# Talent Tree Woes
**URL:** https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/talent-tree-woes/66023
**Category:** Feature Requests and Game feedback
**Created:** [September 18, 2020, 5:56pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/talent-tree-woes/66023 "2020-09-18T17:56:01Z")
**Posts on this page:** 5
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@igniteice](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/igniteice)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2020, 5:56pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/talent-tree-woes/66023/1 "2020-09-18T17:56:01Z")
If there’s one thing I really despise about the Talent Trees it’s that so many talents refer to specific troop types. How many classes have the Forest talent tree? Six of them. And how many of those are of the Elf troop type? Two of them. Let’s take a look at the Level 70 Talent Row for those six classes.
**Archer** - Elf
Forest 70 Elven Sentries All Elves gain 1 Magic and Attack at the start of a battle.
Wind 70 Child of Sky 25% chance to summon a Heronath when an ally casts a spell.
Cunning 70 Dodge 30% chance to dodge Skull damage.
**Barbarian** - Orc
War 70 Bloodthirsty Become enraged on 4 or 5 Gem matches.
Forest 70 Elven Sentries All Elves gain 1 Magic and Attack at the start of a battle.
Storms 70 Lightning Strike Explode 1 Yellow Gem on 4 or 5 Gem matches.
**Orbweaver** - Elf
Forest 70 Elven Sentries All Elves gain 1 Magic and Attack at the start of a battle.
Shadow 70 Dark Venom Poison a random Enemy when matching purple Gems.
Morale 70 Inspiration All Allies start battle with 15% Mana.
**Shaman** - Tauros
Forest 70 Elven Sentries All Elves gain 1 Magic and Attack at the start of a battle.
War 70 Bloodthirsty Become enraged on 4 or 5 Gem matches.
Light 70 Lightbringer Gain bonus Yellow Mana from Yellow Gem matches.
**Sunspear** - Raksha
Forest 70 Elven Sentries All Elves gain 1 Magic and Attack at the start of a battle.
Water 70 Water Mastery Gain bonus Blue Mana from Blue Gem matches.
Fire 70 Firebringer Gain bonus Red Mana from Red Gem matches.
**Warden** - Beast
Forest 70 Elven Sentries All Elves gain 1 Magic and Attack at the start of a battle.
Guardian 70 Banishment Dispel all enemies on 4 or 5 Gem matches.
Cunning 70 Dodge 30% chance to dodge Skull damage.
Now let’s go through which talents make sense for each class. For Archer, the level 70 talent gives 1 Magic and 1 Attack to possibly the entire team. You could also take the Dodge, probably a better option, if you’re going to be frontlining to take advantage of Bullseye (15% chance for Skull damage to be lethal). The Heronath summon is a Stryx/Mystic that creates a leafstorm and gives all allies Armor, boosted by Ally Stryx, which you probably only have one of at that point.
For Barbarian, it doesn’t make any sense to ever take Elven Sentries. I can’t imagine a team where you would choose the Orc Hero and take an Elf talent. The other two talents are pretty good alternatives.
Orbweaver it makes the most sense to take Elven Sentries (although Orbweaver should really be the Beast class and Warden should be Wargare). The other two talents are pretty trash. There’s no reason to poison anyone as Orbweaver, you’d want that maybe if you were playing Assassin (but even then I would take Dodge instead). The Morale is almost never taken because of King Avelorn (all elves start at 50% mana).
For Shaman, the best talent is undeniably Bloodthirsty, because the other two are worthless. You’re not going to be running Elves with Tauros, and there are a whopping 3 Tauros in the game that use Yellow mana, including Mongo who no one in their right mind would use. So that rules out Lightbringer.
For Sunspear, it’s definitely a toss-up between Firebringer and Firebringer, because no one is going to be taking the other two. Sunspear is used for basically one reason: Phoenicia, who relies on Sunspear’s Heatwave (Firestorm at every turn), and Phoenicia uses Red, but not Blue, mana. That doesn’t mean Water Mastery is bad, it just means Firebringer is good (and we’ll pretend Elven Sentries doesn’t exist).
