# This is not a call out... just a screen shot from pvp

**URL:** <https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-is-not-a-call-out-just-a-screen-shot-from-pvp/82774>\
**Category:** Uncategorized\
**Created:** [January 4, 2024, 1:39pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-is-not-a-call-out-just-a-screen-shot-from-pvp/82774 "2024-01-04T13:39:03Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 6

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**Author:** ![Schaafy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47774/32.png) [@Schaafy](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Schaafy)\
**Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 7:07am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-is-not-a-call-out-just-a-screen-shot-from-pvp/82774/105 "2024-01-11T07:07:20Z")

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Oof, i think the lowest, highest option ive had was like mid 30s, and its pretty rare that im not offered at least mid-40’s VP

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Schaafy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47774/32.png) [@Schaafy](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Schaafy)\
**Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 7:08am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-is-not-a-call-out-just-a-screen-shot-from-pvp/82774/106 "2024-01-11T07:08:22Z")

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Honestly, all that needs to happen is that we should ALWAYS be offered a \<50, 50, and \>50 option, there would be very little to complain about if this was the case.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![TheIdleOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@TheIdleOne](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TheIdleOne)\
**Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 7:34am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-is-not-a-call-out-just-a-screen-shot-from-pvp/82774/107 "2024-01-11T07:34:06Z")

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> [@Kafka](#):
>
> ROB17 is choosing all the battles with the lowest VP awards

> [@Kafka](#):
>
> I’ve passed on the feedback about the point scaling according to hero level, but right now the big gaps I’ve looked into seem to be caused by the “easy” battles being chosen most of the time by the lower scoring player.

Before I say anything argumentative or rude by accident, I want to acknowledge and thank you for reading the post. Thanks.

But… in the nicest way possible, your entire post is wrong.

Cross reference how VP actually works:

> [@Equal PvP base VPs for all players please exclamation](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/equal-pvp-base-vps-for-all-players-please/82673/45):
>
> just in case, someone dont know the VP calculation
> 
> the level difference between you and opponent
> 
> - 50 is base VP
> - each 25 levels below you , -1VP
> - lowest is -25 VP, that mean more than 625 levels below make no difference
> - each 12.5 levels (maybe 12, 13 not sure) above you, +1VP
> - highest is +40VP, that mean +500 level reach maximum

So someone like ROB17 gets a minimum of 25 VP from any player that is level 1980 or less, which is a vast majority of players.

Of course it’s going to look like he chooses all the battles with the lowest VP awards. That’s all he gets!

Constructively speaking in the least amount of words:

**After a certain point, level does nothing to indicate a player’s strength, yet is the only factor in how many VP a player gets per battle.**

Meanwhile, for Adrian to receive a similar penalty, he would have to go as low as Level 1064, which is quite avoidable in the current state of the game.

In the politest way possible, I need you to understand what’s going on before feedback gets passed on.

If you can dev account a level 2500 and play some pvp in a live setting, you’ll see the VP being heavily painful to go through. Level 2500 is being generous, anyone level 1800+ can start feeling the effects.

I can provide more screenshots from my current level at 2014, but after the first 2-3, it’d be major redundancy.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Kafka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/kafka/32/33529_2.png) [@Kafka](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Kafka)\
**Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 7:34am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-is-not-a-call-out-just-a-screen-shot-from-pvp/82774/108 "2024-01-11T07:34:12Z")

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Just an update:  
It’s possible these discrepencies are unintended (bugged).  
The team are looking over it all at the moment and will get back to me once they find out why this discrepency exists.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Kafka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/kafka/32/33529_2.png) [@Kafka](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Kafka)\
**Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 7:37am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-is-not-a-call-out-just-a-screen-shot-from-pvp/82774/109 "2024-01-11T07:37:17Z")

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> [@TheIdleOne](#):
>
> In the politest way possible, I need you to understand what’s going on before feedback gets passed on.

I try to pass on major issues/feedback like this as quickly as possible while seeking more information. So for example, the screenshot was helpful from Dwuemka because it means I don’t need anyone to run server tests to get the info we need, but I was able to pass on what the community was saying before having this information.

It also means that as a team - if someone on the team sees the report and knows exactly what is happening, it means cutting time to look into it because the information reached someone who knew what part of the code/design to look at.

I will never withold important information from the team, and we continue to gather as much information as necessary after informing them to assist until it’s resolved.

The feedback was:  
Higher level players receive far less VP in their opponent selection than players lower level than them and it’s causing a large scoring discrepency.

Everything after that is us investigating details and non-judgementally working out where the discrepency is coming from, _with evidence_. ie. the Leaderboard screenshots showed what was bothering everyone, but it didn’t tell us what was happening. It was just showing that discrepencies existed - and we still need to find exactly where those are, with evidence.

