# This isn't about nerfing. It's about balance **URL:** \ **Category:** Feature Requests and Game feedback\ **Created:** [July 8, 2018, 3:14pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-isnt-about-nerfing-its-about-balance/42223 "2018-07-08T15:14:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![The\_Freak](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/the_freak/32/32738_2.png) [@The\_Freak](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/The_Freak)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 7:03pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-isnt-about-nerfing-its-about-balance/42223/138 "2018-07-16T19:03:43Z")
I **_like_** the spells and traits of the meta divines 👍! Their mechanics vary the dynamics of each match - which is what I enjoy about the game. _However_ the mana cost relative to their power is way too low. Don’t nerf the spells… **_raise the mana cost_** similar to The Worldbreaker. My suggestions: Ubastet 32 Infernus 28 Suna 24 Divine Ishbala and Forest Guardian 22 Divinia 18 ---
**Author:** ![Thevc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a8b319/32.png) [@Thevc](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Thevc)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 9:48pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-isnt-about-nerfing-its-about-balance/42223/139 "2018-07-16T21:48:21Z")
I agree with the Freak. Raise the mana cost to allow variation back into the game. The world breaker and scorpius are higher in cost and weaker in effect than the troops in question for example. All of this could of course be avoided by proper beta testing. ---
**Author:** ![TheIdleOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@TheIdleOne](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TheIdleOne)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 1:53am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-isnt-about-nerfing-its-about-balance/42223/140 "2018-07-17T01:53:07Z")
> [@The\_Freak](#): > > Don’t nerf the spells… _ **raise the mana cost** _ similar to The Worldbreaker. > > My suggestions: > Ubastet 32 > Infernus 28 > Suna 24 > Divine Ishbala and Forest Guardian 22 > Divinia 18 Poor Suna. Isn’t even that amazing at 20 mana. At your suggested values, most of those troops would be nearly unusable. Rather take a proper fix instead in that case. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Freak](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/the_freak/32/32738_2.png) [@The\_Freak](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/The_Freak)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 2:36am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-isnt-about-nerfing-its-about-balance/42223/141 "2018-07-17T02:36:29Z")
Other than Suna (which on second thought may be a bit high), these values are justified since Divines already start at 50% mana thanks to DI. None of the troops listed should be able to fill in the first turn. An alternative is nerf DI’s 3rd trait to 25%. That would be a simpler fix. ---
**Author:** ![Tatz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/tatz/32/86556_2.png) [@Tatz](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Tatz)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 8:36am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-isnt-about-nerfing-its-about-balance/42223/142 "2018-07-17T08:36:33Z")
They already discussed lowering the half mana troops to 40%, tho I like your suggestion on raising the mana cost. They won’t be unusable as mentioned above. You need to build a different team around these troops, not just slap all of the high tiered together. ---
**Author:** ![Fourdottwoone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/fourdottwoone/32/66655_2.png) [@Fourdottwoone](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Fourdottwoone)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 9:30am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-isnt-about-nerfing-its-about-balance/42223/143 "2018-07-17T09:30:39Z")
> [@Tatz](#): > > They already discussed lowering the half mana troops to 40%, tho I like your suggestion on raising the mana cost. Lowering Ishbaala to 40% wouldn’t make much of a difference, Divine teams would still get too much of a jump start. Several Divine troops are able to one-shot troops, so once their spell is ready without a counter being available, only extraordinary luck will save you. Other half mana enablers (e.g. King Silenus, Forest Guardian) currently don’t pose a problem, they only empower troops that hurt, not troops that usually instantly win the match. Raising the mana cost of Divine troops isn’t a solution either, it would make them grossly overcosted when run without Ishbaala. I’d rather see some balance here, Ishbaala should neither make Divine troops unstoppable when included nor useless when not included. ---
**Author:** ![Grundulum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/82dd89/32.png) [@Grundulum](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Grundulum)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 10:24am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-isnt-about-nerfing-its-about-balance/42223/144 "2018-07-17T10:24:49Z")
^This^ is the issue as I see it. With a small handful of exceptions (Lord/Lady Ironbeard, I’m looking at you…), Highforge, Silenus and Forest Guardian don’t enable troops that can one-shot another troop. So Ishbaala is preferentially boosting troops that can turn the tide of battle with a single cast of their spell. So are these OHKO divine troops balanced with Ishbaala’s bonus, or are they balanced without it? For that matter, are Lord/Lady Ironbeard balanced before or after Highforge’s bonus? ---