And then there is Warden. Of all the classes that aren’t Elves who might have Elves on their team, this is probably the highest contender, because there are Elf/Beast troops. But Banishment is simply too good to take 1 Magic/Attack over. Banishment is basically a level 100 talent accessible at level 70. It’s extremely powerful. Entire enemy team has Barrier and is Submerged? Not anymore.
This is all a testament to the fact that most talents do not reflect the Hero troop type or teams they are a part of whatsoever – and this is just one talent. There are 119 talents across 17 Talent Trees. How many of those do you suppose refer to a specific troop type? 22 of them do:
| # Matching Classes | # Classes | Talent Tree | Level | Talent Name | Description |
| --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| 1 | 6 | Arcane | 100 | Mystic Channel | All Mystics gain 2 Magic and Life when an enemy dies. |
| 1 | 6 | Cunning | 100 | Thieves’ Guild | All Rogues gain 1 Magic on 4 or 5 of a kind. |
| 2 | 6 | Death | 100 | Unholy Blessing | All Undead gain 2 Armor and Magic when an ally dies. |
| 1 | 7 | Guardian | 100 | Armor Plating | All Mech Allies gain 2 Armor per turn. |
| 2 | 6 | Life | 100 | Eternal Summer | All Fey Allies gain 2 Life every turn. |
| 1 | 6 | Light | 100 | Divinity | All Divine Allies gain 2 Life every turn. |
| 1 | 7 | Morale | 100 | Urska Major | All Urska Allies gain 1 Attack every turn. |
| 1 | 6 | War | 100 | Bull General | All Tauros Allies gain 1 Attack every turn. |
| 1 | 5 | Water | 100 | Aquatic Glory | All Merfolk allies gain 2 Magic when an enemy dies. |
| 1 | 7 | Wind | 100 | Stryx Commander | All Stryx allies gain 1 Attack every turn. |
| 3 | 6 | Forest | 70 | Elven Sentries | All Elves gain 1 Magic and Attack at the start of a battle. |
| 1 | 6 | Cunning | 40 | Goblin Friend | All Goblins gain 2 Attack. |
| 2 | 7 | Storms | 40 | Titanic Surge | All Giant Allies gain 1 Life and Magic. |
| 2 | 5 | Stone | 20 | Dwarven Armor | Gain 4 Armor for each Dwarven ally. |
| 1 | 7 | Wind | 20 | Celestial Currents | All Centaur allies gain 1 Magic. |
| 1 | 7 | Morale | 10 | Royal Armoy | All ally Knights gain 2 Armor. |
| 1 | 5 | Shadow | 5 | Shadow Scales | All Naga Allies gain 1 Armor every turn. |
| 3 | 5 | Chaos | 1 | Daemonic Rage | All Daemons gain 1 Attack. |
| 1 | 6 | Fire | 1 | Feline Fury | All Raksha gain 1 Attack and Life. |
What is going on with these talents? Look at the level 100 talents where 6-7 classes have these talent trees, but only 1-2 of those classes have the corresponding troop type. Sentinel is the only Urska troop type, but who would ever take Urska Major over Fortitude? And any other class with Urska Major (Bard, Dragonguard, Knight, Orbweaver, Warlord, and Warpriest) would never take it. But then you run into utter chaos with situations like Warpriest’s Level 100 talent choices:
| Talent Tree | Level | Talent Name | Description |
| --- | --- | --- | --- |
| Light | 100 | Divinity | All Divine Allies gain 2 Life every turn. |
| Morale | 100 | Urska Major | All Urska Allies gain 1 Attack every turn. |
| War | 100 | Bull General | All Tauros Allies gain 1 Attack every turn. |
Lol… what?!