And you are all super fast so I can ask you for a screenshot, before a designer or programmer can run tests, or check the implementation and design of the feature. So I will always ask for screenshots if it’s easy for you to grab and we always appreciate it! 🙏

Having said that the team still need to check the implementation of VP and the live game data now to find out the source of the issue, but the screenshot just helps, because I can show them hey these are the opponents and here is the discrepency on the leaderboard.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Schaafy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47774/32.png) [@Schaafy](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Schaafy)\
**Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 7:49am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-is-not-a-call-out-just-a-screen-shot-from-pvp/82774/110 "2024-01-11T07:49:40Z")

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I would just like to reiterate that the fundamental flaw is that player level is a terrible measure for how tough/rewarding a fight is. Im level 1500 with a team score of just over 20,000 and there are MANY people in the mid 2000’s that will give me 90 VP, even though on paper they are weaker than me. Basing the VP on team score would be a much better measure than player level, though not perfect as it would still punish those who have invested the most. Also, it feels REALLY bad to get an offer of 40,43,45 followed by 80,90,90 for example. Whatever algorithm is picking the fights to be displayed, it needs to do a better job of always giving a low score, middle score, high score option.

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**Author:** ![Avathar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/avathar/32/33071_2.png) [@Avathar](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Avathar)\
**Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 7:57am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-is-not-a-call-out-just-a-screen-shot-from-pvp/82774/111 "2024-01-11T07:57:10Z")

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@Kafka I went ahead and made screenshots of my opponent choice in all ten pvp locations. I’m level 1888 currently, as you see unless I run into the rare level 2400+ players the base VP is really low:

 ![Screenshot_20240111_075232](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/2/a/2adf1525a8e908858efa380302a8781e911bf109.jpeg)  
 ![Screenshot_20240111_075212](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/6/a/6a70a67e7c25c655400140596751bc36aae5a2f9.jpeg)  
 ![Screenshot_20240111_075146](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/1/2/12a2773224ec9ffb0951a7a4f24d0bb3d3d4362a.jpeg)  
 ![Screenshot_20240111_075126](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/5/f/5f3c1359a16b4b51a49ad1790df569d1b655cc64.jpeg)  
 ![Screenshot_20240111_075103](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/1/1/1153222d8394e78a0f2f8854e98af5dabd9eb0bd.jpeg)  
 ![Screenshot_20240111_075407](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/a/3/a339ec4df0f1cfbebff404a698ab28c02b435413.jpeg)  
 ![Screenshot_20240111_075353](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/6/e/6e1377d9c2bd3aef4662f98aadd966f1f47806d4.jpeg)  
 ![Screenshot_20240111_075336](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/2/0/20f3962ab3615c08f7ad4c8bb14cd7eb8da48797.jpeg)  
 ![Screenshot_20240111_075317](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/d/4/d446eeb2a75eb68d62d94ca1b9cfd3880ae4a55c.jpeg)  
 ![Screenshot_20240111_075250](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/c/3/c326933ecec23a387fdf89d8b8d82597e8e74590.jpeg)

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![TheIdleOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@TheIdleOne](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TheIdleOne)\
**Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 8:02am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-is-not-a-call-out-just-a-screen-shot-from-pvp/82774/112 "2024-01-11T08:02:21Z")

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![Unknown-2024_01_11-07_39_26](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/3/7/37fe4219effdb58e650891b2584184beb11e943c.jpeg)  
 ![Unknown-2024_01_11-07_40_16](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/5/2/52944ee2b797964b021873a516686a5d431be29d.jpeg)  
 ![Unknown-2024_01_11-07_41_01](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/0/8/08e2a15f3fc0a1f0611e045eecb87977ff41d631.jpeg)  
 ![Unknown-2024_01_11-07_41_44](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/1/8/18708dbe3e9c25c0d036f07fa46d23617f0f3eeb.jpeg)  
 ![Unknown-2024_01_11-07_42_27](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/d/1/d16e8a35f7fe05bd2eb275c60e2a38c8f11cb538.jpeg)  
 ![Unknown-2024_01_11-07_43_00](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/b/1/b18aa621a4f8d05fc79c138b0a9d842f7b062093.jpeg)  
 ![Unknown-2024_01_11-07_43_29](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/b/f/bfc6a6c6860675a578718d913e32d624ec0cdfb1.jpeg)  
 ![Unknown-2024_01_11-07_44_05](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/9/a/9adaa4ff733d0057c544bcd893fd78dbe85ced75.jpeg)  
 ![Unknown-2024_01_11-07_44_48](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/c/e/cede038d273d19df30e16b8dcc35554316c6722c.jpeg)  
 ![Unknown-2024_01_11-07_45_48](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/a/4/a462e4f8251b77ab58f295e91fa34e1f02ec2936.jpeg)  
 ![Unknown-2024_01_11-07_47_15](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/f/6/f669d2f00b07364c1841813f71b71d9ca5242ba8.jpeg)

These are my last 11 fights.

In screenshot 3, screenshot 8, and screenshot 10, the highest level players offer the most VP, even if they’re not the strongest team score.

This has been a relatively productive 11 fights. On other times of the day, I’m stuck with Screenshot 4s for multiple fights with near base levels and I’m better off playing a different game. I’m stuck if higher level players aren’t on.

