes her trait just absurdly strong in offense and defense. Anyways, fun team suggestion, now just find 6 monocolour versions for guild wars and all is peachy. ---
**Author:** ![akots](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/13edae/32.png) [@akots](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/akots)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 9:46pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-the-end-of-forest-troll-2x-kraken-queen-mab/32525/50 "2017-11-01T21:46:04Z")
> [@Whiskeyjack](#): > > Interesting. Why not Krystenax? Not impervious, but has immunity to entangle AND stoneskin. Maybe you are using war goat because of his event boost? > > Edit: having tried it, I guess it’s also so that skulls can’t be frozen That is one of the reasons and a big one since most of the damage comes from skulls. Another is that even if your Krystenax is powered up, you really don’t want to cast because there should be no useful color to remove as majority on the board is red and yellow. Also, K has slightly higher magic versus Goat but Goat has higher attack especially this week. And not everyone has K which is also hard to trait whereas Goat is a simple common, adding a lot of style points as well. Too bad it does not count. 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![KrudlerTheHorse](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/krudlerthehorse/32/9505_2.png) [@KrudlerTheHorse](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/KrudlerTheHorse)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 10:18pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-the-end-of-forest-troll-2x-kraken-queen-mab/32525/51 "2017-11-01T22:18:06Z")
> [@Gouki](#): > > Ever since Unity Gems of War isn’t actually a 3-match game anymore but a 4+match game, A humble correction: GoW is now a slot machine with skill opportunities hidden between the relentless sky magic and completely, fundamentally broken Troops that can generate 24+ Mana after only gathering 3-6 of their own. ---
**Author:** ![Eowhyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/91b2a8/32.png) [@Eowhyre](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Eowhyre)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 10:43pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-the-end-of-forest-troll-2x-kraken-queen-mab/32525/52 "2017-11-01T22:43:41Z")
Agree 100% it’s to the point it’s no fun anymore 'cause EVERYONE is using that combo (or close variation) it’s like losing the same battle all day long. Devs take note - time for a rework ☹ ---
**Author:** ![KrudlerTheHorse](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/krudlerthehorse/32/9505_2.png) [@KrudlerTheHorse](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/KrudlerTheHorse)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 10:48pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-the-end-of-forest-troll-2x-kraken-queen-mab/32525/53 "2017-11-01T22:48:02Z")
As frustrating as it is to play the same Troops over and again, I don’t get mad for people using them. On a fundamental level it is bad strategy to use Troops that have lower efficiency thresholds. If they changed all the Trolls to 15 Mana, just as an example, people would move to the next highest efficient Troops. But broken is broken, yes. And the spawning troops and mechanism is severely broken. ---
**Author:** ![Vangor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/vangor/32/31404_2.png) [@Vangor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Vangor)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 10:57pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-the-end-of-forest-troll-2x-kraken-queen-mab/32525/54 "2017-11-01T22:57:54Z")
Ok this is turning into an echo chamber for hating on the game and the devs so add one more to the “threads muted by Vangor” list Ta ta ---
**Author:** ![Gilgamesh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/gilgamesh/32/29022_2.png) [@Gilgamesh](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Gilgamesh)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 10:59pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-the-end-of-forest-troll-2x-kraken-queen-mab/32525/55 "2017-11-01T22:59:47Z")
Artema Apothecary Ketras Doomclaw Just about unsinkable and fun. ---
**Author:** ![Eika](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/eika/32/103088_2.png) [@Eika](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Eika)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 11:00pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-the-end-of-forest-troll-2x-kraken-queen-mab/32525/56 "2017-11-01T23:00:44Z")
I do possibly have Highforge in last spot, just to get a fast start with Apothecary. Nice team tho. ---
**Author:** ![Drathas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/drathas/32/7344_2.png) [@Drathas](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Drathas)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 11:15pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-the-end-of-forest-troll-2x-kraken-queen-mab/32525/57 "2017-11-01T23:15:04Z")
I don’t have Doomie traited, so I did try few weeks ago: Artema Apoc Hammer of Urska (oracle) Yasmine’s Chosen Works alright 😜 ---
