# The New Defend Meta **URL:** \ **Category:** Gameplay Chat (General)\ **Created:** [November 15, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/the-new-defend-meta/15349 "2016-11-15T14:48:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![killerman3333](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/killerman3333/32/4068_2.png) [@killerman3333](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/killerman3333)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2016, 1:52pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/the-new-defend-meta/15349/81 "2016-12-03T13:52:23Z")
> [@Spherix](#): > > Do you actually get more additional resources for a revenge win than you do for a defense win? You get gold, glory and sometimes souls from losing a defence battle. Then on revenge you can challenge the person to a revenge battle which nets you gold, glory, souls and possibly trait stones.[quote=“Spherix, post:80, topic:15349”] Am I missing something major, or is everyone just running on old assumptions? [/quote] > [@Spherix](#): > > Does it seem to affect gold? I guess there’s the defense counter, with its gold/soul/event key payout. i forgot about this. ---
**Author:** ![Mahamoti](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mahamoti/32/19354_2.png) [@Mahamoti](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mahamoti)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2016, 2:17pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/the-new-defend-meta/15349/82 "2016-12-03T14:17:54Z")
> [@RiverSong](#): > > So, yes, now that you mention it, it’s working exactly the way it’s supposed to. > [/quote][quote=“HKdirewolf, post:74, topic:15349, full:true”] > Yeah the more people that realize defend losses don’t matter, the better. How is invading a bunch of one-troop defenses fun? At that point you’re just playing cookie clicker. > [@killerman3333](#): > > debatable You can debate if you like, but playing more matches against easier opponents in the same amount of time equals more traitstones in that time. > [@Spherix](#): > > Ok, I keep seeing this point, but I haven’t seen it actually supported. You could try it. > [@Spherix](#): > > Do you actually get more additional resources for a revenge win than you do for a defense win? I haven’t been keeping careful track, but I think you get 3 glory either way. It’s right there when you click on a revenge match, you get bonus glory for revenges (and rivals, but I’m unclear on what constitutes a rival). > [@Spherix](#): > > I guess there’s an additional 1 glory for a defense loss, so a revenge battle is ahead by one glory over a defense win. Revenge nets no additional souls, so winning a defense is ahead by a marginal amount there. Do revenge battles mean anything more than +3 glory these days? Does it seem to affect gold? I guess there’s the defense counter, with its gold/soul/event key payout. Am I missing something major, or is everyone just running on old assumptions? Per match is the wrong way to look at it. Per _time played_ might help. You get easier matches fielding a one-troop defense. You get more revenges, which offer more resources. You can play more of them in the same amount of time. RoI is higher for everything but PvP points and trophies. ---
**Author:** ![killerman3333](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/killerman3333/32/4068_2.png) [@killerman3333](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/killerman3333)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/the-new-defend-meta/15349/85 "2016-12-03T19:18:18Z")
> [@Mahamoti](#): > > You can debate if you like, but playing more matches against easier opponents in the same amount of time equals more traitstones in that time. With that logic, then yes. ---
**Author:** ![Scala](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/scala/32/12470_2.png) [@Scala](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Scala)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2016, 7:19pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/the-new-defend-meta/15349/86 "2016-12-03T19:19:13Z")
It should be noted that lowering the defence team power also lowers gold offered. The reasoning behind it is this: You start getting offered lower level/power defences, for lower gold and pvp points, but you still get 3 trophies and 5+ glory (and 1 traitstone). The defences you are up against now have less eHP, meaning certain teams, boombots for example, start being viable in pvp. Your matches now are much faster, and it might be worth it in terms of reduced gold/pvp points, with the reduced time invested, I never personally tried it because I want more gold/points per battle, and when I am on mobile, the loading screens take a while. ---
**Author:** ![Mahamoti](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mahamoti/32/19354_2.png) [@Mahamoti](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mahamoti)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2016, 10:28pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/the-new-defend-meta/15349/87 "2016-12-03T22:28:55Z")
If you play the same amount of time, you’ll end up with more gold. Time per match goes down more than gold per match does. One of the only cases where it might not make sense is if you’re chasing the PvP leaderboard. Even then, it still might be a wash. ---
**Author:** ![DonBoba](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/donboba/32/25457_2.png) [@DonBoba](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/DonBoba)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2016, 10:48pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/the-new-defend-meta/15349/88 "2016-12-03T22:48:21Z")
Just to clarify one thing. Defense team DOES NOT AFFECT the opponents you get when you invade. ---