On the other hand, I make for an attractive target at level 2,014. I’m 46 wins and 1,730 losses on defense, not that I can control any of that anymore. Current 3rd place on the leaderboard has 270 defense losses, and 7th place on the leaderboard has 199 losses. They’re not attractive targets!

* * *

it’s a multilayered problem:

1. base scoring leaves higher level players in a bad spot
2. opponent choice is based on player pool. I don’t know if the player has to be logged in to show up or had to have play in x amount of prior hours to show up. They’re not always there.  
2.5. how the system chooses the 3 opponents. this is where I’m not going to comment, because saying pick better opponents! doesn’t actually control how this function works. that’s backend stuff.

and then its 1+2 together at the same time.  
…

Now if only I had Dave all day to fight, I wouldn’t have to do double the fights that others do.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Dwuemka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/dwuemka/32/67058_2.png) [@Dwuemka](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Dwuemka)\
**Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 8:09am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-is-not-a-call-out-just-a-screen-shot-from-pvp/82774/113 "2024-01-11T08:09:15Z")

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Many people say that basing the VP score on team score will be more fair. Yes - and no. At a certain point in the game, when the collection of weapons and troops, and pets is nearly full & mostly upgraded, and classes are all maxed out - the differences in team score are practically non-existent. Players at level 1700+ (like my main account, 4.5 years old, troops collection full except underspire sentinels, classes maxed, weapons all upgraded except some doomed ones, most pets except cosmetics at lvl 20) and a player level 2500+ (say, they have all weapons maxed, and more pets maxed than I have) won’t have double the team score, but what, maybe a couple hundred? At some point it just flattens out.

Using ONLY team score as the baseline won’t be fair either, not to the players at, say, 1600-1700 hero level and higher. At some point the team score practically stops increasing. And beyond some point hero level has practically zero impact on team score.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![TheIdleOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@TheIdleOne](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TheIdleOne)\
**Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 8:13am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-is-not-a-call-out-just-a-screen-shot-from-pvp/82774/114 "2024-01-11T08:13:03Z")

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Yeah I still stand by my opinion:

My opinion: At this point, VP handicaps need to end at level 1500 and everyone should get the same VP from level 1500 and onwards.

Zuul’Goth doesn’t care how much stats an opponent has. 😄  
Neither does Essence of Evil.  
Neither does Leprechaun.  
Centuragon does though. The more the better. nom nom.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Dwuemka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/dwuemka/32/67058_2.png) [@Dwuemka](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Dwuemka)\
**Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 9:49am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-is-not-a-call-out-just-a-screen-shot-from-pvp/82774/115 "2024-01-11T09:49:05Z")

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A few more screenshots - I just went around the regions. Here we go…

From a lvl 1723 account:

![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/d/e/ded9c9056ef5baf9f4c3d0b643ead5894f80231e.jpeg)  
 ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/2/0/200d3c09f4cc4b0ec0039d713e17aff117798be7.jpeg)  
 ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/a/2/a22e3d3b03e500ec9318413a41692433223c647b.jpeg)  
 ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/a/f/af59b7f4f06ceaad99b0ab4abaf107b2ebe6cded.jpeg)  
 ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/6/5/654387afafc036760a24e5ba7c29874171a7cb62.jpeg)  
 ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/d/c/dc0b4c64460d7ae78673736739d3fc0ea6a8fe67.jpeg)  
 ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/9/4/94136ef78c23be22c519fe187ab35f8aa526c994.jpeg)  
 ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/3/f/3f05a228f18713629379b3b887a8f2f93d90267e.jpeg)  
 ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/5/b/5bd01918c51d03931fe0b228ad52c0f9fe0b3d8b.jpeg)  
 ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/f/1/f142c7fca7182ccf6ba1ea5a2dfa2c916230822a.jpeg)

From a lvl 1408 account, all 10 regions:

 ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/3/8/388d6f5499b2ed590e6e4c9bb0df1912d54c095d.jpeg)  
 ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/a/6/a6da7a961671152f88e475d01aedf78a12417ef3.jpeg)  
 ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/3/1/310345bc43879cb69c854deefb6569ab3d8c0909.jpeg)  
 ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/8/6/8626ecc9103d966480447468a7a7fd408e309dac.jpeg)  
 ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/4/9/49c7cfa261b98489a80c342a0c1665119029a372.jpeg)  
 ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/c/3/c3d09f2f2a90f8461d14d445cc590681338c2d28.jpeg)  
 ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/a/0/a0683e08578b5fe0fcd7fd49a18a20713713625e.jpeg)  
 ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/4/1/418682cfdf27784ddc9e87c69fa04c072c9a66b4.jpeg)  
 ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/5/f/5fa3fe1ad5422a0fa0ea8a6ad1af3d0ae59c6080.jpeg)  
 ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/a/6/a6e390c031337250d0b04df2e47bd124f2dad770.jpeg)

PLEASE PLEASE tell me you can see the difference between what is offered for both accounts. And now think - if that’s the difference between offerings for a 1408 and 1723 player (so, a difference of 300 levels), imagine what players at 2000 or higher are getting…

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![RootsSeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@RootsSeed](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/RootsSeed)\
**Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 1:02pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-is-not-a-call-out-just-a-screen-shot-from-pvp/82774/116 "2024-01-11T13:02:47Z")

