# Tell me the ai it's not rigged! **URL:** \ **Category:** Gameplay Chat (PC/Mobile)\ **Created:** [September 4, 2018, 6:16pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/tell-me-the-ai-its-not-rigged/45219 "2018-09-04T18:16:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ashasekayi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/ashasekayi/32/61090_2.png) [@Ashasekayi](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Ashasekayi)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 11:15pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/tell-me-the-ai-its-not-rigged/45219/41 "2018-09-04T23:15:35Z")
> [@Flint](#): > > I assume when the developers say that the RNG doesn’t favor the player they’re factoring in many things - different game modes, larger sample sizes, and so on. Thus the player who experiences a rigged AI and complains can be correct, while the developers who claim the opposite can also be correct because they are quantifying the effect differently. The developers of the game have been quite clear on this point. They haven’t hid behind weaselly words or double talk when it comes to the topic of a cheating/rigged AI. They have stated in no uncertain terms that the AI does not turn on secret cheat code to ensure victory. So, you either believe they are lying when they state that they have run hundreds of tests to ensure the AI isn’t developing magical (rigged) luck, or you don’t. * * * Here is the link where Sirrian shows the results of some of their internal tests: > [@Dear devs, please fix your cheating AI on console](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dear-devs-please-fix-your-cheating-ai-on-console/20562/47): > > So we actually ran some tests on the AI last week, because we’re hearing a few complaints here… we simulated input from the human player, and ran 816 matches overnight on one of our console test kits. The simulation uses the AI to determine the human player’s move, but that only provides input for which Gems to switch & spells to cast… in ALL other respects the actual Gem Board can’t tell whether that input comes from a Human Player or an AI player. For the record: a) This was done with all c… * * * In this link, Sirrian discusses how these same accusations came up with Puzzle Quest. There were people that were so convinced the AI was rigged. So, the devs released the code for people to see and no cheating was found. > [@Dear devs, please fix your cheating AI on console](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dear-devs-please-fix-your-cheating-ai-on-console/20562/2): > > Hi GREEK, Nothing cheating here, sorry - in fact we cheat in your favor for a bunch of levels early in the game. I believe the console AI is still missing some moves randomly too… so it’s a little easier in general. Regarding the recall bias… I’m sorry to say that’s exactly what is happening. You can read about some of our early usability testing with the Puzzle Quest series here: [https://gemsofwar.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/210140183-Does-the-AI-Cheat-](https://gemsofwar.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/210140183-Does-the-AI-Cheat-) Also, it was confirmed by numerous… * * * This cheating AI debate has gone on since before I started playing this game. Of course, it never goes anywhere since if someone wants to be convinced the AI is rigged there is nothing the devs can say to convince them otherwise. > **For those new to this, here are some more quotes from Sirrian on the topic:** > > [How often are YOU running into the "super lucky" opponents? - #87 by Sirrian](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/how-often-are-you-running-into-the-super-lucky-opponents/20082/87) > > [Guild War - PvP - Card Imbalances - Cheating AI. Maybe the time to quit - #181](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-war-pvp-card-imbalances-cheating-ai-maybe-the-time-to-quit/23138/181) > > [AI getting too many drops on console, still? - #21 by Saltypatra](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/ai-getting-too-many-drops-on-console-still/25211/21) ---
**Author:** ![Cyrup](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/cyrup/32/50181_2.png) [@Cyrup](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Cyrup)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 11:37pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/tell-me-the-ai-its-not-rigged/45219/42 "2018-09-04T23:37:33Z")
The ai it’s not rigged. ---
**Author:** ![Shadow1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/shadow1/32/45170_2.png) [@Shadow1](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Shadow1)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 11:39pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/tell-me-the-ai-its-not-rigged/45219/43 "2018-09-04T23:39:44Z")
It’s old dude, there’s already a smart … sarcastic fellow who reply that. ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 11:46pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/tell-me-the-ai-its-not-rigged/45219/44 "2018-09-04T23:46:41Z")
Well said, Asha. Humans are terrible predictors of randomness and have a hard time recognizing that streaks are in fact part of random processes. In hindsight, it’s easy to identify a streak, as they stand out. Should the devs be cheating _more_ in the player’s favor? Perhaps, though then they stand to risk the ire of those who already feel the player has too many advantages. As it is, they cheat _slightly_ in the player’s favor by limiting the AI’s ability to loop _in very specific cases,_ and otherwise let RNG be RNG. The debate will not end here — it never does — but neither do I anticipate any change to come, either. ---