This is just sloppy design. Level 100 should be exciting no matter what class you’re playing. There should never be a situation where players feel like their choice at 100 is meaningless (and for some classes, it really is, as seen above). Here’s the really bizarre thing though… Divine Ishbaala is FROM Leonis Empire and is a Divine/Human. She has the trait Radiant Aura which starts all divines at 40% mana (because most Divines are Mythics with huge mana pools). Oddly enough, there are only two other Divines from Leonis Empire: Voice of Orpheus and The Devoted, both of which are also Humans.
The one class though that actually would want to take Divinity at 100 would be Priest, which is of the Divine troop type. There are 17 Divine troops from Whitehelm. That makes sense that if you were running a Whitehelm team with Divines, you’d give them and yourself 2 Life every turn (the other talents for Priest at 100 are god awful).
Of course, the head scratcher is that Holy St. Astra is a Divine/Human from Whitehelm, but she starts Humans at 50% mana. So if you’re playing as Warpriest and want to start at 50% mana, you need Holy St. Astra from Whitehelm. If you’re playing as a Priest and want 40% starting mana, you need Divine Ishbaala from Leonis Empire. Both are Divine/Humans, but your Hero is only either a Divine or a Human and only benefits from the Level 100 talent if you’re a Priest.
Makes total sense. Great design. /s
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### Author:  [@ESR77](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/ESR77)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2020, 11:35pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/talent-tree-woes/66023/2 "2020-09-18T23:35:26Z")
I agree with everything you said, and you said a lot, but hasn’t this been discussed to death already? Everyone agrees the talent trees are imbalanced and there are a bunch of terrible options at the highest levels for some classes. Yes, the whole thing desperately needs a rework but unfortunately that seems extremely unlikely to happen any time soon… just like weapon affixes.
---
### Author:  [@Shimrra](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Shimrra)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2020, 12:21am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/talent-tree-woes/66023/3 "2020-09-19T00:21:14Z")
Yeah, I’ve got this covered in around as much depth … the devs do not care. I’m … resigned.
---
### Author:  [@igniteice](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/igniteice)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2020, 7:54pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/talent-tree-woes/66023/4 "2020-09-30T19:54:15Z")
These are my suggestions:
| Talent Tree | Level | Talent Name | Description | Suggestion |
| --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| Arcane | 100 | Mystic Channel | All Mystics gain 2 Magic and Life when an enemy dies. | Gain 5 Mana when I take damage from Spells. |
| Arcane | 70 | Arcane Surge | Gain bonus Purple Mana from Purple Gem matches. | – |
| Arcane | 40 | Antiquity | Gain 4 Magic when using Artifacts. | – |
| Arcane | 20 | Mana Source | Start battles with 50% Mana. | – |
| Arcane | 10 | Anti-Magic Sphere | Reduce damage from Spells by 20%. | – |
| Arcane | 5 | Mage Lord | Gain 2 Magic if in last position. | – |
| Arcane | 1 | Magical Shield | All Purple allies gain 2 Armor. | – |
