# Updated Mab in PvP graphs **URL:** \ **Category:** Gameplay Chat (General)\ **Created:** [May 27, 2016, 7:29am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-mab-in-pvp-graphs/7504 "2016-05-27T07:29:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Machiknight](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/machiknight/32/6108_2.png) [@Machiknight](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Machiknight)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-mab-in-pvp-graphs/7504/121 "2016-06-01T18:09:11Z")
Hehe yes frozen finally lived up to the hype from before it was released. ---
**Author:** ![captain\_video](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/db5fbb/32.png) [@captain\_video](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/captain_video)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 6:44pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-mab-in-pvp-graphs/7504/122 "2016-06-01T18:44:24Z")
Did I mention how I hate Frozen? ---
**Author:** ![Shiratori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Shiratori](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Shiratori)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 6:46pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-mab-in-pvp-graphs/7504/123 "2016-06-01T18:46:09Z")
Let it go… Let it go… ---
**Author:** ![captain\_video](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/db5fbb/32.png) [@captain\_video](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/captain_video)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 6:55pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-mab-in-pvp-graphs/7504/124 "2016-06-01T18:55:26Z")
Read my lips: The thing about frozen heroes is, they CAN’T… LET… GO…! They’re FROZEN!! (Oh wait… Frozen heroes can/t move their lips either…) Read my thoughts! The thing about frozen heroes is, they CAN’T… LET… (Sadly, our hero’s tablet screen just faded to black.) ---
**Author:** ![Pasa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@Pasa](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Pasa)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 8:26pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-mab-in-pvp-graphs/7504/125 "2016-06-01T20:26:08Z")
> [@Jainus](#): > > **1 - is the ladder really the game’s top players?** Sure it is. If you define “top player” as the one who grinds more atm, certainly. For different definitions it is not. To me it looks okay as a starting point, many suggestions in this topic would create a much worse situation. One thing to look for is the offer selection and related points – for my limited experience it’s not evidently broken, but if I saw different accounts cold see that differently. The game should NOT by any means offer harder battles and lower points to players with more level, esp. the combination of that. But offers come from the server so I expect it gets tuned and experimented with, possibly even on daily basis and will change a lot. For better to some for worse to others. I’s sure there is no offer algo that would make everyone happy, the expectations are contradicting. > [@Jainus](#): > > **2 - Maw and Mercy dominate pvp defends at high level FAR too much** As already mentioned some of that is fallout of the bug that made you invade with the defense team so people put their offense team on defense and maybe left it ever since. Beyond the boredom there are proper matching team for that with more broken toons like shadow-hunter. And to have more diversity we need a different approach than demanding the nerf of the current top dog. ---
**Author:** ![captain\_video](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/db5fbb/32.png) [@captain\_video](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/captain_video)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 8:50pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-mab-in-pvp-graphs/7504/126 "2016-06-01T20:50:16Z")
My level 142 phone alt has beaten both a Maw team and a Mab team today, using no legendaries or mythics, on hard ranked battles. There are many ways to deal with those enemies besides crying nerf. ---
**Author:** ![Jainus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jainus/32/34949_2.png) [@Jainus](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Jainus)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 9:04pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-mab-in-pvp-graphs/7504/127 "2016-06-01T21:04:53Z")
I agree more diversity would best be addressed by having more troops, and more better troops, rather than fewer outliers that are disproportionately strong… But toning down those outliers which are (1) stronger or (2) too common or (3) just not fun to play against, or all of the above, is also a part of it for time to time… When half the matches offered feature the same two troops, AND when playing against them is (to quote your oft-used and apt phrase) a coin toss, then something really needs doing… ---
**Author:** ![Pasa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@Pasa](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Pasa)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 9:22pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-mab-in-pvp-graphs/7504/128 "2016-06-01T21:22:09Z")
Just let’s not fall to the usual fallacy of - We must do something. - X is something - therefore we must do X On a different tack, I see 15-20k players getting to tier 1. Unfortunately the table shows only the top 100, but I guess a small portion of that struggles for the points to be in top 100 (or now the top 1000 even.) This week I saw not a single maw in my climb to 2000-ish. Maybe your problem is really tied to just the top 100. IF so, optimizing for that small minority’s sake is a questionable proposition. QOL=wise I’d still vore on the option to kill nuts animations (esp. the one for traits at game start) than messing with the meta. (And I didn’t even mention the embarrassing state that the game fails to add up simple numbers correctly and present them in the proper cell O,O ) ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 9:30pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-mab-in-pvp-graphs/7504/129 "2016-06-01T21:30:58Z")