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> **Summary**
>
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_093820106](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/f/5/f54f42ccf1afc383eabdb3edaddc32e9efc6bdfd.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_093836010](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/0/b/0b8146506f2ab0ff7d72337c820acc8fd612281d.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_093940540](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/d/6/d60dc7ad0cff3bde413c53f4811236f2cd31ffbf.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_094015147](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/8/7/87f1c08487c4b6efada532e1bd90ccdf5175ae1a.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_094059788](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/e/8/e83a60b2bfb601b5586e9fb72ca39c592332d5c1.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_094200817](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/5/b/5b7a1cf97684aa871d51c6dc77ba1a5b1d01199f.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_094255455](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/f/f/ffe0508fd2ecda6ef42065638ddfe77e8cbdf317.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_094340903](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/a/7/a7109e6581da9c380f4e7f5b32d637be0c522068.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_094425315](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/5/4/54c85777930f15329584fbcbb53ccc5d446f9768.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_094512695](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/0/9/09a4dbc6ed4d250b8d12a2f247a707d4c9373efe.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_094604671](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/1/f/1fedcf9ccf30ec101383ac861b131165c1b213e0.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_094648752](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/1/9/1916a01e3af180faf1cb45431263877477ab8da0.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_094754513](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/8/3/83a43c6c48adcaa54e24d961714ed0a0570fffc5.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_094835299](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/f/3/f33faaad6bc411d2ee70e7782686ca3a1111833c.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_094916074](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/3/6/36b4bfd783db54d0fb272f91c98a08dd52dacc5b.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_094958285](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/9/1/913fd199ae605192dd61b15e7327d014d1af0e9f.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_095049631](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/f/9/f9b1873c2e959e4e38fad82b7435f8f9d05fb93a.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_095131120](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/f/b/fbb611993a8f888cb74693ec700e67ee794fda48.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_095208684](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/f/4/f4ea07f318ebc03353ea89b146659834225e0645.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_095252031](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/b/a/baef8891b5b82afaa62cd81703d4d67ff5ecebda.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_095412204](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/4/1/4190d7479070ddb590b8e1f6cd6199cf9cc13880.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_095509581](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/d/9/d9eeb7dbf181091600d8b3313c19cc7072d84e9a.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_095621363](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/e/a/ea8d160de7ed993095f46ab2026c41769aaf4ec0.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_095654823](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/7/c/7c09a8f607f47a03aecccc514af502dc2f860d9c.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_095734264](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/f/5/f5c391289aad8560ede61467cab878257536b17c.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_095817223](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/2/5/25f89def54d7430e4beeb3d010e3899f3ee3f96e.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_095855589](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/f/e/fe3e6a58dbeec60088d946f19cd66d14ea92b7d9.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_100001499](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/c/e/cea7632ed33e198d20ba2bc8f6cec70e6953af30.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_100039385](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/c/4/c4219e5f7109af241420b6ef65d299a53156fd8b.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_100117311](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/0/0/009bc7bd7e2369d9196b71084203f9d3224a2bb5.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_100149214](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/7/f/7f86b96abb48797eb066d520549daee572fec7bf.png)

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![RootsSeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@RootsSeed](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/RootsSeed)\
**Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 1:21pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-is-not-a-call-out-just-a-screen-shot-from-pvp/82774/117 "2024-01-11T13:21:40Z")

</div>

> **Summary**
>
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_100717050](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/a/a/aa20c164fb2f5d11358a7cf67bafb6572e65a900.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_100805438](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/0/e/0efc483eaf619a50ec62cc910c7f1c660f3b5f00.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_100841499](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/b/8/b8c9c02a12e88e71197fa86fd5b091a4ad156cab.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_100921508](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/6/6/6674ea391bdf8e487bc088c34412698f3758b04c.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_100955752](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/c/5/c590f9f7eb8b0c435f47386323b3d9405366f9f7.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_101036835](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/9/e/9e3286303df1d1a295a9f51ab57c472a23dc915c.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_101109359](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/8/6/8644f28345610a35da53fd9cde443b854b084f93.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_101151070](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/5/a/5a296a2ac6102da61ffd0acceaf152f0b97c4b13.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_101240333](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/4/c/4c139895e464149c88848b92dc0230560db39ea6.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_101318491](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/8/7/87cfa1e1ed255bd1d95e60c887b876ec8859950c.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_101353046](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/2/1/216440c236bfe6b6b5860fb8a1ab2df5fa453d08.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_101437490](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/4/e/4e0f5869513fa4bbf5f63b8aec6a5f751e57255c.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_101515533](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/8/1/81e631ee7a82a6fdaf3d417b59efe3747cbd41df.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_101558155](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/c/1/c1d04c47bcb7e46b3122d87732833bbe98d56950.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_101638002](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/6/d/6ddeb0fffce4d3c6a94a602cfeb390f241d3c55c.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_101711172](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/3/d/3dea8edef7df6a9b5667aa098f721e2a49805227.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_101745053](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/2/4/2428f41c58850b2c18bfe663756051b0b591ede3.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_101823188](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/8/9/8913cd39b97bb72410eaba325c7042e4964d66a8.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_101914509](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/9/d/9d4ea0e61c820a3607256c55bff67b0b3e2088c6.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_102012206](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/e/b/ebbcb1b6cdf2666fda5591132a9d8d90db85b07b.png)  
> ![imagem_2024-01-11_102047605](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/e/8/e899902cf40757c0ae7c36018e2eb1512892a89f.png)

