A pretty interesting video, about an hour long. Here’s the final list:
A pretty interesting video, about an hour long. Here’s the final list:
Hey @Tacet, thanks for putting the time in to make this video. I feel a little offended that you cited some random Youtuber as inspiration, considering that as far as I can tell, I was the first person to make a Mythic Tier List for like a year or so, but that’s kinda selfish/envious of me I guess.
After watching the video (yes, I watched the whole thing), here are my thoughts, comparing to my own tier list (You can find that here: https://tinyurl.com/GoWTierList):
If you set the Filter text box to “Mythic” it will display only troops of that rarity. This lets you choose a different troop order besides Base Rarity, and also means that Legendaries won’t appear after you start scrolling down.
I like how you concretely define resource speed, upscaling, and quick wins as your specific qualifiers for what makes a troop good. My qualifiers are slightly more vague, with winning quickly and having powerful synergies being the main points.
My guide kinda treats tiers differently; I combine C and D tier and a bit of F-tier into a single C-tier, which ends up being a dumping ground for all the bad Mythics.
Fully agree with your assessment; Ragnagord, Azura, Leprechaun, Gorgotha, Mountain Crusher, and Jar of Eyes can do pretty much the same thing with a lower mana investment, and since the latter two are Hero weapons, you can fully benefit from your choice of talents. Would love to see a buff; if they gave her the long-awaited “+50% mana to all Daemons” she would be actually useful as a supportive troop.
Still agree with you on Infernus being in the topmost tier and a priority first craft. I feel like people have been saying it’s a little underwhelming lately, but they’re completely wrong. As a new player, it is an incredibly powerful troop to center your team around, especially if you get it with your first Diamonds and use your first Chaos Shards to obtain Maraj Queen for that fast start. It doesn’t do anything better than any other troop does (there are troops that deal more damage and generate more mana), but it does all the things it does competently, and in combination it is incredibly useful.
Glad you agree on TINA! Excellent damage potential, and I really underestimated the contribution Armor provides when it was first spoiled. I held off on evaluating TINA when it was first released because I knew it was broken, and I ended up being right. The thing that’s really useful about TINA is that the damage becomes more concentrated the fewer enemies there are, which makes it much better than things that deal AoE damage. Keep in mind that in my opinion, you only really need one S-Tier damage dealer before you start moving on to craft the resource generation ones; if you already have TINA, don’t spend Diamonds on Infernus just yet, and vice versa. Wait until you have TPK, Pharos-Ra, Irongut, etc. Still worth going for once you get those though.
I feel Weaver is more of a solid A. Web is very useful, the True Damage can be quite nice (especially if you get that explosion off) and the summon is most certainly, in my opinion, the best in the game. No cast requirement, high % chance, and a very useful, synergistic, and powerful troop is created (if the enemies are webbed, Webspinner deals triple skull damage!). Webspinner is very synergistic with both itself (loops beget loops!) and Weaver, providing it with mana. I use it often in Delves as a fourth slot, and will often win even after losing one or two troops. Keep in mind that Webspinner’s triple damage relies on Poison, the most common immunity, but it also works off Web, which is not a common immunity and Weaver can provide that. I do agree on it being only deserving of A-Tier; it’s the equivalent of a support/supplemental DPS.
I feel Worldbreaker is more on the A side. It requires support, but it does really well when it gets it. If you get a Storm going with it, looping becomes a lot of fun and can be quite powerful. Also I caught that joke, saying you’re golden when using Bronzelock Pistol.
Euryali is a little odd, now that I think about it. REPEATEDLY placing Poison isn’t too useful, and I generally rate Poison as not being very helpful at all, since its damage is so low and immunity is so common. The true damage and summon are pretty bad too (even Abysnissia has a better summon!). The only real reason to use Euryali is for Scorpius, and even then Wyvern makes a decent substitute. Would love to see a buff for her though.
I put Yasmine’s Chosen in B, since it can do a pretty nice job once you get a loop going, but it certainly would like a buff of some kind, maybe indirectly. I feel like Green really suffers in terms of Mana generation, and that a Mountain Crusher or Skadi for Green mana would really cause it to catch up in terms of looping teams. I’ve seen a couple people urging me to put her in A-Tier, but as she is now, I find that kind of absurd.
