# Sunspear Changes **URL:** \ **Category:** Official News\ **Created:** [March 12, 2020, 6:06am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/sunspear-changes/61949 "2020-03-12T06:06:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mithran](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mithran/32/18064_2.png) [@Mithran](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mithran)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 7:22am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/sunspear-changes/61949/21 "2020-03-12T07:22:39Z")
Thank you. > [@Evelyn](#): > > Thank you for listening! I would actually say it wasn’t _just_ Phoenicia that needed Sunspear - in fact, nearly every existing Sunspear team was built around the original trait, so I don’t think most of them would have worked. And yes, this. Every Champion of Gaard setup that I liked using at _all_ pretty much required using Sunspear to ensure that I had a consistent Firestorm. And some of my Stonehammer setups. While probably not the best teams in terms of farming or speed, these were things that I would enjoy trotting out every once in a while. Because the troops were mostly defensive in nature, it was _common_ for the battle to drag on long enough for a starting storm to fade and the team’s effectiveness to hit a wall - one missed cast and there was pretty much no way to regain board control, making them miserable to play rather than a fun little diversion. Also glad to hear that it wasn’t an intentional nerf and that the reasoning originally communicated for the change was actually the reason. Means my feedback was potentially not wasted. Going to further give my feedback that it would be completely unnecessary to change anything on the Fire Tree, to remove the fire tree from sunspear, or even remove the Fireproof trait from Sunspear. There are overlaps with the talent tree, but there are also _other choices_. It doesn’t bother me that one of the minor talents of one tree on a class coincides with one of the minor traits (it would if one of the minor talents was strictly better or the same as the _legendary_ trait, as was the case with pre-release Stormcaller, which _was_ addressed before release). I also want to express that I understand why you don’t want to add the +2 mana traits to troops and I’m not really of the opinion that you’d need to put them on troops, but I also disagree with your reasoning. Per _turn_ mana generation is barely impacted by these traits. Opening casts can be _hugely_ impactful, so getting whatever you use to generate up a turn sooner with matches helps a lot… but mattered a lot more before there were a flood of empowered converters (and 2 exploders and a spawner) to lead into spells that can cycle into other colors or gain board control or just win. Any troop in question that would benefit “too much” from **stacking** +2 mana links (ie., using 2 or more of them) would have to have self loop capability or an immediately lethal spell or empowered or some variation there of to _want_ to stack them. Current game state makes it possible to accelerate the highest cost troop, Zuul’Goth, a 32 mana troop (26 with anu, no half mana options) with an _always_ lethal spell, on turn 1 or 2. Stacking links on troops that didn’t generate and aren’t empowered wouldn’t make this faster or more consistent, not on first cast, and not on the refill, it’d make it slower and more inconsistent, especially if said traits were in the place of legendary traits and also not using the hero. For example, a +6 blue links and +2 blue banner would allow him to generate 14 mana in a single blue match with a surge or 16 on a match 5, but only on blue, with no way to generate blue or recycle, so it has to be available right from the start. This is explicitly consistently slower than using a dedicated generator (or 3), empowered converters, and having the hero, where you can force 5 matches, or board clears with storms to generate _far_ more mana far more consistently than any match 3 with any amount of theoretical links you could stack. I’m bringing this up because there seems to be the assumption that these double links are at a certain power level which may have been true in the days long gone, when they aren’t now, or that they somehow allow unchecked mana generation to the point where stacking them would somehow make mana generation out of control, when we are already generating tons of mana every turn. They are good in very specific situations where they coincide with getting whatever is generating for the team up a turn sooner and better with very types of troops that can self generate, but you need these types of troops present for them to shine. Long gone are the days when people would stack stone link to one-shot some battles with War and Peace in one brown match on Archer… now you’d just cast Leprechaun. Balance wise, putting double links on a troop with a mediocre or bad spell would mean not only would they _not_ get stacked, but the troop would probably not be used all that much at all. This should also, hopefully, explain why storm control of your preferred color is **not** of equal value (or power) to a +2 mana link and why it was considered a massive nerf to trade the former for the latter. Even in terms of direct generation potential. But again, I’m not saying _to_ put +2 links on troops, I’m still in agreement that you **shouldn’t** put double links on troops but for a different reason. Having them on hero classes where the hero classes have decent trees and heros have a wide variety of weapon selections to choose from to define their role within the team, making it _more_ likely that they’ll actually have a combo with an identity that sets it apart. Corsair isn’t quite there yet because of lack of troops that synergize with both his trait and his trees. Archmagus is a good blueprint at what can work, but most of its best qualities are shared with Frostmage, who can get freeze immunity, freeze others, and submerge instead of that +2 purple link and is generally more universally applicable. Still, the +2 purple link is enough to _occasionally_ set Archmagus apart and carve out a niche. Thats what I’m hoping for whatever classes happen to land with these, as there are some that have _really_ bad traits right now. I still think we need some tree tweaks for these classes to be decent even with the trait changes, but thats what I’m hoping for. ---
**Author:** ![Shimrra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/shimrra/32/87_2.png) [@Shimrra](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Shimrra)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 7:32am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/sunspear-changes/61949/22 "2020-03-12T07:32:12Z")
Just need to actually make the rest of classes even vaguely useful. At the moment, that is only around a dozen of them (excepting very niche teams like 4x Dragons using Dragonguard or 4x Divines using Priest). ---