**Author:** ![Eika](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/eika/32/103088_2.png) [@Eika](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Eika)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 11:17pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-the-end-of-forest-troll-2x-kraken-queen-mab/32525/58 "2017-11-01T23:17:02Z")
I hope there will come a nice Mythic weapon that uses brown mana in the future. ---
**Author:** ![KrudlerTheHorse](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/krudlerthehorse/32/9505_2.png) [@KrudlerTheHorse](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/KrudlerTheHorse)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 11:40pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-the-end-of-forest-troll-2x-kraken-queen-mab/32525/59 "2017-11-01T23:40:06Z")
> [@Grundulum](#): > > If you decide to make another thread to discuss how you see the game as having changed, I would read it. Ooooh… as much as I want to share my thoughts (don’t we all lol) I made my statement when the Guild Guardians were released and that comment was about as popular as a lactose-intolerant fart in a crowded elevator. I was the only person to say it then and I stand by it. I don’t see the point in re-stating an opinion which will not be accepted by the community, will not bring about an adjustment to the underlying problem, and will just seed disharmony. ---
**Author:** ![BRchell](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/brchell/32/30489_2.png) [@BRchell](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/BRchell)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 12:34am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-the-end-of-forest-troll-2x-kraken-queen-mab/32525/60 "2017-11-02T00:34:30Z")
Krystenax TDS Famine Krystenax No worries. ---
**Author:** ![Anchovies](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/anchovies/32/27179_2.png) [@Anchovies](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Anchovies)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 2:47am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-the-end-of-forest-troll-2x-kraken-queen-mab/32525/61 "2017-11-02T02:47:14Z")
> [@KrudlerTheHorse](#): > > Fully-Traited Queen Mab in 4th for total beatdown of what was once the most annoying team going. > > * * * > > All you need is a single 4-Match to have a 75% chance to Freeze one of the enemies (Mab is immune to Frozen remember). This should all but eliminate the opportunities for the AI to loop. Aw gee, it’s almost like Queen Mab is the problem here! **What a surprise.** She’s what made Justice League broken, she’s what’s made Kraken Troll broken. The mechanical problem is that freezing an enemy troop creates a chance that the opponent will be forced to pass the turn with a board containing at least one 4-5 match. If making that 4-5 match freezes another enemy troop, then your opponent is even more likely to be forced to pass the turn with 4-5 matches on the board, which freezes another enemy troop, which again raises the chance that your opponent will be forced to pass the turn with 4-5 matches on the board… The trait feeds into itself, and a single 4-5 match can very quickly spiral into freezing all enemies every turn, preventing the recovery chance from rising above 10%. That’s the broken part of it. Without that feedback loop - say, if Queen Mab froze a random enemy when matching blue - the team would still be powerful. Freeze inhibits enemy spellcasting, and Forest Troll is _nasty_ good at stopping enemy skull damage. Put Forest Troll alongside a good freeze source and some compatible spread-damage loopers (kraken, in this case), and you’ve got yourself a nice stall/control team. Of course, there’s also Kraken having a repeatable devour tacked onto an already very strong spell, but that’s an entirely different can of worms. ---
**Author:** ![Delinquent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7c8e57/32.png) [@Delinquent](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Delinquent)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 3:00am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-the-end-of-forest-troll-2x-kraken-queen-mab/32525/62 "2017-11-02T03:00:29Z")
Mab hasn’t been touched and wasn’t really an issue for, what, a year? She’s not the cause of the problem; just a convenient scapegoat for more broken things. ---
**Author:** ![KrudlerTheHorse](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/krudlerthehorse/32/9505_2.png) [@KrudlerTheHorse](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/KrudlerTheHorse)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 3:01am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-the-end-of-forest-troll-2x-kraken-queen-mab/32525/63 "2017-11-02T03:01:17Z")
You’re preaching to the choir my friend! IMO there are two issues at play, the first is a single Affix run-amok without a robust roster of defense/counter, this Affix being applied a lone Trait in the course of regular matching. The second issue is Mana multiplying which we see exploited most frequently with Forest Troll / Kraken These 2 issues combined are lethal. Each needs to be addressed individually. ---