**Author:** ![Mahamoti](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mahamoti/32/19354_2.png) [@Mahamoti](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mahamoti)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2016, 11:04pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/the-new-defend-meta/15349/89 "2016-12-03T23:04:50Z")
Is that for certain? There seems to be a lot of anecdotal evidence that it does. Without changing my invade team, I went from my 3 trophy choice being 8k+ every single match, to maybe 1 in 10. I’ve also seen more lower level choices at 1/2 trophies, where before I never saw anything below lvl500. Maybe it’s the larger number of revenges popping up from lower level players choosing to attack into my weak defense. There’s also more single troop defenses in my invade choices, but admittedly that could just be everyone else choosing to do that now. ---
**Author:** ![DonBoba](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/donboba/32/25457_2.png) [@DonBoba](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/DonBoba)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2016, 11:21pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/the-new-defend-meta/15349/90 "2016-12-03T23:21:52Z")
Yes it is certain. I got the confirmation from Sirrian himself. There was a lot of talk about it, so I had to ask him and got the confirmation that it does not affect. ---
**Author:** ![Drathas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/drathas/32/7344_2.png) [@Drathas](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Drathas)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 1:04am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/the-new-defend-meta/15349/91 "2016-12-04T01:04:44Z")
I disagree. ---
**Author:** ![DonBoba](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/donboba/32/25457_2.png) [@DonBoba](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/DonBoba)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 1:22am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/the-new-defend-meta/15349/92 "2016-12-04T01:22:33Z")
Hahahaha with what do you disagree mate? Are you serious? You disagree with something a developer confirmed? I don’t even know what to say. . ---
**Author:** ![Drathas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/drathas/32/7344_2.png) [@Drathas](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Drathas)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 1:35am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/the-new-defend-meta/15349/93 "2016-12-04T01:35:53Z")
Yep, I disagree with your statement. All of it. I am serious. I have the same experience as @Mahamoti Developers also thought Wulfgarok was fixed when first released which was incorrect, so they are not always the beacon of truth. ---
**Author:** ![HKdirewolf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/hkdirewolf/32/21614_2.png) [@HKdirewolf](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/HKdirewolf)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 2:14am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/the-new-defend-meta/15349/94 "2016-12-04T02:14:13Z")
I’ve seen 2 things effect the opponents I fight. Defense team and pvp losses. I once was on a 630 win streak, as soon as I lost my first match, my 3 opponent choices were super easy and low score. ---
**Author:** ![DonBoba](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/donboba/32/25457_2.png) [@DonBoba](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/DonBoba)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 2:14am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/the-new-defend-meta/15349/95 "2016-12-04T02:14:36Z")
If you say so my friend 🙂 There’s no doubt you know more then the people that developed the game! ---
**Author:** ![Rasper](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/rasper/32/2363_2.png) [@Rasper](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rasper)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 3:29am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/the-new-defend-meta/15349/96 "2016-12-04T03:29:10Z")
I’ve seen this exact thing. Solid defense team, get a plethora of manticore/borer/dragon matches worth 40ish points each. Swapped defense team to a single bombot, and suddenly I’m getting milder matches in the 30s and the 1 trophy matches were against single troop defenses. They may not realize it because it is buried deep, but there IS a correlation. ---
**Author:** ![HKdirewolf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/hkdirewolf/32/21614_2.png) [@HKdirewolf](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/HKdirewolf)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 3:56am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/the-new-defend-meta/15349/97 "2016-12-04T03:56:57Z")
@DonBoba and I were just discussing it. It’s basically based on your attack team win streak (more or less) the higher your streak, the harder your opponents. Based on that theory I think I’ve figured out why changing your defend team to lower might effect it. If your team is successful and on a streak, then you change your defense team, that breaks your streak technically. Might have something to do with that. Just an educated guess. @DonBoba was told that your defend team doesn’t play a part in your opponents at ALL though. It judges your teams based on number of wins. So changing that in any way might restart the process and judgement. I know that your level, and pvp level plays a part as well. If you’ve noticed, the higher the win streak you have, the harder or more annoying the opponents. The minute you lose, it resets and the opponents become easier for a small time til your streak restarts. I don’t know, I’d like to see someone mess around with it and try to nail it down. I’m guessing there’s a lot of smoke and mirrors here though so we can’t game the system. One thing that’s for certain is going to a single troop defense does lower your gold earned, that’s fact. So obviously defense does factor into SOMETHING. ---
**Author:** ![Strat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Strat](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Strat)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 4:11am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/the-new-defend-meta/15349/98 "2016-12-04T04:11:36Z")
All, Just because Sirrian sent sent one super secret private message to DonBoba how he designed the Invade algorithm works does not mean that it is working 100% as intended, unless there has never ever been bug in Gems… ---