**Author:** ![anhlong1122](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/anhlong1122/32/63110_2.png) [@anhlong1122](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/anhlong1122)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 8:34am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/sunspear-changes/61949/23 "2020-03-12T08:34:16Z")
Play you game, play the Sunspear class and you will understand that +2 red mana and perma red storm do not have equal value. ---
**Author:** ![Stix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/edb3f5/32.png) [@Stix](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Stix)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 8:37am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/sunspear-changes/61949/24 "2020-03-12T08:37:15Z")
I’ve never used sunspear in any meaningful way, so I have no strong feelings about the design. But I’m very happy to see this response after yesterdays outrage 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Evelyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/evelyn/32/59789_2.png) [@Evelyn](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Evelyn)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 8:53am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/sunspear-changes/61949/25 "2020-03-12T08:53:46Z")
One thing that really has always bugged me, is why Sunspear has the Forest tree. Which includes a literally unusable talent for it, Nature’s Aura. Since Firestarter actually has some function on defense teams it’s not useless to Sunspear, but Nature’s Aura is a much bigger issue. Surely the solution would be to replace Sunspear’s Forest with a different tree? It would lose Root Trap, which I do like, but literally no other talents from that tree are helpful to Sunspear in any way. ---
**Author:** ![PandaSSA](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/pandassa/32/37749_2.png) [@PandaSSA](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/PandaSSA)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 9:02am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/sunspear-changes/61949/26 "2020-03-12T09:02:26Z")
> [@Nimhain](#): > > _Will the newer version of the trait (+2 Red Mana) come back as a Legendary Trait in the future?_ > > If so, it will only be on a Hero Class. Unfortunately, these +2 Link traits cannot exist on regular (non-Hero) troops, as that allows them to be stacked, and allows too much mana to generate in a single turn. It’s very simple. We have one forgotten class that is a useless giant — **Warlord**. Just two small changes that will not affect the talents. First change: Trait **Bonfire of war** (or **Gift of Fire** ) _Gain 2 bonus Red Mana when matching Red gems._ Second change: Troop Type **Elemental** Reasons — The Warlord’s Mana Color is Red. In Broken Spire most troops are Elementals. This will make the class more attractive to gamers, especially for beginners. And no need to change the talent’s tree. ---
**Author:** ![xolid99](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/xolid99/32/66856_2.png) [@xolid99](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/xolid99)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 10:10am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/sunspear-changes/61949/27 "2020-03-12T10:10:03Z")
Thanks for listening to feedback and reverting that change. ---
**Author:** ![Saephism](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@Saephism](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Saephism)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 10:15am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/sunspear-changes/61949/28 "2020-03-12T10:15:06Z")
Thank you so much for listening to the community \<3 ---
**Author:** ![Slapnugget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/779978/32.png) [@Slapnugget](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Slapnugget)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 10:37am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/sunspear-changes/61949/29 "2020-03-12T10:37:09Z")
Thanks so much! ---
**Author:** ![jeno](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jeno/32/20235_2.png) [@jeno](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/jeno)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 11:36am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/sunspear-changes/61949/30 "2020-03-12T11:36:22Z")
thank you~~~ sunspear usually tackle pvp problem rather than explore since in pvp AI team hero typically overwrite any storm a player has. ---
**Author:** ![Gibbem](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/gibbem/32/36957_2.png) [@Gibbem](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Gibbem)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 12:05pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/sunspear-changes/61949/31 "2020-03-12T12:05:31Z")
Thanks for listening to us! ---
**Author:** ![ANGI](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@ANGI](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/ANGI)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 12:33pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/sunspear-changes/61949/32 "2020-03-12T12:33:57Z")
Thanks so much for listening ---
**Author:** ![Slypenslyde](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/slypenslyde/32/30373_2.png) [@Slypenslyde](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Slypenslyde)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 1:04pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/sunspear-changes/61949/33 "2020-03-12T13:04:36Z")
Can someone enlighten me as to what the instant-win 4000 GW points Sunspear team is that made people so hurt that it was taken away? Does it require the level 200 talent cheat? I haven’t tried that yet. I want to see what all the hype was about. ---
**Author:** ![Grundulum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/82dd89/32.png) [@Grundulum](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Grundulum)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 1:14pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/sunspear-changes/61949/34 "2020-03-12T13:14:15Z")
Hyperbolic much? ---
**Author:** ![OnTheCan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecd19e/32.png) [@OnTheCan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/OnTheCan)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 1:23pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/sunspear-changes/61949/35 "2020-03-12T13:23:35Z")
Thank you for listening to the players. The perma storm was one of the primary identities of this class and the change is very helpful for a variety of reasons not just Phoenicia team. Thank you for listening. ---
