# Two birds, one stone - Or how to fix the end game soul issue AND card rarity **URL:** \ **Category:** Feature Requests and Game feedback\ **Created:** [February 3, 2017, 4:46pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/two-birds-one-stone-or-how-to-fix-the-end-game-soul-issue-and-card-rarity/19469 "2017-02-03T16:46:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Rasper](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/rasper/32/2363_2.png) [@Rasper](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rasper)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 10:03pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/two-birds-one-stone-or-how-to-fix-the-end-game-soul-issue-and-card-rarity/19469/41 "2017-02-04T22:03:45Z")
Looking at drop rates in Gold Keys. I haven’t updated my data in a while, but this is what I had calculated 50% common troop 16.75% rare troop 18.5% minor traitstone 6.75% major traitstone 2% gold 2% souls 2% glory 2% gems For me personally, of the 52 non-guardian commons I only need 5 and of the 61 rares I need 3. I need no souls, no minor, and no majors. Applying this 0.5 \* 5/52 = 4.8% useful common troop 0.1675 \* 3/61 = 0.8% useful rare troop 0% useful minor traitstone 0% useful major traitstone 2% gold 0% useful souls 2% glory 2% gems Net total: Only 11.6% of gold chests (about 1 in 9) contain anything useful, and only 5.6% (about 1 in 18) of them have a useful troop. I realize this is the “down side” of being at the end game and I shouldn’t let it irk me. But of those 8 troops I need 3 of them are Silverglade and the only thing keeping me from reaching 5\*. And it is extremely frustrating to get your 200th mythic Dawrven Miner when you still need 122 Silver Drakon. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2017, 2:23am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/two-birds-one-stone-or-how-to-fix-the-end-game-soul-issue-and-card-rarity/19469/42 "2017-02-05T02:23:21Z")
I have 400 or more of 25 commons. ---
**Author:** ![Justin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ab097/32.png) [@Justin](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Justin)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2017, 3:43am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/two-birds-one-stone-or-how-to-fix-the-end-game-soul-issue-and-card-rarity/19469/43 "2017-02-05T03:43:49Z")
It’s definitely annoying, but the best I’ve found is using the different chests to target things. If you don’t have VIP chests, stuff beyond ultra rare won’t be easily done. I am at the point where my epics are mythic and I have even disenchanted lots of copies of most of them, yet some of the newer ultra rares are only ascended to epic because I mostly open VIP chests to target mythics. I could target them with gem chests (or event keys during their kingdom events), but the increased chance of mythic from VIP and lowered guild rewards leaves me torn on how to spend my resources. So far, desire to get every mythic has won out. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2017, 3:48am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/two-birds-one-stone-or-how-to-fix-the-end-game-soul-issue-and-card-rarity/19469/44 "2017-02-05T03:48:50Z")
I have 4 mythics. I got 2 of them from gem chests and 2 from glory chests. I’ve opened 100’s of VIP chests. Personally, I’d rather open 250 gem chests than 50 VIP. ---
**Author:** ![Justin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ab097/32.png) [@Justin](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Justin)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2017, 3:57am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/two-birds-one-stone-or-how-to-fix-the-end-game-soul-issue-and-card-rarity/19469/45 "2017-02-05T03:57:45Z")
VIP chests are more reliable, since you get loads of arcanes every time you buy 50. Gem chests sometimes are a complete bust. To each their own. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2017, 4:27am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/two-birds-one-stone-or-how-to-fix-the-end-game-soul-issue-and-card-rarity/19469/46 "2017-02-05T04:27:35Z")
I’ve got almost everything traited so the stones have very little worth to me. The only reason I really have to spend gems at all is to get the last few mythics. For that purpose, VIP chests have been a very expensive failure. I probably won’t ever open another one. ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2017, 4:43am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/two-birds-one-stone-or-how-to-fix-the-end-game-soul-issue-and-card-rarity/19469/47 "2017-02-05T04:43:46Z")
Fair enough, but mathematically you are harming your chances by purchasing Gem chests if your only goal is Mythics. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2017, 5:01am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/two-birds-one-stone-or-how-to-fix-the-end-game-soul-issue-and-card-rarity/19469/48 "2017-02-05T05:01:08Z")
Mathematically you have such a small chance to get a Mythic from any source that it’s all roulette anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2017, 5:01am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/two-birds-one-stone-or-how-to-fix-the-end-game-soul-issue-and-card-rarity/19469/49 "2017-02-05T05:01:38Z")
The devs have gone on record as saying that VIP chests offer at least a 10x chance to result in a Mythic as Gem chests do. We don’t know the exact drop chances, but regardless of what they are, VIP chests will be a better deal – _if you only care about Legendary and Mythic drops._ If you care about the other rewards (traitstones, Ultra-Rares, etc.) then obviously this doesn’t apply. Assume, for the sake of argument, that there is a 0.15% chance to draw a Mythic from a Gem chest. You then have a 1.5% chance to draw one from a VIP chest. Your chances of not drawing a Mythic on each pull is 99.85% and 98.5%, respectively. Let’s say you are investing 2,250 Gems into either Gem keys or VIP keys. This translates to 250 Gem keys when buying them in bulk (their most efficient), or 50 VIP keys. Your chance to get one or more Mythics from Gem chests is: Pg = 1 - (0.9985250) ≈ 0.313 = 31.3% Your chance to get one or more Mythics from VIP chests is: Pv = 1 - (0.98550) ≈ 0.470 = 47.0% So there is a marked increase in efficiency using VIP chests to draw Mythics as compared to Gem chests. ---