**Author:** ![Jainus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jainus/32/34949_2.png) [@Jainus](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Jainus)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 5:37am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/the-new-defend-meta/15349/99 "2016-12-04T05:37:31Z")
Maybe you need to try it for a while before making that assertion with such confidence… ---
**Author:** ![Mithran](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mithran/32/18064_2.png) [@Mithran](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mithran)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 6:34am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/the-new-defend-meta/15349/100 "2016-12-04T06:34:44Z")
What I’m seeing is a reduction in the _average_ power of teams, or at least some influence toward the boundaries. The toughtest match I’ll face is still 8600+, occasionally, but I’ll also occasionally see an extremely weak match on my three trophy. I’ll see extremely weak and maxed out teams regardless of what I used, but the frequency is less. Using the weaker team I’ll occasionally see a mid 4ks or 5ks team on my three trophy battle, though, which I’ve _never_ seen happen with a high score defend team (not to say it can’t happen, just that I’ve never seen it). It could be coincidental, but I think there is enough anecdotal evidence to at least warrant some testing, so I decided to screenshot 10 of my matchmaking screens with a high score and low score defense team set. It is not definitive with this sample size, of course, but there seems to be a trend here: > **With a 4658 defend team, here were my matches:** > > ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/b/bb5b4451845eff6c30fd3984ed14b9ec4e2e84bc.jpg) ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/6/63264d7d78710d643d450d60b38e4763fc34ee54.jpg) ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/e/ea2effe6ed6b6ab78aff163f7cbf56e389e4960a.jpg) ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/d/d56af42c6c64e86f0fb1f79cd9b1623f685ddc5c.jpg) ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/3/32dc560fe46de154bb0cb266c5e0e26e9be23b88.jpg) ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/4/4d6628c373559868e3269463326724b32de01548.jpg) ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/d/de73b56bc93bfb32a9f32ae2d1df0ffcadff964d.jpg) ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/2/20d26a0ff23abffd84b5d45506e19f8b8f4784d5.jpg) ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/a/ac1ef104e2e745dd3ce14e24cc88e6d47b099620.jpg) ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/9/95c6fbf9e0b0a3258177161924165eb661361b64.jpg) > **And with an 8633 score team, I got these:** > > ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/7/7c99f80aa8183eba4774334976c881b00683c5dd.jpg) ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/b/bc3016ee7869fa62306f3e73ca1cc1e5f49160a4.jpg) ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/c/c259f3f42eb702e1c77dae7084651f5661b4b5b5.jpg) ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/9/9b2abdc0c75324b98407b696bd9322eeac5ad0ae.jpg) ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/0/08ad688116327be9d1cf256d796132c8317fcb22.jpg) ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/f/f63bbc1ba7c827e4cfe491835d3c91e434c3a245.jpg) ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/7/739f1005db403247bfaa677d85273e9318caf70f.jpg) ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/a/a1a367a9e19c10cfb006a3ce8951d8d476bc28ab.jpg) ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/f/f1749bf32c9960d12dd4cd6390ce5411784f5376.jpg) ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/0/05fa2bf450f0c0871474c1fcb2530153516c5774.jpg) I lost none of the battles (current win streak 68, 48 before starting) and defend team won only one battle about halfway through the “strong” run and lost one toward the end (last or second to the last battle), and lost none while my “weak” run was in progress (ie, I was not invaded during this time). ---
**Author:** ![Annaerith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/annaerith/32/13840_2.png) [@Annaerith](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Annaerith)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 6:50am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/the-new-defend-meta/15349/101 "2016-12-04T06:50:57Z")
> [@Jainus](#): > > Right, but matches are also supposed to be fun… and @Mahamoti has a point - though it’s long been like this - we’ve had debate here since the game started - some players like to make it hard for others or make it competitive for other guilds, some like to play something different to make it fun for others, and some exploit this very odd mechanic that Revenge battles are extra beneficial so it’s worth losing… thats why my ideal-to-be defense is not a single unit that ‘always’ looses but a full team made to have a chance for either - win quickly or loose quickly, you keep some defense wins, ppl get some chellenge in a short fight - wim:win ---
**Author:** ![Mithran](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mithran/32/18064_2.png) [@Mithran](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mithran)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 7:07am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/the-new-defend-meta/15349/102 "2016-12-04T07:07:36Z")
I used a full team of untraited level 5 season imps. ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/8/8e4f46c289363e09f4a8ecd39e069a1e120cd296.jpg) I’d imagine someone actually using a 4500ish invade team would be in for an actual fight, considering their stats: ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/0/04210cb56f5018a33df50e1c186a3563c88f7163.jpg) [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/the-new-defend-meta/15349.md?page=4) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/the-new-defend-meta/15349.md?page=6)