# Strange Guild Wars bracket movement **URL:** \ **Category:** Support\ **Created:** [May 8, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815 "2017-05-08T21:12:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Zelith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/zelith/32/21457_2.png) [@Zelith](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Zelith)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 3:00pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/21 "2017-05-15T15:00:22Z")
Or it could just be a bug. From over in [Points from last week's guild wars are not carrying over](http://community.gemsofwar.com/t/points-from-last-weeks-guild-wars-are-not-carrying-over/23384/) it’s obvious something is hinky in the rollover. ---
**Author:** ![DonBoba](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/donboba/32/25457_2.png) [@DonBoba](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/DonBoba)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/22 "2017-05-15T15:11:15Z")
Ok my theory was proven wrong 😃 Why aren’t the devs coming to reveal logic behind these stuff? @Sirrian @Nimhain @Saltypatra We don’t need people getting further mad about GW, so lets explain something that can be explained. ---
**Author:** ![Fourdottwoone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/fourdottwoone/32/66655_2.png) [@Fourdottwoone](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Fourdottwoone)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 4:51pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/23 "2017-05-15T16:51:11Z")
Somehow Tigerclaw got promoted to bracket 1, #7 for this week. This is pretty unexpected, we did place in the upper half of bracket 2, not in the first three positions though (799,277 final score). Maybe it’s using inverse registration time as part of the algorithm, we did register late this week. 😠 ---
**Author:** ![Rasper](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/rasper/32/2363_2.png) [@Rasper](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rasper)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 5:33pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/24 "2017-05-15T17:33:18Z")
> [@Fourdottwoone](#): > > Somehow Tigerclaw got promoted to bracket 1, #7 for this week. This is pretty unexpected, we did place in the upper half of bracket 2, not in the first three positions though (799,277 final score). Maybe it’s using inverse registration time as part of the algorithm, we did register late this week. 😠 And with a score of 862,320 Druid’s Grove again stayed in bracket 2, in spite of finishing with a higher score than over half of bracket 1. /boggle ---
**Author:** ![katus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/katus/32/27883_2.png) [@katus](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/katus)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 6:53pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/25 "2017-05-15T18:53:36Z")
I can see that usually there are the same people commenting so I thought that another voice of frustration would not harm anyone 😊 I logged in today, checked​ tables and Hoguns on 6th place and I was like ‘oh they did manage bracket 1 and they did real good’. I checked to confirm my guild stayed in bracket 2 and what are we up against this week and BOOM - Hoguns. That is ridiculous and I feel for you guys. ---
**Author:** ![Salibu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/salibu/32/23083_2.png) [@Salibu](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Salibu)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 6:56pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/26 "2017-05-15T18:56:25Z")
My guild finished 3rd by a hair. Almost 2nd. We went down too. It makes no sense. We also faced the 1st and eventual 2nd best guilds. I also noticed guilds in the bracket below us who also did worse moved past us. Something is stink imo ---
**Author:** ![Salibu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/salibu/32/23083_2.png) [@Salibu](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Salibu)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/27 "2017-05-15T19:13:13Z")
Also this: ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/5/0/50d77f00e039ed04647a153e892c7e7f755666de.jpg) ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/2/e/2e5c5354fbe8ce2171f69d85d70d37118c753f25.jpg) How does a guild earn pts before its begun. We were in 211-219 bracket…and moved down after finishing 3rd…barely missed 2nd. We are SMB Bros ---
**Author:** ![Darkness](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/darkness/32/2712_2.png) [@Darkness](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Darkness)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 10:38am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/28 "2017-05-16T10:38:56Z")
There appears to be a rather stunning lack of dev response to both topics raising this question… I guess they don’t know how the bracket movement in GW works either? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tacet](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/tacet/32/35_2.png) [@Tacet](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Tacet)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 11:21am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/29 "2017-05-16T11:21:22Z")
> [@Darkness](#): > > I guess they don’t know how the bracket movement in GW works either? They said at the beginning of all of this that they wouldn’t disclose it out of fear that everyone would start to exploit it once they do. ---
**Author:** ![Darkness](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/darkness/32/2712_2.png) [@Darkness](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Darkness)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 11:23am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/30 "2017-05-16T11:23:41Z")
So, we’re just expected to accept all the strange guild bracket movement then? > [@Darkness](#): > > > [@Aelthwyn](#): > > > > This week is even more strange. The two guilds that have been moved down from bracket 1 to bracket 2 were #5 and #6 at the end of last week. > > > > It would be really nice to have some explanations on the criteria. > > Indeed. This is getting ridiculous! > > Last week ago the number 7, 8 and 9 finishers in bracket 1 were demoted to bracket 2 while the number 10 finisher (Match Masters) stayed in bracket 1. And today the number 5 and 6 finishers were just demoted to bracket 2, while Match Masters finished number 10 again and they stayed in bracket 1. I have nothing against Match Masters but this is just plain crazy! How can a guild that finishes last in bracket 1 two weeks in a row stay in bracket 1 while number 9, 8 and 7 were demoted last week and number 5 and 6 were demoted today? Or is the number 4 finisher going to be demoted next week? 🙄 > > @Sirrian, @Nimhain, @Saltypatra: Some explanation is absolutely essential here. Currently the relegations from seem to be completely arbitrary, and considering this is supposed to be a competition that can’t be considered a good thing! ---