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![FuriousPete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dbc845/32.png) [@FuriousPete](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/FuriousPete)\
**Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 2:42pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-is-not-a-call-out-just-a-screen-shot-from-pvp/82774/118 "2024-01-11T14:42:07Z")

</div>

![20240111_153919](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/8/0/80a5f32cf1949976c7b0e27b449fab4aa0d66b38.jpeg)

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Dust\_Angel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/dust_angel/32/35256_2.png) [@Dust\_Angel](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Dust_Angel)\
**Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 3:51pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-is-not-a-call-out-just-a-screen-shot-from-pvp/82774/119 "2024-01-11T15:51:49Z")

</div>

> [@Kafka](#):
>
> Nope, I checked his PVP data,

Could you, please, specify if this _PvP data_ you’re referring to includes all battles presented to a player or only the ones that they actually fought?

Anyhow, as luck would have it I was tracking some PvP battles (for a different reason, though), but here you can have all 111 that it took me this time to reach 20 PvP goals (and, doubtless, I always chose the highest option that was offered).  
I’m level 2229, by the way, and this was the highest number I had to do so far - another week was 99 battles and the third one has slipped my mind but it was fewer that 111.

> **Summary**
>
> | # | Player level | | | | Base VP | | | | Final score | Bonus points |
> | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
> | | 1 | 2 | 3 | | 1 | 2 | 3 | | | |
> | | | | | | | | | | | |
> | 1 | 1355 | 1503 | 1622 | | 25 | 25 | 38 | | 65 | 27 |
> | 2 | 1064 | 1266 | 1757 | | 25 | 25 | 31 | | 55 | 24 |
> | 3 | 1105 | 1506 | 1465 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 50 | 25 |
> | 4 | 1058 | 1245 | 1271 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 51 | 26 |
> | 5 | 1354 | 1387 | 1765 | | 25 | 25 | 31 | | 62 | 31 |
> | 6 | 1552 | 1670 | 2478 | | 25 | 28 | 69 | | 100 | 31 |
> | 7 | 1297 | 1394 | 1569 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 60 | 35 |
> | 8 | 1115 | 1737 | 1512 | | 25 | 30 | 25 | | 64 | 34 |
> | 9 | 1310 | 1477 | 1743 | | 25 | 25 | 31 | | 61 | 30 |
> | 10 | 1096 | 1310 | 1466 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 60 | 35 |
> | 11 | 1271 | 1595 | 1661 | | 25 | 25 | 27 | | 59 | 32 |
> | 12 | 1209 | 1372 | 1443 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 54 | 29 |
> | 13 | 1226 | 1333 | 1464 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 49 | 24 |
> | 14 | 1523 | 2070 | 2077 | | 25 | 44 | 44 | | 76 | 32 |
> | 15 | 1426 | 1436 | 1632 | | 25 | 25 | 26 | | 58 | 32 |
> | 16 | 1453 | 1477 | 1504 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 54 | 29 |
> | 17 | 1491 | 1368 | 1941 | | 25 | 25 | 38 | | 66 | 28 |
> | 18 | 1183 | 1434 | 1559 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 46 | 21 |
> | 19 | 1265 | 1533 | 1811 | | 25 | 25 | 33 | | 59 | 26 |
> | 20 | 1297 | 1280 | 1449 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 51 | 26 |
> | 21 | 2077 | 1613 | 2077 | | 44 | 25 | 44 | | 73 | 29 |
> | 22 | 1620 | 1422 | 1547 | | 26 | 25 | 25 | | 58 | 32 |
> | 23 | 1474 | 1666 | 1458 | | 25 | 27 | 25 | | 59 | 32 |
> | 24 | 1190 | 1422 | 1474 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 57 | 32 |
> | 25 | 1458 | 1481 | 1888 | | 25 | 25 | 36 | | 65 | 29 |
> | 26 | 1236 | 1250 | 1403 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 59 | 34 |
> | 27 | 1069 | 1389 | 1649 | | 25 | 25 | 27 | | 47 | 20 |
> | 28 | 1346 | 1443 | 1547 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 53 | 28 |
> | 29 | 1119 | 1113 | 1512 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 51 | 26 |
> | 30 | 1176 | 1301 | 1595 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 48 | 23 |
> | 31 | 1499 | 1693 | 1443 | | 25 | 29 | 25 | | 58 | 29 |
> | 32 | 1056 | 1164 | 1714 | | 25 | 25 | 29 | | 61 | 32 |
> | 33 | 1087 | 1256 | 1407 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 57 | 32 |
> | 34 | 1056 | 1444 | 1706 | | 25 | 25 | 29 | | 60 | 31 |
> | 35 | 1087 | 1582 | 1476 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 50 | 25 |
> | 36 | 1173 | 1479 | 1517 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 59 | 34 |
> | 37 | 1557 | 1575 | 1579 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 59 | 34 |
> | 38 | 1334 | 1365 | 1604 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 59 | 34 |
> | 39 | 2070 | 1592 | 1832 | | 44 | 25 | 34 | | 79 | 35 |
> | 40 | 1200 | 1525 | 1492 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 60 | 35 |
> | 41 | 1394 | 1595 | 1823 | | 25 | 25 | 34 | | 53 | 19 |
> | 42 | 1360 | 1356 | 1740 | | 25 | 25 | 30 | | 61 | 31 |