| Chaos | 100 | Chaos Wave | All enemies lose 1 point on a random skill when I match Skulls. | Chaosblade: Deal triple Skull damage to diseased enemies. |
| Chaos | 70 | Delirium | Gain 2 Magic and Attack when I take damage to Life. | – |
| Chaos | 40 | Sudden Doom | Create a Doomstorm at the start of battle. | – |
| Chaos | 20 | Spawn of Hell | 50% chance to summon a Hellspawn when an enemy dies. | – |
| Chaos | 10 | Plaguebearer | Disease a random enemy on 4 or 5 Gem matches. | – |
| Chaos | 5 | Dark Hunger | Steal 1 Life from the first enemy when matching Purple Gems. | – |
| Chaos | 1 | Daemonic Rage | All Daemons gain 1 Attack. | All Purple allies gain 1 Attack. |
| Cunning | 100 | Thieves’ Guild | All Rogues gain 1 Magic on 4 or 5 of a kind. | Poisonblade: Deal triple Skull damage to poisoned enemies. |
| Cunning | 70 | Dodge | 30% chance to dodge Skull damage. | – |
| Cunning | 40 | Goblin Friend | All Goblins gain 2 Attack. | Greedy Touch: All Allies gain 1 Attack when I gain Gold. |
| Cunning | 20 | Backup | 35% chance to summon a Bandit when an ally dies. | – |
| Cunning | 10 | Light Fingers | Gain 5 Gold every turn. | – |
| Cunning | 5 | Knife Throwing | Gain 2 Magic if using a Dagger. | – |
| Cunning | 1 | Hunt | Hunter’s Mark a random enemy on 4 or 5 of a kind. | – |
| Death | 100 | Unholy Blessing | All Undead gain 2 Armor and Magic when an ally dies. | Deathblade: Deal triple Skull damage to death marked enemies. |
| Death | 70 | Swift Curse | Death Mark a random enemy at the start of battle. | – |
| Death | 40 | Life Siphon | Steal 2 Life from the first enemy on 4 or 5 Gem matches. | – |
| Death | 20 | Icy Veil | Create an icestorm at the start of a battle. | – |
| Death | 10 | Soul Caller | Gain 1 Soul every turn. | 20% chance to summon a Warlock when an ally dies. |
| Death | 5 | Chill of Death | When an enemy dies, Freeze another random enemy. | – |
| Death | 1 | Reaper | Gain 2 Magic if using a Scythe. | – |
| Fire | 100 | Fireblade | Deal triple Skull damage to burning enemies. | – |
| Fire | 70 | Firebringer | Gain bonus Red Mana from Red Gem matches. | – |
| Fire | 40 | Gift of Fire | All Red Allies gain 1 Magic. | – |
| Fire | 20 | Firestarter | Create a firestorm at the start of a battle. | – |
| Fire | 10 | Up in Flames | Burn a random enemy when an ally dies. | Create a firestorm when an ally dies. |
| Fire | 5 | Fireproof | Immunity to Burning and Faerie Fire. | – |
| Fire | 1 | Feline Fury | All Raksha gain 1 Attack and Life. | Fury of Fire: Burn a randomy enemy at the start of a battle. |
| Forest | 100 | Harvest Moon | All Wargare Allies gain 2 Life every turn. | Rootblade: Deal triple Skull damage to entangled enemies. |
| Forest | 70 | Elven Sentries | All Elves gain 1 Magic and Attack at the start of a battle. | 50% chance to summon an Arachnaean Watcher when an enemy dies. |
| Forest | 40 | Wall of Vines | All Green allies gain 5 Armor. | – |
| Forest | 20 | Nature’s Aura | Create a leafstorm at the start of a battle. | – |
| Forest | 10 | Root Trap | Entangle the first enemy at the start of battle. | – |
| Forest | 5 | Perfect Aim | Gain 2 Magic if using a Bow. | – |
| Forest | 1 | Haunted Weave | Web a random enemy when I summon a troop. | – |
| Guardian | 100 | Armor Plating | All Mech Allies gain 2 Armor per turn. | Reflect 40% of Skull damage. |
| Guardian | 70 | Banishment | Dispel all enemies on 4 or 5 Gem matches. | – |
| Guardian | 40 | Savior | When an ally dies, Barrier another random ally. | – |
| Guardian | 20 | Razor Armor | Add 20% of Armor to Skull Damage. | – |