I also put Gard’s Avatar in B, but it really is skirting the edge and I might demote it at some point. Back in the day it was essentially the game’s Infernus! I would really like to see it get some love, it could really use a buff. Maybe a trait that reduces all damage by 50%, but only to its Armor? That still wouldn’t protect from Yasmine’s Pride-style weapons though…
Agree with Wild Queen at B. I had it at C before, but the buff certainly helped it at least a bit. Again, I feel like better Green mana generation would really make this more viable.
Pharos-Ra is a little bit of a weird one to place. It’s not exceptionally useful in actual battles (it’s okay, but not great), but the fact is that the 150% soul gain is the only way I could have ever gotten Dawnbringer. It’s the only Mythic troop I recommend getting two of (I got my first copy as my first ever Mythic when it released, and crafted a second copy in the Soulforge). As such, I feel the need to place it at S-Tier, not particularly because it competes with Infernus and TINA’s power, but because it is exceptionally valuable, and I want to make sure that people who just glance at the list think to themselves “Okay, gotta craft this early.”
Feel like you were a little too harsh on Stonehammer. The Gem creation isn’t too bad, he’s great in teams with King Highforge, and I’ve used him a couple times in the Tower of Doom when I needed my Hero for something other than first slot Titan. I placed him at B.
Hard agree on Irongut; I feel like the only thing keeping it from dominating in the PvP sphere too is a lack of methods to boost attack. I’ve had some fun with a Worldbreaker/Irongut team though, whose goal is to just keep looping Irongut until you get Devours, using Mountain Crusher and Worldbreaker to clear the board over and over and Queen Aurora to help ensure the cascades always feed the team enough mana to keep casting. I remember the weekend he came out, I just blazed through to about level 40 on Tower of Doom. If there’s Devour immunity, you can always Curse, Transform, or just hit it with skulls.
Aaah, Ubastet. I placed him in A, since he’s not too bad, especially if you’re facing lower level troops, but that nerf hit him hard and I don’t know if he’ll ever recover without some kind of buff.
Champion of Anu is kinda middle-of-the-road. He’s great for Guild Wars but not much else. I placed him at B because that’s my “useful in some cases but not really in many others” tier.
The math that I did for Jotnar says 75 true damage is the cap. TINA can do that without placing any teambuilding restrictions on you. I have Jotnar at B but the fact that it doesn’t do much other than kill something is really swaying me towards demoting it. Barrier helps but one good turn for some opponents can completely lose you the game as many can attest.
I agree on Wulfgarok, the buff did not save him at all. I tried several different teams to get him to work but he just couldn’t seem to kill things fast enough for it to help against things like Yao Guai, which only need one good turn to decimate you. Hard C-Tier for me. In-game he has 23 base damage, which is hilariously abysmal.
I keep Gargantaur as my only F-Tier troop, partially as a bit of a joke, but I am seriusly considering putting Shade of Zorn down there as well. He’s abysmal, there are better Epics in this game.
Hard agree on Ketras, really feel like people underestimate him, especially in modes where Yasmine’s Pride is viable (like Tower of Doom and Delves). Great central damage dealer. Same point as I made before though, if you already own Infernus or TINA-9000, don’t craft Ketras until you already own your other important troops (Pharos, TPK, Irongut).
I struggle as hard as you do in placing TPK. He is really useful, but only as a support, and not as something you center a team around. I ended up placing him in A-Tier, then adding a section of the guide where I recommend crafting him early. Note on that spell, I believe I found via data mining that the spell will try to prioritize other troops if possible, meaning you’ll never see him transform the same troop twice if there are two or more enemy troops. I honestly disagree on him having a Storm attached to him; if it started creating Storms, it would become less viable in teams that use that color, like how Mountain Crusher’s Duststorm hurts you if you try to use it in a team not centered around Brown mana. Having the Storm separate means you can essentially choose what Storm you want to use with him.
We really disagree on Scorpius, huh? He’s performed quite nicely when I’ve used him. I’m still looking for the perfect team to capitalize on his synergy with Essence of Evil though. Use him with Euryali, Stun, or Wyvern.
Agree on Skadi. I do find her quite useful in Blue Guild Wars though, that Freeze + Shift + Mana Burn is a really useful disruption, and if your team is all Blue troops, Icestorm is a great piece of support. Same category as Champion of Anu, useful in GW but otherwise middle-of-the-road.
Voice of Orpheus, hard agree on this too. Feel like that trait is just there to kinda be an insulator, just to make sure that status effects don’t become completely out of control. I have him at B but maybe that’s another demote.