**Author:** ![bobbydvt247](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/74df32/32.png) [@bobbydvt247](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/bobbydvt247)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 1:26pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/sunspear-changes/61949/36 "2020-03-12T13:26:56Z")
While I applaud the changes, I have to say the community should be embarrassed by their response to the change. Not that they were trying to voice valid concerns (cause they should and in some ways were) but how they went about doing it. I won’t call players out of course, but maybe next update when you have your inevitable outrage moments, collect some thoughts, gather some data, make a good poll, spread the word, and form cohesive responses. I understand there are countless examples of the devs makes changes like ETs and gold nerfs that have no chance of being reversed, but this wasn’t one of them, and it was pretty obvious this was going to be the final conclusion. Now let’s go over the explore/PvP/GW/non phoenicia just for fun. Explore: you win in one turn, if you aren’t, then you aren’t playing phoenicia right. Sure there are explore troops that can change the storm, so just change kingdoms or dare I say, charge phoenicia twice? But if you have to do that, you are already in a battle too long. PvP: A few players were using this to climb and farm super high in PvP. The outcry that phoenicia was the only team that could do that is 100% ridiculous and false. Players are just to stubborn to switch teams. No doubt the firestorm getting wiped would slow things down, except when I use heirophant class leveling in PvP I’m winning a lot of times before my initial Firestorm ends. (I never use phoenicia). So the myth that this is the only way to farm PvP quickly is pretty easily busted. Overall, sure I’ll say it could have an impact on players using only phoenicia and only for LB running, but other than that there are other options. GW Red Day: I will admit this one would be an issue for some, and only really affected top bracket players who would require ultimate board control. But yes, this change would hurt a GW Red team no doubt. Other teams: I’ve seen mention of other sunspear use in champion of Gaard teams among others and that def can have an affect. But the outcry mainly was being pushed by the phoenicia crowd, not the Gaard users. But from what I’ve seen, yes, this would have a big impact on those teams as well. Overall do I think the change back was neccessary? Def 100% yes. I may hate on the people hate for their reaction and in fact disagree with their full outrage on the change, BUT, I believe the community deserves to enjoy their OP teams if that’s what they want. The poll made yesterday was clearly in favor of reverting and I’m glad that’s the decision the devs came too. I’m not on the side of the devs or the side of the community here, but I am on the side of cordial stat based discourse opposed to sarcastic posts and remarks that make zero headway and only continue to deteriorate an already tense relationship. Many will disagree with me here and that’s perfectly fine and I understand. I said this during the ET debate, but seriously, if you hate the devs and this game soo much just do us all a favor and quit please. On that note I’m done with the forums. It’s a toxic mess not worth the time, I rather play the game instead. ---
**Author:** ![Keylime](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/keylime/32/54949_2.png) [@Keylime](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Keylime)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 1:28pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/sunspear-changes/61949/37 "2020-03-12T13:28:13Z")
I’m beside myself with joy…thank you guys so much @Nimhain and @Sirrian for reverting this…not only at all…but so quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Slypenslyde](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/slypenslyde/32/30373_2.png) [@Slypenslyde](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Slypenslyde)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 1:36pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/sunspear-changes/61949/38 "2020-03-12T13:36:16Z")
> [@Grundulum](#): > > Hyperbolic much? My hypothesis is “it’s one of many teams that is good at what it does, and not necessarily the best.” I know you explained it to me as “a fun team”, but I’m still astonished that people were more angry about this than “GW hasn’t worked right on the Switch since release” or “the new troop released with the wrong ablity again”. I also get the “straw that broke the camel’s back” argument but seriously. People are saying, “Now the game is finally fun again.” So I want to play with this team and see what it can do. Remember, any time I’ve argued for a nerf, I’ve been continuously told I’m a loser who is too stupid to just build another team. So I want to try this team that was being used so passionately. There’s not a hidden payload here. I’m too lazy to sit down and evaluate it as a kind of “I can’t believe people were so happy about this”. I’m more interested in, “People seem to really like this team, I want to try it for myself.” And if it happens to kick ass and finish Pet Rescues in 10 seconds then, well, I found a new thing. But so far all I see is “this is a terrible change” without a lot of specific discussion of how some team that relied on it was the best counter for a meta strategy or some game mode and that there’s no good substitute. ---
**Author:** ![Arg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5daacb/32.png) [@Arg](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Arg)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 1:36pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/sunspear-changes/61949/39 "2020-03-12T13:36:57Z")
I do not have Phoencia, but I use Sunspear for many other favorite farming teams! I am happy the feedback was taken seriously and the change reverted. Thank you for listening! ---
**Author:** ![igniteice](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/igniteice/32/67904_2.png) [@igniteice](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/igniteice)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 2:53pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/sunspear-changes/61949/40 "2020-03-12T14:53:09Z")
Thanks for listening! I’m going to be blunt though: this is the kind of backlash that could have been entirely avoided if you would have just asked people before you made the change to begin with. From my understanding, the change wasn’t on Beta so none of them knew about it either. I’m not saying the playerbase always knows best (because I bet if you asked them all “Hey, want 10k free gems?” they’d all say yes), but in this case, we’re the ones trying to enjoy the game, and this change was something that took away from that, which isn’t something that should happen. [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/sunspear-changes/61949.md?page=1) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/sunspear-changes/61949.md?page=3)