# "Thick Head" trait, give with caution **URL:** \ **Category:** Gameplay Chat (PC/Mobile)\ **Created:** [July 27, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/thick-head-trait-give-with-caution/10394 "2016-07-27T18:05:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Zelarith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/zelarith/32/1642_2.png) [@Zelarith](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Zelarith)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/thick-head-trait-give-with-caution/10394/1 "2016-07-27T18:05:00Z")
So… Pride Guard has the new Thick Head trait as 2nd trait. His first trait cannot be blocked by stun since it triggers at the start of the battle. Basically, as long as you don’t have his third trait, the only use of that trait is… To don’t get double damage from Kopeshi I guess? Bottom line is that Thick Head is a really weak trait possibly the weakest ever. A trait that is only designed to protect traits, when there are only 3 traits seems like complete a complete loss of traitstones if the other traits aren’t worth protecting, even more so on troops having traits that can’t be countered by stun anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Robert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/robert/32/12802_2.png) [@Robert](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Robert)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 6:06pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/thick-head-trait-give-with-caution/10394/2 "2016-07-27T18:06:44Z")
Is this thread about traits? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Koolbiird](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/koolbiird/32/5099_2.png) [@Koolbiird](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Koolbiird)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/thick-head-trait-give-with-caution/10394/3 "2016-07-27T18:09:37Z")
Nice analysis. ---
**Author:** ![Jainus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jainus/32/34949_2.png) [@Jainus](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Jainus)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/thick-head-trait-give-with-caution/10394/4 "2016-07-27T18:45:48Z")
If you put traits on things does that make you a ‘trait-or’? ---
**Author:** ![GemsCollector](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b4bc9f/32.png) [@GemsCollector](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/GemsCollector)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 8:15pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/thick-head-trait-give-with-caution/10394/5 "2016-07-27T20:15:42Z")
Well, I totally agree. Besides, Stun is a very situational effect. In a recent battle I had my Mercy stunned. Checked it: Divine Bond, Blessed and Empowered - all trigger at the start of a battle. So, no big deal 🙂 On a side note, since we’re talking about Stun, I think there’s a visual bug (or maybe not bug, but inconsistency). When a troop is under another status effect there’s a box with its explanation when you select that troop. It’s not the case with Stun. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 11:05pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/thick-head-trait-give-with-caution/10394/6 "2016-07-27T23:05:22Z")
Empowered fires at the start of battle and fills her but if you don’t use it and she gets stunned, she loses all of her charged mana. Had it happen dozens of times today. ---
**Author:** ![killerman3333](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/killerman3333/32/4068_2.png) [@killerman3333](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/killerman3333)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 11:15pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/thick-head-trait-give-with-caution/10394/7 "2016-07-27T23:15:52Z")
Did we need thick head? I mean one troop who could need it is maw but other than him i do not see a benefit. Maybe on a legendary it could be good, but doubtful. ---
**Author:** ![Mithran](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mithran/32/18064_2.png) [@Mithran](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mithran)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 11:17pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/thick-head-trait-give-with-caution/10394/8 "2016-07-27T23:17:54Z")
Both Emperor Khorvash and Manticore both have full mana drains as part of their spells which also stun, are you sure you aren’t experiencing this? ---
**Author:** ![Gueber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@Gueber](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Gueber)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 11:38pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/thick-head-trait-give-with-caution/10394/9 "2016-07-27T23:38:13Z")
They should make thickhead activate some kind of counterattack when hit by stun, like the attack bounces off and the enemy stuns themselves. So instead of just plain immunity its stun reflection, just being immune to stun isn’t enough to be worth a trait slot. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 1:01am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/thick-head-trait-give-with-caution/10394/10 "2016-07-28T01:01:25Z")
Let me make sure. ---
**Author:** ![Personette](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/personette/32/3845_2.png) [@Personette](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Personette)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 2:19am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/thick-head-trait-give-with-caution/10394/11 "2016-07-28T02:19:07Z")
Though one real bummer about stun is that if your Valkyrie is stunned at the end of a battle… no necromancy. ---