Elemaugrim really feels nice to play, he’s one of my favourite Mythics in the game in terms of aethetics and ability. I placed him at A along with Worldbreaker, since he loops really well with Purple. He’ll be considerably buffed if we someday get a +50% to all Dragons (maybe a hero class buff?). Agree to disagree I guess ¯_(ツ)_/¯. Also it is 4, but I think it’s kinda cheating that I can just open the game while writing this.
I agree on Megavore’s tier placement (A) but I feel like the main thing holding him back, rather than is health, is how much of a one-and-done troop he is. After the initial cast he essentially becomes a one shot troop with no side effects, essentially what you criticized Jotnar for being.
I feel that Queen Aurora not buffing herself complaint. Really prevents her from being used as often as The Possessed King, I often try to loop with her only to have her get targeted and killed first. Really sad.
Agree on Phoenicia being useless, I really wish they would give her a higher boost ratio, maybe then it would be useful.
I HAVE used Doomclaw in a couple teams, actually as a supporr, for that guaranteed Enrage. I use it in high-level Tower of Doom when I need a consistent source of Enrage but don’t want to lose my level 70 hero talent. But yeah, I do not use it primarily for its spell. I placed it at B for that. That gap-jumping point is definitely interesting though, never realized that.
I put Undine into a category with Skadi and Champion of Anu; all three are great at Blue GW but not much else. Bet you could probably cram them all into a team together with a good Mana generator… But yeah, agree with you here, just mediocre in every area.
Hard agree on Tian Yi; bad damage, bad stun, bad summon. Just use Ketras, Obsidius, or Weaver if you want those.
HAHA, somehow I didn’t notice and completely forgot that Phoenicia creates Burn instead of Faerie Fire. Guess we both got bamboozled. Suna is okay, deals an okay amount of damage, the Magic steal is a little interesting but Weaver is better at denying Magic, the Faerie Fire is inconsistent compared to Titania.
Hard agree on Draakulis’ rating, he really needs some love. The lack of side effects on its spell really drags it down, it’s one of those troops like Abynissia where it was good when it came out, then just… became not good.
What is it good for? People make that joke all the time… Anyway you REALLY need to look at War again, it didn’t lose its 50% chance! It got pushed down to its first trait, so they could replace Pyromania wiht Infernal Armor. It still has a 50% chance to deal True damage. Although looking back, double Skull damage to Burning enemies on top of a chance to ignore Armor is probably much better than reflecting damage dealt, so it’s still a Buff/Nerf. I’d still keep it in the tier it’s at though, I think the fact that he needs to be in first.
Plague is Disease and stat reduction, I guess. I remember seeing it be used with Lady Anariel and Behemoth for wall teams, but those have fallen out of favor I guess. Agree with your tier placement. Would love a buff.
Famine is still quite great I think. I remember the days when he was high-tier as well. Don’t think he needs a buff though, he’s still good in his niche with Guild Wars though.
I’m really harsh on Death, this troop just sucks. The Death Mark is nice, I guess? Even though it requires a lot of luck and time to kill anything in a super-fast meta. And the spell itself deals less damage than Sunbird, an Ultra-Rare? Yeah, I hate it.
Interesting point on Queen of Sin. Maybe she should be split into two? Could be flavorful, make them twins with similar abilities.
Fallen Valdis always sucked. I really tried to make her work when she came out but I couldn’t make it happen. I was optimistic about her trait, but it quickly got overshadowed by Plaguelord.
Obsidius damage, I did the math, deals 82 damage if the coin flip fails and 134 if it succeeds. This means that it only does equal to Infernus’ damage if it succeeds in hitting. I’d like if the second hit were a medium or heavy splash damage hit. It is good in Brown-based teams for its Duststorm trait though, and I love the unique trait. I ended up rating it an A.
I have rated Zuul’Goth as B-Tier due to how slow it feels in PvP, but I’ll have to try him in Delves once I get him. As you suggest, it seems like a pretty good option, but I really don’t like the Skull gem creation, seems way to risky. Additionally, you don’t get the massive stat boost that Devour provides. A thing to note, if you have both Irongut and Zuul’Goth, you now have instant killers in Blue, Purple, Red, Yellow, and Brown, and since every Delve has 2 colors, that means you have an instant killer for every Delve. Again, I’ll have to try it, I’m still 4 Major Ascension away and I haven’t spent any!
Shade of Zorn sucks.
To make things short, I really agree with most of your tier evaluations, although I would place Elemaugrim, Doomclaw, Stonehammer, and Scorpius a bit higher. Note also that War did not lose its true damage trait. The 50% chance to ignore Armor when dealing skull damage was moved to its first trait so that Pyromania could be replaced with Infernal Armor (which I still think is a nerf, since increased Skull damage to Burned enemies is quite useful).