**Author:** ![Shadow1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/shadow1/32/45170_2.png) [@Shadow1](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Shadow1)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 12:00am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/tell-me-the-ai-its-not-rigged/45219/45 "2018-09-05T00:00:16Z")
Why would they change something? They got 80€ from me for a spaghetti code who not only puts New players like me against things 6 times more health, attack and armor but also magically gets all the alignments in the game and activates his skill that cost like 32 mana twice in 4 turns…that’s normal. Of course they won’t change. And for those who are like noo the ai it’s not cheating some random guy and the developer said so…really dude? ---
**Author:** ![Ashasekayi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/ashasekayi/32/61090_2.png) [@Ashasekayi](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Ashasekayi)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 12:14am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/tell-me-the-ai-its-not-rigged/45219/46 "2018-09-05T00:14:32Z")
> [@Lyya](#): > > Should the devs be cheating _more_ in the player’s favor? Perhaps, though then they stand to risk the ire of those who already feel the player has too many advantages. That’s exactly what would happen. I already know people that complain about the game being too easy. ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 12:17am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/tell-me-the-ai-its-not-rigged/45219/47 "2018-09-05T00:17:53Z")
> [@Shadow1](#): > > And for those who are like noo the ai it’s not cheating some random guy and the developer said so…really dude? If you don’t trust the word of the developer, you won’t trust the data posted by the developer. Thus the burden of proof is upon yourself. What would allay your fears short of reaffirmation of your suspicions? In other words: Assume you’re wrong. What would convince you of this? ---
**Author:** ![Shadow1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/shadow1/32/45170_2.png) [@Shadow1](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Shadow1)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 12:18am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/tell-me-the-ai-its-not-rigged/45219/48 "2018-09-05T00:18:45Z")
Oh yes, please the veteran who have everything in the game and won’t ever spend money not the New players who actually buy stuff, like me ---
**Author:** ![Shadow1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/shadow1/32/45170_2.png) [@Shadow1](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Shadow1)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 12:19am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/tell-me-the-ai-its-not-rigged/45219/49 "2018-09-05T00:19:48Z")
Would convince me someone from outside, unknown to them to read their code ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 12:21am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/tell-me-the-ai-its-not-rigged/45219/50 "2018-09-05T00:21:24Z")
I see. Well, since the community cannot provide this and the developers obviously won’t, you’re safe in your assumptions that things must be stacked against you. ---
**Author:** ![Shadow1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/shadow1/32/45170_2.png) [@Shadow1](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Shadow1)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 12:24am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/tell-me-the-ai-its-not-rigged/45219/51 "2018-09-05T00:24:50Z")
Exactly. And since I don’t trust them a way to get my money back and forget this app exists would be the best but I guess that’s just lost money… ---
**Author:** ![en9nhcet](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/en9nhcet/32/1673_2.png) [@en9nhcet](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/en9nhcet)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 1:05am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/tell-me-the-ai-its-not-rigged/45219/52 "2018-09-05T01:05:12Z")
to me the “players win 90% it cant be rigged” means nothing since yknow…players get the first turn plus loop teams exist where you can never let the ai get a turn.bet if you let the ai get the first turn the wr drops to less than 50% not even talking about how the ai gets better drops or not xD ---
**Author:** ![Flint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d07c76/32.png) [@Flint](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Flint)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 2:57am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/tell-me-the-ai-its-not-rigged/45219/53 "2018-09-05T02:57:54Z")
You’re totally missing my point. There are ways to increase the difficulty without affecting the behavior of the AI (decision making) or even the gem drop behavior. Spell-based gem creation can be adjusted. Percentage chances (devour, explode) can be adjusted or biased a certain way. You can still accurately claim that a given troop has a 35% chance to devour an enemy troop if it’s 50% half the time and 20% the other half. I would turn this around on anybody who makes the blanket statement that there is no bias - at any point - to the AI, RNG, percentage chances, ANYTHING of the sort. If there is no adjustment to troop statistics, then where does the additional difficulty come from? Were the developers lying when they said there were difficulty factors at play? ---
**Author:** ![Amadan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/amadan/32/7653_2.png) [@Amadan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Amadan)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 3:11am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/tell-me-the-ai-its-not-rigged/45219/54 "2018-09-05T03:11:34Z")
The devs have said that everything in the game works exactly at the percentages given, that nothing is secretly manipulated, and the only “cheating” is in the players’ favor to sometimes _stop_ the AI from getting “too lucky”. No matter where you try to move the goalposts to, that’ll still be the same answer. So: either you believe the devs are lying to your face (in which case this discussion is a waste of time because you’ll never believe anything they say) or you accept that nothing is rigged against you (in which case this discussion is over). ---