**Author:** ![Grundulum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/82dd89/32.png) [@Grundulum](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Grundulum)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 2:19am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/thick-head-trait-give-with-caution/10394/12 "2016-07-28T02:19:43Z")
Sirrian has claimed that this should not happen. If it is occurring, it’s a bug. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 2:43am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/thick-head-trait-give-with-caution/10394/13 "2016-07-28T02:43:45Z")
I just confirmed with Kopeshi vs Mercy. Mana is NOT drained I was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Jainus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jainus/32/34949_2.png) [@Jainus](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Jainus)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 4:25am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/thick-head-trait-give-with-caution/10394/14 "2016-07-28T04:25:59Z")
Agree with OP - that trait allocation really needs reconsidering… Thick Head is worthless if the other traits aren’t worth (or just aren’t structurally possible) to protect! ---
**Author:** ![Shimrra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/shimrra/32/87_2.png) [@Shimrra](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Shimrra)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 4:44am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/thick-head-trait-give-with-caution/10394/15 "2016-07-28T04:44:11Z")
Speaking of traits, am I the only one who’s seen the Cobra and thinks that more could be done there? It costs 16 and has Fast and Stone Link. That could just be costing, y’know, 10 or something, and give the poor thing some _real_ traits. As it stands, its traits only exist to offset its silly mana cost. On topic… yeah. Thick Head needs some thought, as it were. Protecting traits, with a trait that doesn’t do anything else. Other two traits need to at least be worth it. ---
**Author:** ![yonizaf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/yonizaf/32/1435_2.png) [@yonizaf](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/yonizaf)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 6:20am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/thick-head-trait-give-with-caution/10394/16 "2016-07-28T06:20:47Z")
> [@Personette](#): > > if your Valkyrie is stunned at the end of a battle… no necromancy. > [@Grundulum](#): > > Sirrian has claimed that this should not happen. If it is occurring, it’s a bug. Then it’s a bug. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen this happen. ---
**Author:** ![Jainus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jainus/32/34949_2.png) [@Jainus](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Jainus)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2016, 5:08am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/thick-head-trait-give-with-caution/10394/17 "2016-07-29T05:08:28Z")
Agree… That one is looking pretty unusual for a common… High cost and does a LOT… Not especially powerful but a break from tradition, looks more like a rare troop spell… ---
**Author:** ![Treemo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/treemo/32/8848_2.png) [@Treemo](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Treemo)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2016, 2:03pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/thick-head-trait-give-with-caution/10394/18 "2016-07-29T14:03:07Z")
With the steadily increasing number of status effects, almost every trait, that protects only against single status effects feels weak and on the other hand impervious seems kind of broken. So combining several defensive traits into one seems like a good idea and something devs could look in future. ---
**Author:** ![Zelarith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/zelarith/32/1642_2.png) [@Zelarith](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Zelarith)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2016, 2:41pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/thick-head-trait-give-with-caution/10394/19 "2016-07-29T14:41:55Z")
I’ve already talked about that with someone when the tweaks to impervious were announced. We ended up with the idea of having single ailment immunity covering all your troops while an impervious troop would selfishly protect itself only. Sirrian did say it was a nice idea they might look into, but not all the troops should get this upgraded version of these traits. Anyway, I’m pretty aware of that, but Thick Head in particular is very weak, not only because he is very situational like other single immunities, but also because it exists to protect traits while it “wastes” a trait slot itself. Besides, there are some traits that don’t even need protection. As a result, for example, Pride Guard has this trait being useless until he unlocks his 3rd trait… ---
**Author:** ![Razzagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/razzagor/32/50037_2.png) [@Razzagor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Razzagor)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2016, 12:58am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/thick-head-trait-give-with-caution/10394/20 "2016-07-31T00:58:06Z")
A little late for the discussion but maybe the devs could consider some dual immunities for the troops like: - Thick Head: Immune to Stun and Charm. - Iron cast guts: Immune to Poison and Disease. - Warded: Immune to Deathmark and Cursed. - Mana Shield Immune to Mana Burn and Mana Drain. This would add a little more value to some traits and the troops itself. For example: Pride Guardian with Thick Head making him immune to Charm too would help his team since he wouldn’t deal damage to his allies, removing their armor, and making his spell weaker. And by the lore it also makes sense that the guardian wouldn’t hurt the ones he is protecting. 🙂 Thoughts @Sirrian ?