Thanks again for the work you put into making this!
stonehammer is S + i cant believe dis list!
I went into watching Tacet’s video thinking I’d disagree with most of what he was going to say.
I still didn’t watch the video. Disingenuous, I know.
Saw the chart, and I don’t hate it. Agree with most of it, though I’d move some of them around.
Without destroying the list:
The Wild Queen: From B to A. After her gem creation buff, she does what she does really well and has enough consistency on gem creation to rely on her. She also has 2 sources of 50% mana start. In any game mode with similar stats to about 50-100% stats above your range, she’s a strong troop. (so great up to pet rescues, but not something I’d use in Delve 500 without an entangle troop). Far more reliable than The Worldbreaker. Definitely a fantastic troop for Guild Wars, PvP, pet battles, or other guild events.
Pharos Ra: From A to B. Its very good at soul gains, but if that’s all that its known for, I can’t really project it so high up. The damage is solid for low level players, but because of the soul cap per battle, it doesn’t scale well for late game. (still infinitely better than Shade of Zorn and the likes). It can already get a 40% mana start, but it still isn’t seen as one of the go to troops to use with said bonus mana start. Every other troop in the S and A category can be destructive (besides maybe The Possessed King) without setup costs, so I just don’t see it as a A.
The Possessed King: From A to B. I’m sure people will disagree with me here, so I’m not going to argue it. Great 3rd trait, but if I don’t want to cast its spell, then I’m not high rating something that has a flawed kit.
Yasmine’s Chosen: From C to B or A. I like Yasmine’s Chosen. She is easily self-loopable so she’s a strong participant in any content she can be used in. I’ve used her in delves; that’s how I got 500 on the very first Delve event. Guild Wars, check. Other events? check. PvP? sure. Not the most exciting troop to use and chance of miscast is a fair criticism. I say A, others should say its a B. Not a C troop though.
Famine: From B to C. Has troops that counter it now, 24 mana cost, no half mana start, no actual place it excels in for useage.
War: From C to D. Most of the D troops do more than War.
Voice of Orpheus: From D to C. It sucks that its skill is so weak, but that 3rd trait has important uses sometimes.
Tian Yi: From C to D. Just use Water Elemental please.
Stonehammer: From F to D. The buffed gem creations gives it fringe use
Wulfgarok: From F to D. The buffed 3rd trait gives it a fringe chance of being broken enough to win matches it has no place in being in
Xathenos: From F to D. Its fun to hate on this troop, but it’s absolutely not F terrible. Can single handedly win games provided it has enough time to cast two or three times. (which Im assuming all mythic are given a chance to at least cast once or twice). Its steals life and magic for self-preservation and damage boost.
Death: From D to F. “Almost” better off using a Doom troop.
Green Seer, Queen Aurora, Forest Troll, Spirit Dancer (not really), Urska Druid
She has enough support troops to already be good, but it couldn’t hurt to have more.
I see her as an A rank and play her like an S rank. I’d rather use her over Tacet’s A list of Weaver, Ra, TPK (for offense), Megavore.
I like Zuul more on offense, but dang if it isn’t riskier to use Zuul sometimes.
If nothing else, I want to shout out @EliteMasterEric for the Steam Mythic guide. I really appreciate that you took the time/effort to write out the reasons for your placings and learned a lot from them. I look forward to any updates!
A few observations, based on what I’ve read:
For a non-S-tier, it seems like AW gets the most complaints of any of the mythics.
Most polarizing mythics, it seems, are the green duo (Wild Queen and Yasmine’s Chosen), where people vary between rating them as top-tier and average.
Worldbreaker, Scorpius, and Elemaugrim each have their backers and detractors, but the variance isn’t as great as the green duo.
There is a minority that find Champion of Anu and Voice of Orpheus to be above average, but the consensus is that they are C-tier or worse.
For the other mythics, there is not significant disagreement from what I’ve seen.
Thanks for the feedback! Love to see people who are actually analyzing this stuff.