**Author:** ![HKdirewolf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/hkdirewolf/32/21614_2.png) [@HKdirewolf](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/HKdirewolf)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2017, 5:05am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/two-birds-one-stone-or-how-to-fix-the-end-game-soul-issue-and-card-rarity/19469/50 "2017-02-05T05:05:44Z")
I see what you’re saying and understand it, but i’ll be using gem chests only. Thanks for the math. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2017, 5:07am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/two-birds-one-stone-or-how-to-fix-the-end-game-soul-issue-and-card-rarity/19469/51 "2017-02-05T05:07:35Z")
And yet for all the thousands of gems I’ve spent on them I haven’t gotten a single Mythic. I appreciate the math behind it but at this point personal experience bias trumps everything else. For example, I had nearly 2500 gems saved when I got Gard from a glory chest of all things. I made a few attempts in between but by the time Pharos-Ra was released, I had 4500 gems saved up. Spent every last one on VIP chests and got no Pharos-Ra. Had to start again at zero. Fast forward to this week, I had about 3800 saved for Jotnar. Opened 1100 gems worth of gem chests and got him. So I already have 2500 saved for next time. VIP chests are simply too expensive for me given the ridiculously low chances of getting a Mythic. ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2017, 5:09am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/two-birds-one-stone-or-how-to-fix-the-end-game-soul-issue-and-card-rarity/19469/52 "2017-02-05T05:09:54Z")
That’s fair, and the advantage that Gem chests bring to the table is that you can stop after, say, 50, if you manage to get the drop then, whereas with VIP chests you have to spend the 2250 Gems in one lump. I’ve most definitely gotten Mythics from VIP, but everyone’s experiences will differ. ---
**Author:** ![HKdirewolf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/hkdirewolf/32/21614_2.png) [@HKdirewolf](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/HKdirewolf)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2017, 5:12am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/two-birds-one-stone-or-how-to-fix-the-end-game-soul-issue-and-card-rarity/19469/53 "2017-02-05T05:12:37Z")
I don’t think she understands we’re just joking right friend? 😂😆 ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2017, 5:13am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/two-birds-one-stone-or-how-to-fix-the-end-game-soul-issue-and-card-rarity/19469/54 "2017-02-05T05:13:32Z")
You’ve set the bar so low, @HKdirewolf, I no longer assume you’re doing anything at all except picking your nose. ---
**Author:** ![HKdirewolf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/hkdirewolf/32/21614_2.png) [@HKdirewolf](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/HKdirewolf)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2017, 5:15am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/two-birds-one-stone-or-how-to-fix-the-end-game-soul-issue-and-card-rarity/19469/55 "2017-02-05T05:15:16Z")
I’ve moved on to potty training now thank you. My mom says i’m doing so well. 🕶 and don’t bring it up again! ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2017, 5:17am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/two-birds-one-stone-or-how-to-fix-the-end-game-soul-issue-and-card-rarity/19469/56 "2017-02-05T05:17:11Z")
![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/e/1/e187f264a6973f2dfb7dc7f03edd8e04e6c126e4.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2017, 5:17am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/two-birds-one-stone-or-how-to-fix-the-end-game-soul-issue-and-card-rarity/19469/57 "2017-02-05T05:17:29Z")
That’s precisely it. For me, buying 50 VIP chests is going all in. If I win great, but if I don’t, I’ve lost everything. ---
**Author:** ![HKdirewolf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/hkdirewolf/32/21614_2.png) [@HKdirewolf](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/HKdirewolf)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2017, 5:18am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/two-birds-one-stone-or-how-to-fix-the-end-game-soul-issue-and-card-rarity/19469/58 "2017-02-05T05:18:23Z")
Oh you were serious? That’s just madness. I can’t be a part of that. see ya, skip. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2017, 2:00pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/two-birds-one-stone-or-how-to-fix-the-end-game-soul-issue-and-card-rarity/19469/59 "2017-02-05T14:00:34Z")
Spending 100% of my gems to get nothing? THAT is madness. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2017, 2:13pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/two-birds-one-stone-or-how-to-fix-the-end-game-soul-issue-and-card-rarity/19469/60 "2017-02-05T14:13:38Z")
I’ve pretty much decided that unless they run some kind of event that makes them exclusive, I will never get the 3 Horsemen I am missing. I’m not dumping hundreds of gems for a chance to get copies of what I already have. I’m exclusively only targeting kingdom-specific mythics from now on, during their event weeks. That way if I do get one, I know which it will be. Gonna require some patience but it beats the alternative. Honestly, just accepting that the Horsemen are out of reach improves my mindset on the game a little. [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/two-birds-one-stone-or-how-to-fix-the-end-game-soul-issue-and-card-rarity/19469.md?page=2) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/two-birds-one-stone-or-how-to-fix-the-end-game-soul-issue-and-card-rarity/19469.md?page=4)