**Author:** ![Venar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/venar/32/36634_2.png) [@Venar](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Venar)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 3:54am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-the-end-of-forest-troll-2x-kraken-queen-mab/32525/64 "2017-11-02T03:54:11Z")
Cool video. But I don’t think this is « the end of Forest Troll blabla » I think most of veteran players already have a counter for it. I am almost sure also that many are faster and more efficient. As I said, cool team, but it’s probably just the fact that you can’t be frozen. Try Carnex, Manticore, Behemoth X 2 and you’ll have similar success. The current problem is not finding a counter team. The problem is the necessity to have and use a counter team. I have 30 team slots. I’d love to play something else than my counter team. But 90% of my opponents have trolls or Mab or some other exploding-loop crap, so I am forced into a counter team instead of an imaginative fun team. Just look at all the meta complains on the forum. The popular answer? Use Mab! Or Kraken! Or my favorite: _i don’t have a problem using Krystenax +TDS!_. Of course not, a dead cat would win with those, they are the easy-win for dummies troops. Even the devs , before the Wisp nerf, said that they are balanced since Mab can beat them. Really? Sorry. This is a fun thread and I come here and unload my frustrations. But I am tired of everyone knowing that there is a core set of about 20 cards that are so out-of balanced that they dominate the game and make any other troop bad, and yet no one is willing to ask for massive balancing nerfs. I mean, Plague, a great, powerful, awesome troop with a sick 3rd trait , is getting kicked off the team because cards like Mab make everyone else bad. ---
**Author:** ![Rickygervais](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@Rickygervais](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rickygervais)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 3:57am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-the-end-of-forest-troll-2x-kraken-queen-mab/32525/65 "2017-11-02T03:57:14Z")
Well mab is the only card that can prevent looping this is why she is so popular. Since bone dragon been nerfed it also reduced the number of good card and the pure skull damage card are all almost gone for good ---
**Author:** ![Sin\_Ogaris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Sin\_Ogaris](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Sin_Ogaris)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 4:05am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-the-end-of-forest-troll-2x-kraken-queen-mab/32525/66 "2017-11-02T04:05:04Z")
Just as an argument to this, isn’t that the point? I mean, what you want is for all cards to effectively be equal so instead of needing to find a good counter to a problem you can just use anything and still win (provided it is obviously similar level and traited/etc). That’s not really how this game works, I actually look at it as a fancy game of rock paper scissors. The variety in cards means there is always a way to counter any team, no matter how powerful, it’s just people can’t be bothered doing it, they just want to use the exact same four troops every single match and just win with no deviation. I defeated a Troll/Kraken/Mab team solely because I had Gloom Leaf, Impervious saved me (he was my final guy in the top spot, everyone else died). It wasn’t exactly easy, but it happened and hey if I only wanted easy fights I’d just constantly explore on normal. Plus there are multiple different ways to counter so you wouldn’t even need to use the exact same team. ---
**Author:** ![Venar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/venar/32/36634_2.png) [@Venar](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Venar)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 4:11am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-the-end-of-forest-troll-2x-kraken-queen-mab/32525/67 "2017-11-02T04:11:08Z")
Well yes, but to me, countering should help, not be mandatory. For exemple, take Goblins. Usually fast and dangerous. You can use a counter team, that targets Goblin. Or Freeze. But you don’t have to. A skilled player with a decent, strong team, can prevail. But for the Kraken Meta, you need a specific counter or you will be pummeled. [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-the-end-of-forest-troll-2x-kraken-queen-mab/32525.md?page=2) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-the-end-of-forest-troll-2x-kraken-queen-mab/32525.md?page=4)