> | 43 | 1287 | 1553 | 1466 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 51 | 26 |
> | 44 | 1245 | 1348 | 1592 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 45 | 20 |
> | 45 | 1342 | 1349 | 2423 | | 25 | 25 | 65 | | 94 | 29 |
> | 46 | 1172 | 1527 | 1898 | | 25 | 25 | 37 | | 65 | 28 |
> | 47 | 1675 | 1634 | 1705 | | 28 | 26 | 29 | | 58 | 29 |
> | 48 | 1779 | 1962 | 2999 | | 32 | 39 | 90 | | 120 | 30 |
> | 49 | 1311 | 1474 | 1514 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 56 | 31 |
> | 50 | 1558 | 1827 | 1791 | | 25 | 34 | 32 | | 67 | 33 |
> | 51 | 1146 | 1445 | 1473 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 47 | 22 |
> | 52 | 1387 | 1247 | 1710 | | 25 | 25 | 29 | | 51 | 22 |
> | 53 | 1033 | 1336 | 1574 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 47 | 22 |
> | 54 | 1387 | 1627 | 1665 | | 25 | 26 | 27 | | 51 | 24 |
> | 55 | 1005 | 1480 | 1385 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 50 | 25 |
> | 56 | 1259 | 1360 | 2648 | | 25 | 25 | 81 | | 108 | 27 |
> | 57 | 1346 | 1404 | 1543 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 51 | 26 |
> | 58 | 1014 | 1365 | 1627 | | 25 | 25 | 26 | | 36 | 10 |
> | 59 | 1159 | 1267 | 1517 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 52 | 27 |
> | 60 | 1014 | 1424 | 1502 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 47 | 22 |
> | 61 | 1392 | 1356 | 1579 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 50 | 25 |
> | 62 | 1231 | 1387 | 1522 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 43 | 18 |
> | 63 | 1287 | 1441 | 1795 | | 25 | 25 | 33 | | 53 | 20 |
> | 64 | 1087 | 1437 | 1755 | | 25 | 25 | 31 | | 48 | 17 |
> | 65 | 1231 | 1159 | 1271 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 54 | 29 |
> | 66 | 1737 | 1709 | 2074 | | 30 | 29 | 44 | | 62 | 18 |
> | 67 | 1102 | 1527 | 1501 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 55 | 30 |
> | 68 | 1326 | 1408 | 1951 | | 25 | 25 | 39 | | 68 | 29 |
> | 69 | 1485 | 1592 | 1633 | | 25 | 25 | 26 | | 53 | 27 |
> | 70 | 1223 | 1373 | 1673 | | 25 | 25 | 28 | | 54 | 26 |
> | 71 | 1164 | 1858 | 1543 | | 25 | 35 | 25 | | 63 | 28 |
> | 72 | 1213 | 1493 | 1515 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 57 | 32 |
> | 73 | 1097 | 1301 | 1568 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 50 | 25 |
> | 74 | 1355 | 1760 | 1702 | | 25 | 31 | 29 | | 63 | 32 |
> | 75 | 1055 | 1209 | 1290 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 57 | 32 |
> | 76 | 1220 | 1311 | 1497 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 46 | 21 |
> | 77 | 1524 | 1575 | 1508 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 44 | 19 |
> | 78 | 1341 | 1337 | 1767 | | 25 | 25 | 32 | | 59 | 27 |
> | 79 | 1503 | 1542 | 1677 | | 25 | 25 | 28 | | 46 | 18 |
> | 80 | 1313 | 1413 | 1464 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 43 | 18 |
> | 81 | 1014 | 1156 | 1574 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 48 | 23 |
> | 82 | 1191 | 1503 | 1618 | | 25 | 25 | 26 | | 58 | 32 |
> | 83 | 1504 | 1649 | 1884 | | 25 | 27 | 36 | | 65 | 29 |
> | 84 | 1249 | 1329 | 1414 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 55 | 30 |
> | 85 | 1013 | 1401 | 1488 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 44 | 19 |
> | 86 | 1308 | 1526 | 1769 | | 25 | 25 | 32 | | 54 | 22 |
> | 87 | 1111 | 1395 | 1505 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 53 | 28 |
> | 88 | 1200 | 1331 | 1707 | | 25 | 25 | 29 | | 48 | 19 |
> | 89 | 1163 | 1502 | 1871 | | 25 | 25 | 36 | | 62 | 26 |
> | 90 | 1592 | 1707 | 1510 | | 25 | 29 | 25 | | 50 | 21 |
> | 91 | 1086 | 1404 | 1313 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 53 | 28 |
> | 92 | 1071 | 1468 | 2105 | | 25 | 25 | 45 | | 66 | 21 |
> | 93 | 1061 | 1040 | 1734 | | 25 | 25 | 30 | | 52 | 22 |
> | 94 | 1246 | 1571 | 1535 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 53 | 28 |
> | 95 | 1254 | 1598 | 2105 | | 25 | 25 | 45 | | 73 | 28 |
> | 96 | 1787 | 1953 | 1803 | | 25 | 39 | 33 | | 68 | 29 |
> | 97 | 1305 | 1783 | 2251 | | 25 | 32 | 52 | | 78 | 26 |
> | 98 | 1240 | 1202 | 1618 | | 25 | 25 | 26 | | 58 | 32 |
> | 99 | 1448 | 1521 | 2251 | | 25 | 25 | 52 | | 73 | 21 |
> | 100 | 1216 | 1588 | 1779 | | 25 | 25 | 32 | | 55 | 23 |
> | 101 | 1057 | 1135 | 1827 | | 25 | 25 | 34 | | 63 | 29 |
> | 102 | 1772 | 1564 | 1565 | | 32 | 25 | 25 | | 63 | 31 |
> | 103 | 1689 | 1580 | 1542 | | 28 | 25 | 25 | | 60 | 32 |
> | 104 | 1588 | 1537 | 1423 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 57 | 32 |
> | 105 | 1261 | 1234 | 1556 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 54 | 29 |
> | 106 | 1432 | 1574 | 2622 | | 25 | 25 | 79 | | 111 | 32 |
> | 107 | 1232 | 1509 | 1833 | | 25 | 25 | 34 | | 69 | 35 |
> | 108 | 1219 | 1370 | 2119 | | 25 | 25 | 46 | | 78 | 32 |
> | 109 | 1196 | 1467 | 1535 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 56 | 31 |
> | 110 | 1232 | 1396 | 1648 | | 25 | 25 | 27 | | 62 | 35 |
> | 111 | 1249 | 1402 | 1437 | | 25 | 25 | 25 | | 48 | 23 |