**Author:** ![Annaerith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/annaerith/32/13840_2.png) [@Annaerith](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Annaerith)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 11:41am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/31 "2017-05-16T11:41:07Z")
> [@Tacet](#): > > everyone would start to exploit it once they do. not good enough reason to me, if thats where the real cometition should be situatied in (in those hidden rules) either bring it to the light or change the rules so that they arent abusable ppl should be allowed to fight for the rewards with clear rules about actually who wins lets say two kids play soccer, one of them scores more goals then the other. but its actually mom who says which kid won and to which she will give the cake. so what the goals were for, just to show their effort to convince mom? are those really fair game rules? should the kid wear mom’s favorite shirt or smile more? … not to mention there is zero competitions for adults that would accept such unclear rules pvp reward table has no such unclear rules the mistake devs made is to tie ‘matchmaking’ gw aspect with the ‘rewards’ aspect, while for matcmaking there is some fair reasoning to hide how it is done, hiding how rewarding ppl is done is nonsense ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 12:07pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/32 "2017-05-16T12:07:26Z")
That’s just not good enough, sorry. No offense to Match Masters but when they finish last in bracket 1 two weeks in a row and yet remain in bracket 1, why would we care if the system can be exploited? The system has no integrity in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Azbra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/azbra/32/23589_2.png) [@Azbra](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Azbra)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 12:40pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/33 "2017-05-16T12:40:36Z")
Another explanation is that movement is determined by number of fights won. If a guild decide to forego the color day and fight with their best team available: they would certainly win all the fights but get pretty low scores. Any motivated guild to try it out? ---
**Author:** ![Salibu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/salibu/32/23083_2.png) [@Salibu](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Salibu)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 1:39pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/34 "2017-05-16T13:39:10Z")
I find the devs lack of telling us anything disturbing. For a guild to finish last 2 weeks in a row in the top bracket but not move down screams of pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![kynetarse](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/kynetarse/32/24815_2.png) [@kynetarse](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/kynetarse)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 4:07pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/35 "2017-05-16T16:07:54Z")
This is not something that should be opaque. Has caused even more outcry now because a bottom team has not moved down for multiple weeks in a row. ---
**Author:** ![Luther](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/luther/32/24788_2.png) [@Luther](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Luther)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/36 "2017-05-16T18:09:24Z")
> [@Tacet](#): > > > [@Darkness](#): > > > > I guess they don’t know how the bracket movement in GW works either? > > They said at the beginning of all of this that they wouldn’t disclose it out of fear that everyone would start to exploit it once they do. Rotfl, i guess it’s just bugs. Why on earth you would make a competition and not tell the rules for winning it? The most probable answer is that the ladder was intended in some way, and some bug is preventing it from working right. ---
**Author:** ![captain\_video](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/db5fbb/32.png) [@captain\_video](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/captain_video)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 7:04pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/37 "2017-05-16T19:04:21Z")
I suspect the missing ingredient in the formula is total VIP points of the guild, plus VIP points earned by guild members in the previous week. For consistency’s sake, the devs should blank out all the spell power and troop trait descriptions; if the players knew what they were, they might seek to exploit them. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 7:49pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/38 "2017-05-16T19:49:47Z")
Or the intention all along was to reward the very top guilds over and over again. I’d love to think I’m wrong but past behavior has always accomplished this in one way or another. ---
**Author:** ![AeroCloud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d26b3c/32.png) [@AeroCloud](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/AeroCloud)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 7:54pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/39 "2017-05-16T19:54:50Z")
I have to agree with how it appears. However you must think that anyone who has the most experience should and most likely will be at the top. However based on how these wars are working, if you are at the bottom. It could take you months or years before your guild moves to the top bracket with 100% participation and 30 active players. I think the way this system currently works is BOGUS. How about a system where the DEVS set each of the 5 teams each and every person fights every week. There are no “brackets” and its only purely based on the points gained from your guilds battles. This is a far simpler system and I think it fairer to new players. Older players or top guilds may disagree because they don’t want the additional competition that this would inspire. Setting the 5 teams, also puts everyone on EXACTLY the same level. ---
**Author:** ![Luther](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/luther/32/24788_2.png) [@Luther](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Luther)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 7:59pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/40 "2017-05-16T19:59:41Z")
My 2 cents: i think the part in the code for the “initial” placing (the one that did put guilds on certain brackets depending their placing on the pvp ladder), has some faulty parts interconnected with the “normal” GW placing code. Every week something connected with that “initial” placing keeps getting activated and seems to go against the “normal” placing, and they mix up. we have one proof: some guilds at bracket 2, managed to reach bracket one, so the mechanism to move from brackets is there. another hint: every week MANY guilds lose totally their progression (E.g.: their total points history is 0). i think this 0 point thing is really spread, and triggers again the “initial” placing code part, or somehow hinders and blocks the code for the “normal” on to work well. I don’t want to think of ANY malicious intentions, just because the GW has been coded recently, and i consider it in BETA at the current state, and we are the bug testers. so far, what we can do is just to help them kill every bug so we can have a clean experience of it. [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815.md?page=1) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815.md?page=3)