There are definitely still Maws all over the top few hundred ranks (and I’m guilty of using one on defense, though I don’t attack with one). However, last week I basically only saw Mercy/Maw for “hard” invades, and now I see more diversity. Either the matchmaking system has tuned itself better, or else people are experimenting with new defenses again. (Or I’m extrapolating from one data point, and others have a different experience. Which would render my whole paragraph as wasted words.) ---
**Author:** ![Pasa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@Pasa](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Pasa)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 9:42pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-mab-in-pvp-graphs/7504/130 "2016-06-01T21:42:08Z")
Also may be a factor – just noticed that my maw/mercy team has score of 7000 while most of my other teams 7600-7900. (Btw just fought tried the new ‘fight’ option (yey!) sending my War team on my mawgeddon team, and won fine. Sure the gobs were not unbeatable by any means either esp after issuing specific counters, just booooring to see all the time) Also used the opportunity to switch back the defense to my beloved worms. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 12:21am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-mab-in-pvp-graphs/7504/131 "2016-06-02T00:21:48Z")
I run an all-Whitehelm team built around board control and buffing Paladin to deal high damage to specific enemies. While I have only faced a few Maw combos I don’t believe I’ve lost to any of them primarily because I kill Maw so quickly. I’m still seeing a metric ton of goblin teams and they’re still more problematic because of their own ability to generate endless turns ---
**Author:** ![Brakkish](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/brakkish/32/24058_2.png) [@Brakkish](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Brakkish)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 12:41am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-mab-in-pvp-graphs/7504/132 "2016-06-02T00:41:38Z")
I feel like I’m seeing fewer Maw teams this week, and an increasing number of freeze teams, especially with Mab. Personally, I took Celestia out of my dragon defense, and swapped in Borealis, and I’ve seen fewer invades since doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Pasa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@Pasa](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Pasa)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 12:53am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-mab-in-pvp-graphs/7504/133 "2016-06-02T00:53:16Z")
Yeah, _Winter is coming_ ---
**Author:** ![killerman3333](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/killerman3333/32/4068_2.png) [@killerman3333](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/killerman3333)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 2:26am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-mab-in-pvp-graphs/7504/134 "2016-06-02T02:26:12Z")
The meta is shifting and no buff/nerfs have even happened. this is awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Darkness](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/darkness/32/2712_2.png) [@Darkness](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Darkness)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 5:52am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-mab-in-pvp-graphs/7504/135 "2016-06-02T05:52:27Z")
> [@killerman3333](#): > > The meta is shifting and no buff/nerfs have even happened. this is awesome. Not at the high levels. There it is still \>50% Maw/Mercy… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 6:37am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-mab-in-pvp-graphs/7504/136 "2016-06-02T06:37:06Z")
Yup. At high levels, Maw and Mercy are definitely dominant. There are a bunch of people experimenting, but Maw is king. ---
**Author:** ![Cell](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/cell/32/5524_2.png) [@Cell](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Cell)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 6:53am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-mab-in-pvp-graphs/7504/137 "2016-06-02T06:53:45Z")
It’s funny but I only come across a Merciless Maw deck maybe 1 in 15-20, every other match is against goblins though, I always fight the hardest match except when the middle match is a revenge or rival for the added glory, I’m tier one and it hasn’t made much of a difference in the line ups to and after the crawl… Maybe I’m just lucky, but I am annoyed that 1 in every 3 invasions are against a hard a rock daemon, I thought yesterday that just maybe I can skull spam it to death… Boy was I wrong, I did get him to 2 life though ---
**Author:** ![Jainus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jainus/32/34949_2.png) [@Jainus](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Jainus)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 6:53am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-mab-in-pvp-graphs/7504/138 "2016-06-02T06:53:46Z")
And Mercy is queen… ---
**Author:** ![Jainus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jainus/32/34949_2.png) [@Jainus](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Jainus)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 6:54am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-mab-in-pvp-graphs/7504/139 "2016-06-02T06:54:48Z")
Gorgotha is easily taken down with spell damage… though I guess at your level you don’t have too many viable team options to pick from yet? ---
**Author:** ![Cell](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/cell/32/5524_2.png) [@Cell](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Cell)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 6:56am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-mab-in-pvp-graphs/7504/140 "2016-06-02T06:56:16Z")
> [@Lyya](#): > > but Maw is king. @Eika can confirm the Rhonda (Maw) is most definitely a queen [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-mab-in-pvp-graphs/7504.md?page=6) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-mab-in-pvp-graphs/7504.md?page=8)