Weaver does seem to be somewhat polarizing (I say somewhat because everyone seems to agree it’s at least GOOD). A personal tip for Weaver are that some people underestimate the power of just casting Weaver without a kill present, the magic negation is very potent. Especially against spell-damage-based teams, it’s like placing a full entangle on a skull spam team. Additionally, I have used it as a fourth slot in Delves several times, and occasionally things will go bad, the opponent gets a cascade, and I lose two slots. Interestingly, in those cases, if I can just get a Weaver trigger, I can coast off the first Webspinner’s skull damage to create another, and at that point I basically have a semi-infinite green loop. That alone has won me a couple of delves I would have lost otherwise. It definitely doesn’t meet the criteria for S-Tier primary damage dealer though, but it certainly is on the high side of A-tier.
It does seem that many of the mid-tier mythics have had different performance for different people, resulting in different ratings. Maybe we don’t need to fix it, just respect it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I find Stonehammer to be way better than F category
Mythics rank differently depending on normal pvp, guild wars, or delve.
While one champion of anu is kinda meh, three champion of anu behind something like drakulis is powerful. Dawnbringer + 3 champion of anu is also great for some tasks.
Pharos Ra is sucky, except that it should be the fist mythic every player should craft just for the huge soul farming possibility. Maybe also the second and third. Because it will get you dawnbringer
The Possessed King, probably the most fun troop you’ll ever craft. Should be the second troop any player would make. That third trait is a boost to sooo many decks, and it’s fun.
High King Iron Gut, he only really shines in deep delves with 100 horde. But he’s an easy way to delve level 500 for his color delves.
Voice of Orpheus, really important certain guild war days against certain teams. For end game players. But thats better then many mythics that don’t have a good use.
My point on Weaver was just that people complain about it more than the nominal S-tiers Infernus, TINA, and Ketras. I totally get your point about it not doing as much raw damage as those three, and that you view it as a support Mythic, much like TPK and Queen Aurora, which makes sense since you have them all at A tier.
Speaking of Aurora, you seem to be down on it, is it not as good as those other supports?
As for consensus, yeah, you won’t ever be able to pin things down so much that there won’t be any disagreement. But it would be nice, especially for the Mythics where there is significant disagreement, to have more information about why there’s a discrepancy. It would be especially helpful for backers of specific Mythics to provide their example teams (like you did in the guide) and explain how those teams are good against the more common/standard top-tier teams.
Aurora is good, but not as good as the other supports. It’s useful in specific cases when you need that +mana boost, but often times in generic cases you’ll want to use The Possessed King instead.
However, as I state in my guide, Aurora is a viable substitute in quite a few cases, to the point where if you have one, you need not prioritize the other and vice versa.
also color restrictions can make it so you might only be able to use one over the other so Id say its good to have both. but i will agree that in a case where you can use either one, TPK is the boss.
But two Auroras
@Tacet looks like this list might need an update with this update
Yeah it looks like Death has moved up to S-Tier now with the buff he got
Someone has not been looking at the recent changes to The Wild Queen and Stonehammer. Which @TheIdleOne mentions in more detail.
For a start, they can be paired together and work great with Doomed Xbox or even Yao in between.
I’m around 70% win rate on defence since February (7k battles) and most of that time I’ve ran this team I made Stonehammer//Glaycion or TWQ/Doomed Xbox or Glaive and a choice of any empowered. If I run that team on offence it can be slower than some but rarely does it fail.
As an example re TWQ, I’ve just done GW today and all Rope Dart meta had 0 attack during so all you need do is kill Rope and you can leave a million skulls if you want. Eventually your doomed weapon will crush them.
Also I agree re TPK great that he is, Obsidius or say Stonehammer… knackers it.
My evaluation from the other thread:
TL;dr Nobody was using Death for the spell damage, it’s still worse than an Ultra-Rare, and all the other buffs were hilariously small.
So are we agreeing with Tacet that TPK is a tier above Queen Aurora, basically?
@UKresistance I don’t think we should consider the effect of having multiples of the same mythic, which is not a realistic scenario for many players. That would also unduly skew an overall list towards the support Mythics and Pharos-Ra.
Yeah, Stonehammer being bottom tier in Tacet’s list seems like an aberration, nobody else seems to think that.
As for Death, I think the devs rightfully want to be careful about buffing Death Mark, a dumb rng mechanic (like devour) that could easily become OP if they aren’t careful. You’re right though that it does seem to need an overhaul, and I think they could easily do something buffing Death while Death Marks are active (i.e. a trait that does bonus damage to death marked opponents, or increases the chance of insta-kill on 4/5 matches) instead.
I’ve always been in the camp that thinks Queen Aurora needs to do something to herself, even if its just self-barrier. Lady Anariel can self-heal as an epic troop while doing similar things.
All I stated was that Tacet might need to update the list I think you got the wrong address