**Author:** ![Ashasekayi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/ashasekayi/32/61090_2.png) [@Ashasekayi](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Ashasekayi)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 3:28am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/tell-me-the-ai-its-not-rigged/45219/55 "2018-09-05T03:28:13Z")
> [@Flint](#): > > You’re totally missing my point. I didn’t miss your point. I just don’t agree with your point. The OP made an unsubstantiated claim that the AI is rigged to be substantially luckier than the player. Beyond that, it is being claimed that AI decides before the match that the human player will lose and changes its luck dynamically to make sure the player loses. Yes, a claim of that astounding level needs actual data not just anecdotal evidence. I provided the link to Sirrian discussing internal tests that they performed to refute similar claims in the past. Now, the statistical evidence he provided in that thread shows that the AI isn’t substantially luckier that the human player. So, as I stated before, either a person believes that the devs straight out lied and made up that data, or they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Whovian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/whovian/32/41834_2.png) [@Whovian](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Whovian)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 5:39am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/tell-me-the-ai-its-not-rigged/45219/56 "2018-09-05T05:39:35Z")
Now I’m no longer a dev. I stopped writing code about 20 years ago so I know things change. But it’s an A.I. Would it not be possible with a few lines of code for the A.I. to recognize the level of a team and therefore “set the board” in favor of new players under a certain, like, instead of Normal, Hard, @$$kicker you could make it Easy, Normal, Hard, etc. And if you were a higher level player, you wouldn’t be allowed to use 'EASY" to ramp their troops up. Something along that line. Cuz as I can tell you as I’m sitting there waiting for my turn to attack and the extra turn gems and skull drops taking out my troops one at a time sometimes makes me want to say the hell with the game and call it money well spent at the time and leave it at that. But I like the game but I’d also like a fairer chance at winning as well to help me get the troops I need leveled, ascended and traited in order to have some decent teams. Just an idea. That and $5 MIGHT buy you a coffee ---
**Author:** ![Saltypatra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/saltypatra/32/59750_2.png) [@Saltypatra](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Saltypatra)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 5:52am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/tell-me-the-ai-its-not-rigged/45219/57 "2018-09-05T05:52:48Z")
> [@Amadan](#): > > The devs have said that everything in the game works exactly at the percentages given, that nothing is secretly manipulated, and the only “cheating” is in the players’ favor to sometimes _stop_ the AI from getting “too lucky”. Exactly this. The debate regarding whether or not the AI cheats pops up time and again, and as such, we have investigated it thoroughly. Our AI will never cheat against the player, it is incapable of it. Unless it becomes sentient and decides to re-enact the Matrix and destroy humankind, and if that were the case I highly doubt it would waste it’s time trolling players every now and then in Gems of War. @Ashasekayi made a thoughtful, smart, backed up post where you can read about the internal tests we conducted. In fact, over time our AI has gotten _easier_ for the player to beat. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and that is fine. 🙂 We have provided as much information as possible regarding our AI and RNG, and even gone as far as to run the tests mentioned earlier, in good faith. (Source code for games is very rarely released, as it can lead to copyright infringements, people skinning games, and a whole other host of nasty things.) ---
**Author:** ![Slypenslyde](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/slypenslyde/32/30373_2.png) [@Slypenslyde](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Slypenslyde)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 6:20am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/tell-me-the-ai-its-not-rigged/45219/58 "2018-09-05T06:20:09Z")
This is a triad: 1. Tell me the ai it’s not rigged! 2. Call me a cab! 3. Don’t call me ‘Shirley’! ---
**Author:** ![Eika](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/eika/32/103088_2.png) [@Eika](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Eika)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 6:42am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/tell-me-the-ai-its-not-rigged/45219/60 "2018-09-05T06:42:43Z")
> [@Eika](#): > > Psst, no ablest language please. > [@Shadow1](#): > > Finally someone with some brain and no sarcastic reply @Saltypatra So telling everyone that disagree with you that they have no brain and that they are being sarcastic, is totally fine? I do not see that you corrected his post at all. If you edited my post, you surely should edit his post too. ---
**Author:** ![Saltypatra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/saltypatra/32/59750_2.png) [@Saltypatra](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Saltypatra)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 6:52am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/tell-me-the-ai-its-not-rigged/45219/61 "2018-09-05T06:52:06Z")
@Eika you used a word which is considered a slur, and comes under hate speech, which is why it was changed. [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/tell-me-the-ai-its-not-rigged/45219.md?page=2) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/tell-me-the-ai-its-not-rigged/45219.md?page=4)