For a summary, average offered enemy level for me was 1482 (compared to my 2229) and average base VP was 27.6 shiny points.  
With a little bit more of easy counting you can see that 255 out of 333 battles (or - almost 77% of the total) were with 25 base VP. Surely, the situation would be even worse looking for higher level players.

And, while you’re at it, who was the wiseguy to arrange battles according to teamscore which is an artefact of the old system and completely irrelevant in the new environment?  
Battles should always be presented in Low VP - Mid VP - High VP order (and then you can decide for a tie-breaker in case of equal VP) as any other order just serves to cause accidentally entering a lower paying fight you’d never start voluntarily.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![ANGI](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@ANGI](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/ANGI)\
**Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 3:52pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-is-not-a-call-out-just-a-screen-shot-from-pvp/82774/120 "2024-01-11T15:52:24Z")

</div>

There is no issue with it:  
It is working as intended!  
Sorry, had to post as I waited so long to change sides with you.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Mithran](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mithran/32/18064_2.png) [@Mithran](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mithran)\
**Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 9:16pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-is-not-a-call-out-just-a-screen-shot-from-pvp/82774/121 "2024-01-11T21:16:58Z")

</div>

> [@Dust\_Angel](#):
>
> And, while you’re at it, who was the wiseguy to arrange battles according to teamscore which is an artefact of the old system and completely irrelevant in the new environment?

Honestly this is part of the problem, but I think in the other direction. Player level is a useless metric that never needed to be brought into the equation (they are already represented _within_ score calc, but with extreme diminishing returns such that a lot of the _worst_ discrepancies get normalized if just the score metric is used). Score differential is _still_ used to calculate gold payouts, so the rightmost team still has the highest gold payout, and also the new matchmaking for frequently spits out teams that have higher _score_ compared to what the previous one was, at least in my experience. Since you 2000+ level crowd are _also_ likely to be at the higher end of the score spectrum, high level does correlate to high score but the only thing high level is measuring is number of battles, and doing a lot of battles is not in an of itself an indicator of either a highly developed account or a someone with enough “skill” that needs to get handicapped.

Pure speculation, but I think that maybe someone pitched that higher account level correlated with having stronger tools in your collection, something that can’t be effectively directly measured, when the reality is that having stronger tools correlates _more closely_ to having a more _developed_ account, ie more stat bonuses, which is just Team Score again. And also not all tools are created equal - my Zuul at level \< 1500 and team score of ~16000 work just as well as anybody elses. And also that not all _playtime_ is equal, because me grabbing weekly low hanging fruit rewards for almost every week since release matters a lot more than someone who has been grinding their butt off for 10+ hours a day for 2 years straight. Plus, player level penalizing scoring actively punishes a different recently added incentive to get xp boosters and grind xp, which was already _super_ weak.