| Guardian | 10 | Vanguard | Gain Barrier at the start of battle. | – |
| Guardian | 5 | Protector | Gain 3 Magic if using a Shield. | – |
| Guardian | 1 | Stone Wall | All Brown allies gain 2 Armor. | – |
| Knowledge | 100 | Master Builder | All constructs gain 10 Life. | 20% chance to summon a random Construct when an Ally casts a spell. |
| Knowledge | 70 | Tree of Knowledge | Gain Enchant when matching Green Gems. | – |
| Knowledge | 40 | Mentor | All allies gain 1 Magic. | – |
| Knowledge | 20 | Tactician | Gain 3 Magic at the start of a battle. | – |
| Knowledge | 10 | Golem Protector | 20% chance to summon an Ancient Golem when I take damage to Life. | – |
| Knowledge | 5 | Well-Read | Gain 3 Magic if using a Tome. | – |
| Knowledge | 1 | Serendipity | Give a random ally a random status effect. | – |
| Life | 100 | Eternal Summer | All Fey Allies gain 2 Life every turn. | Faerieblade: Deal triple Skull damage to faerie fired enemies. |
| Life | 70 | Nature’s Will | Gain bonus Green Mana from Green Gem matches. | – |
| Life | 40 | Healing Herb | Gain 4 Life when matching Green Gems. | – |
| Life | 20 | Fey Vengeance | Faerie Fire a random enemy when an Ally dies. | – |
| Life | 10 | Fast Healing | Recover 2 Life every turn. | – |
| Life | 5 | Purification | Cleanse myself on 4 or 5 Gem matches. | – |
| Life | 1 | Resilience | Gain 8 Life. | – |
| Light | 100 | Divinity | All Divine Allies gain 2 Life every turn. | Divineblade: Deal triple Skull damage to cursed enemies. |
| Light | 70 | Lightbringer | Gain bonus Yellow Mana from Yellow Gem matches. | – |
| Light | 40 | Armor of Light | All troops gain 4 Armor. | All allies recover 4 armor on 4 or 5 Gem matches. |
| Light | 20 | Dawn’s Aura | Create a lightstorm at the start of a battle. | – |
| Light | 10 | Brilliant Aura | All allies gain 2 life on 4 or 5 Gem matches. | – |
| Light | 5 | Leading Light | Gain 10 Armor if in first position. | – |
| Light | 1 | Shining Staff | Gain 2 Magic if using a Staff. | – |
| Morale | 100 | Urska Major | All Urska Allies gain 1 Attack every turn. | Morale Boost: Cleanse all Allies when an Ally dies. |
| Morale | 70 | Inspiration | All Allies start battle with 15% Mana. | – |
| Morale | 40 | Commander | Gain 2 to all Skills if in first position. | – |
| Morale | 20 | Quick Study | Gain 10% bonus XP from battle. | – |
| Morale | 10 | Royal Armoy | All ally Knights gain 2 Armor. | Swordsmanship: Gain 2 Magic if using a Sword. |
| Morale | 5 | Resplendence | Gain 2 Magic if using Jewellery. | – |
| Morale | 1 | Exemplar | Gain 5 Attack in PvP. | – |
| Shadow | 100 | Rising Shadows | 7% chance to assassinate the last enemy when another enemy dies. | – |
| Shadow | 70 | Dark Venom | Poison a random Enemy when matching purple Gems. | – |
| Shadow | 40 | Stealthy | Cannot be targeted by spells (unless there are no other targets). | – |
| Shadow | 20 | Dusk’s Aura | Create a darkstorm at the start of a battle. | – |
| Shadow | 10 | Shadows’ Call | 20% chance to summon a Sister of Shadows when an enemy dies. | – |
| Shadow | 5 | Shadow Scales | All Naga Allies gain 1 Armor every turn. | Immunity to Poison and Disease. |
| Shadow | 1 | Gloom | All Purple allies gain 2 Life. | – |
| Stone | 100 | Fortitude | Immune to Stun, Poison, Disease, Death Mark and Devour. | – |
| Stone | 70 | Stone Mastery | Gain bonus Brown Mana from Brown Gem matches. | – |
| Stone | 40 | Rock Solid | Gain a Barrier when matching Brown Gems. | – |