**Author:** ![Fourdottwoone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/fourdottwoone/32/66655_2.png) [@Fourdottwoone](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Fourdottwoone)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 11:01am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-isnt-about-nerfing-its-about-balance/42223/145 "2018-07-17T11:01:04Z")
> [@Grundulum](#): > > So are these OHKO divine troops balanced with Ishbaala’s bonus, or are they balanced without it? For current balance I’d like to point out my personal Gnome Factor: - When a gnome replaces the Hero I face a tough fight, because Infernus/Ubastet wreak havoc after two matches. - When a gnome replaces Inernus I face a tough fight, because the Hero/Ubastet wreak havoc after two matches. - When a gnome replaces Ubastet I face a tough fight, because the Hero/Infernus wreak havoc after two matches. - When a gnome replaces Ishballa I face an easy fight, because neither the Hero nor Infernus nor Ubastet seem to get close to the danger zone before I’m ready for them. > [@Grundulum](#): > > For that matter, are Lord/Lady Ironbeard balanced before or after Highforge’s bonus? Lady Ironbeard is fairly easy to counter, whack her once with anything cheap and her triple damage tends to be turned off. Lord Ironbeard is one of the many lose ends, the spell was supposed to do triple damage if the targeted troop has lower attack value. Since that turned out to not work yet, the spell was “temporarily” altered to deal triple damage to red instead. Unfortunately, reverting the quick fix never seems to have ranked high on the priority list, which is really a shame considering all the attack lowering/raising troops that could be used for counter play. ---
**Author:** ![Razzagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/razzagor/32/50037_2.png) [@Razzagor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Razzagor)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 1:56pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-isnt-about-nerfing-its-about-balance/42223/146 "2018-07-17T13:56:34Z")
> [@Fourdottwoone](#): > > Lord Ironbeard is one of the many lose ends, the spell was supposed to do triple damage if the targeted troop has lower attack value. Since that turned out to not work yet, the spell was “temporarily” altered to deal triple damage to red instead. Unfortunately, reverting the quick fix never seems to have ranked high on the priority list, which is really a shame considering all the attack lowering/raising troops that could be used for counter play. I don’t think Lord Ironbeard would need a change. Having troops “hate-counter” others provides us with strategic choices to use specially where they are needed like Guild Wars and maybe some other challenges. Lord Ironbeard can one-shot some red troops, specially earlier thanks to King Highforge, but losing a single troops is manageable and you can still win, sometimes you can even prevent, survive and recover from the damage. But in the worst case you lose your troop we are talking about 25% loss of a team on let’s say 20ish% (just considering the six colors are more or less equally distributed) of all troops available, unlike “Ubs Divines” that are capable to wipeout 50% of a team of any color with a **very easy to achieve** condition. There are other troops capable of a conditional triple damage on targets, are they less used because there is nothing providing them wiith 50% starting mana? Yes. Should they also be changed? In my opinion no. Even with another troop helping the with 50% mana? Even so. Why? Because to me it really makes an intelligent and interesting meta, if the devs would finally create more troops like that, and fix the gnoll’s spell targeting, then it would be a matter of making better choices from the very basic concepts of team building in offense and defense, manipulating the board, managing buffs and debuffs, not simply “Lol random explosions and Sh#t Storms FTW!” like we have now. ---
**Author:** ![Wackpack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecccb3/32.png) [@Wackpack](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Wackpack)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 3:23am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-isnt-about-nerfing-its-about-balance/42223/147 "2018-07-18T03:23:06Z")
[quote=“Razzagor, post:146, topic:42223, full:true”] > [@Fourdottwoone](#): > > Should they also be changed? In my opinion no. > Even with another troop helping the with 50% mana? Even so. > Why? Because to me it really makes an intelligent and interesting meta, if the devs would finally create more troops like that, and fix the gnoll’s spell targeting, then it would be a matter of making better choices from the very basic concepts of team building in offense and defense, manipulating the board, managing buffs and debuffs, not simply “Lol random explosions and Sh#t Storms FTW!” like we have now. This is the change I’d like to see, but the one that seems most unlikely. Release half mana starts for the other troop types (preferably ones with existing hero classes), and this “issue” solves itself. ---
**Author:** ![Gouki](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/gouki/32/22405_2.png) [@Gouki](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Gouki)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 8:37am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-isnt-about-nerfing-its-about-balance/42223/148 "2018-07-18T08:37:23Z")
> [@Wackpack](#): > > This is the change I’d like to see, but the one that seems most unlikely. Release half mana starts for the other troop types (preferably ones with existing hero classes), and this “issue” solves itself. There are several of them around already with some not being played at all. I’d argue that even Ishbaala-less Divine teams would still trump most of the other trooptypes that currently have access to that 50% trait with regular pvp stats with Dwarfs really being the only ones that compete (and yeah they are red GW day champs). Not saying that these trooptypes are bad necessarily, just saying they are still leagues below Divines even with that 50% trait so i doubt giving it to all trooptypes will make the issue ‘solve itself’, not if every planet killer base mythic ends up being Divine. ---