I just don’t understand what going to “level” as the metric to determine baseline Victory Points versus Team Score did for the old PvP points “solves”, as it just takes the same problem and makes it at least twice as bad as the _worse_ for the uncapped PvP point issue before even that was patched. I also don’t get why a system would even be designed to, _on paper_, have two accounts with the ability to leverage similar amounts of “power” have an average scoring gap of almost 2x. By treating being every single level being equal in terms of power disparity and applying that to a linear score formula, of course you are going to get undesirable results. By having one metric determine gold payouts and another determine Victory Points then organizing them in a specific way and having _that_ order determine trophies and glory payout, of course there is going to be weirdness. It should be consistent, and given the metrics of either team score or player level to go by, team score is the far better one, so just use that.

Using team score as the baseline metric for both point scoring and gold payouts scoring gets us part of the way there, and would probably be an acceptable solution. If Victory Points were just bottom capped based on slot offering similarly to how PvP payout points were as it worked at the end of the old system, there would be much fewer complaints. An minimum offering of 70 in the rightmost slot past a certain point when 90 is possible but your stats are also such that you can squeeze a bit of efficiency out of each battle is much more “fair” than the offering being for in the low 30s points. There is only so much you can do to accelerate battles and nothing you can do to accelerate the time between battles, which becomes more and more significant the further you push the boundaries. Thus, it stands to reason there **must be a minimum payout for your strongest opponent offered, at all levels**.

Now, could this system be gamed where the lower level/lower score person _technically_ has a time advantage above the person with higher stats? Well, yes, in areas where you can field troops that take stats largely out of the equations. In some areas, the people with massive stat bonuses have more of an advantage to leverage those stats into being able to ignore the opponent doing stuff while setting up your win (the biggest disparity is in defensive stats). However, some of these areas are miserably slow no matter how high your stats are. And thats still a 30% difference between the minimum you can get and the maximum someone else can get for that slot in the rightmost battle, but they also won’t get that every time, and the bonuses are still a factor. This is probably a good target to shoot for. The next step would be to smooth the curve completely past a certain point, but that would result in a lot of players in the 1500 +/- 100 level range _losing_ some bonuses while still having to deal with opponents that can be twice their stats. Or, more relevantly, twice the _defense_ stats of an opponent they _could have got_ that would have given the same payout. Personally I think this swings to far in the other direction.

Honestly, and this is veering slightly off topic but still relevant, what I would have _liked_ to have seen is far higher victory point bonuses in the regions that had restrictions, with the highest bonuses being for being restricted to a single kingdom (mostly because of the weapon restriction), then troop type, and finally color, reflecting the relative difficulty of making a fast and effective team in the region. I can only imagine what will happen to some these regions once Elemenalist is unleashed on them and makes certain fast strategies completely unviable and just everything slower in general. Relevant to the discussion at hand because the ability to effectively play in these different regions _is_ a much better indicator of both the players ability to navigate the challenges of the game and how developed their account is.

Basically:

- Ditch player level differential to determine base PvP point payout and go back to team score differential (OR completely redo the player level curve so that disparities in level start mattering a lot less by level 1500 or so)
- Minimum cap the VP payout to which slot offering it is similar to what the old PvP system did.
- If necessary flatten the curve a bit so score discrepancies matter less (19k vs 20k does not have the same power discrepancy as 1k vs 2k)
- Bonus victory points for playing in a restricted region (starting next season when heros get unleashed) to further incentive playing these regions where occasionally having higher stats is a bit more meaningful.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![TheTruth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/thetruth/32/95516_2.png) [@TheTruth](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TheTruth)\
**Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 9:26pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-is-not-a-call-out-just-a-screen-shot-from-pvp/82774/122 "2024-01-11T21:26:15Z")

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I’m going to go in a completely different direction here over points scoring.

Hey Kafka

How about the win points based on the opponents troops.

Base Rarity

Boss troops 30 points  
Mythics. 25 points  
Legendary. 20 points  
Epic. 15 points  
Ultra rare. 10 points  
Rare/common. 5 points

Hero. 25 points.

Then everyone knows the points, and what they’ll get.

Just a different view, that might work.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![ANGI](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@ANGI](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/ANGI)\
**Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 9:32pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-is-not-a-call-out-just-a-screen-shot-from-pvp/82774/123 "2024-01-11T21:32:04Z")

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I think player level is for sure the wrong idea, team score might be better.  
Only other thing I can think of is Player’s kingdom stars, cause it includes classes, enough troops/pets/weapons, underworld renown (stats) and PL and KL of kingdoms (stats).  
But that is basically how team score is calculated, just a little more detailed and would maybe benefit lower level players more than just team score…just my two cents.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Lucien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lucien/32/75325_2.png) [@Lucien](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lucien)\
**Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 10:35pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/this-is-not-a-call-out-just-a-screen-shot-from-pvp/82774/124 "2024-01-11T22:35:13Z")

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when is war and peace vol.2 out 🤣

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