| Stone | 20 | Dwarven Armor | Gain 4 Armor for each Dwarven ally. | Recover 4 Armor every turn. |
| Stone | 10 | Stone Circle | All Brown Allies gain 3 Armor. | – |
| Stone | 5 | Hammer Mastery | Gain 2 Magic if using a Hammer. | – |
| Stone | 1 | Impact | Inflict Stun when enemies deal Skull damage to me. | – |
| Storms | 100 | Lord of Storms | Elementals gain 1 Magic when an ally casts a spell. | All allies gain 1 Magic when a storm is summoned. |
| Storms | 70 | Lightning Strike | Explode 1 Yellow Gem on 4 or 5 Gem matches. | – |
| Storms | 40 | Titanic Surge | All Giant Allies gain 1 Life and Magic. | Explode a random Gem at the start of battle. |
| Storms | 20 | Storm Aura | Create a duststorm at the start of a battle. | – |
| Storms | 10 | Thunder Fist | All Yellow Allies gain 1 Magic. | – |
| Storms | 5 | Mace of Power | Gain 2 Magic if using a Mace. | – |
| Storms | 1 | Chaos Storm | Summon a random storm on 4 or 5 Gem matches. | – |
| War | 100 | Bull General | All Tauros Allies gain 1 Attack every turn. | Warblade: Deal triple Skull damage to stunned enemies. |
| War | 70 | Bloodthirsty | Become enraged on 4 or 5 Gem matches. | – |
| War | 40 | Vengeance | Gain 3 Attack when an enemy dies. | – |
| War | 20 | Blood and Glory | Gain 1 Glory in PvP Battles. | – |
| War | 10 | Axes of Doom | Gain 3 Magic is using an Axe. | – |
| War | 5 | Counterattack | Gain 2 attack when I take damage. | – |
| War | 1 | Ferocity | Gain 4 Attack. | – |
| Water | 100 | Aquatic Glory | All Merfolk allies gain 2 Magic when an enemy dies. | Frostblade: Deal triple Skull damage to frozen enemies. |
| Water | 70 | Water Mastery | Gain bonus Blue Mana from Blue Gem matches. | – |
| Water | 40 | Deluge | Submerge a random ally on 4 or 5 Gem matches. | – |
| Water | 20 | Watery Binding | All Blue Allies gain 4 Life. | – |
| Water | 10 | Ocean’s Trident | Gain 3 Magic if using a Polearm. | – |
| Water | 5 | Insulated | Immunity to Frozen. | – |
| Water | 1 | Snap Freeze | Freeze a random enemy at the start of battle. | – |
| Wind | 100 | Stryx Commander | All Stryx allies gain 1 Attack every turn. | Windblade: Deal triple Skull damage to silenced enemies. |
| Wind | 70 | Child of Sky | 25% chance to summon a Heronath when an ally casts a spell. | – |
| Wind | 40 | Gale Force | All Yellow allies gain 2 Attack. | – |
| Wind | 20 | Celestial Currents | All Centaur allies gain 1 Magic. | 20% chance to summon an Astral Spirit when an ally dies. |
| Wind | 10 | Wind Speed | All Yellow Allies start battle with 10% Mana. | – |
| Wind | 5 | Precision | Gain 2 Magic if using a Missile. | – |
| Wind | 1 | Wind Shield | Gain 8 Armor. | – |
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### Author:  [@banatibor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/banatibor)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2020, 8:03pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/talent-tree-woes/66023/5 "2020-10-05T20:03:15Z")
I agree most talent changes would be an upgrade, but no more skull spam strengthening talent please. I would like to see a positive status effect which gives you increased magic damage just like enrage gives you 1.5x dmg and ignore enemy traits.
Also I do not like to loose troops. Your suggestion for the morale tree is just as bad as the current one, and only can be activated 3 times during a battle. A lvl 100 talent should be an all time active passive talent or something which can be activated many times, 4 or 5 matches, when doing skull dmg, every turn etc.