**Author:** ![Jainus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jainus/32/34949_2.png) [@Jainus](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Jainus)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 8:43am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-isnt-about-nerfing-its-about-balance/42223/149 "2018-07-18T08:43:09Z")
> [@Gouki](#): > > every planet killer base mythic ends up being Divine Yeah just saw this uploaded into the spoilers… ![DeathStarMeme](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/6/4/64741ee6438d5ec5f5ae4c580c70789aad0db384.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Bolatsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/bolatsi/32/7182_2.png) [@Bolatsi](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Bolatsi)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 9:14am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-isnt-about-nerfing-its-about-balance/42223/150 "2018-07-18T09:14:49Z")
Balance is always broken. I don’t care. ---
**Author:** ![xolid99](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/xolid99/32/66856_2.png) [@xolid99](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/xolid99)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 9:24am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-isnt-about-nerfing-its-about-balance/42223/151 "2018-07-18T09:24:57Z")
At least we know where the weak spot is for the Death Star!😀 ---
**Author:** ![Butthurt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/butthurt/32/16576_2.png) [@Butthurt](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Butthurt)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 11:42am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-isnt-about-nerfing-its-about-balance/42223/152 "2018-07-18T11:42:45Z")
I’ve only just read this thread, but here’s a thought experiment for all the people who run the meta divine protector/infernus/ubaset/Ishbaala team: A poll for when you would stop running Ishbaala in your team, either to switch here for someone like Mercy/Diviner or to just not run the team. The options are cumulative with the choices above them. _Poll ([view on site](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-isnt-about-nerfing-its-about-balance/42223/152))_ ---
**Author:** ![Seadogg83](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@Seadogg83](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Seadogg83)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 12:10pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-isnt-about-nerfing-its-about-balance/42223/153 "2018-07-18T12:10:04Z")
This poll ignores the very basic fact that the only reason people use her is for her 3rd trait, and considering that you’ve suggested no nerf at all to the 3rd trait, no one would care, and everyone would continue using her. ---
**Author:** ![Gouki](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/gouki/32/22405_2.png) [@Gouki](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Gouki)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 12:34pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-isnt-about-nerfing-its-about-balance/42223/154 "2018-07-18T12:34:33Z")
> [@Seadogg83](#): > > This poll ignores the very basic fact that the only reason people use her is for her 3rd trait I don’t think this is entirely true, yes the trait is great but her spell is pure gold in a yellow Divine centered team. Double transformers(colour-\>coulour+colour-\>skulls) are among the strongest and most flexible spells in the game and you can build all kinds of well running teams around them, albeit not as powerful as this particular one. Personally if her spell was aweful, i’d replace her asap. ---
**Author:** ![Seadogg83](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@Seadogg83](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Seadogg83)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 12:35pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-isnt-about-nerfing-its-about-balance/42223/155 "2018-07-18T12:35:41Z")
I wouldn’t, as I rarely actually use her spell. ---
**Author:** ![Dvader911](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/dvader911/32/48209_2.png) [@Dvader911](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Dvader911)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 1:05pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-isnt-about-nerfing-its-about-balance/42223/156 "2018-07-18T13:05:06Z")
I fully agree with this! This is f\*\*\*ing absurd!!! Does ANYONE out there not use Infernus?? ![Same%20team](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/2/8/28f70fb2af5962ed34b7656b11da34ed71312403.jpg) And rest assured if there’s Infernus, there’s Divine Ishbaala right behind him and more often than not Ubastet is not far behind either. Never mind how absurdly OP those units are (especially Ubastet), but we’re getting to a point where EVERYONE uses them and you can’t even avoid fighting them. Can I defeat him? Meh… it’s 50-50. Am I getting sick & tired of ALWAYS facing Infernus. Hell yes!! Nerf all Divines! You had such great balance in the game before this Divines absurdity began. ---
**Author:** ![Lafella](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lafella/32/43099_2.png) [@Lafella](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lafella)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 1:05pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-isnt-about-nerfing-its-about-balance/42223/157 "2018-07-18T13:05:54Z")
Don’t think nerfing ubastet, infernus or ishbaala is necessary. However divine protector, beastly bow and wapons like them way to powerful for there manacost. Would like to see them have 24 mana cost, so they will be close to Stonehammer. [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-isnt-about-nerfing-its-about-balance/42223.md?page=6) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-isnt-about-nerfing-its-about-balance/42223.md?page=8)