# Strange Guild Wars bracket movement **URL:** \ **Category:** Support\ **Created:** [May 8, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815 "2017-05-08T21:12:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fourdottwoone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/fourdottwoone/32/66655_2.png) [@Fourdottwoone](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Fourdottwoone)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/1 "2017-05-08T21:12:14Z")
**What you were expecting to happen, and what actually happened?** This week Tigerclaw finished #7 in bracket 1 (772559 points), Match Masters finished #10 in bracket 1 (724469 points). As a result, Tigerclaw was moved down to bracket 2 (#15), Match Masters stayed in bracket 1 and moved up to #2. There might be something broken with the placement algorithm here, it feels strange that a worse performing guild moves up in ranks while a better performing guild is demoted. ---
**Author:** ![Rasper](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/rasper/32/2363_2.png) [@Rasper](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rasper)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/2 "2017-05-08T21:15:57Z")
Druid’s Glade did better than both, 873,692, but stayed in bracket 2 behind Tigerclaw. ---
**Author:** ![mitamata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mitamata/32/10313_2.png) [@mitamata](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/mitamata)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 9:44pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/3 "2017-05-08T21:44:39Z")
I think the devs are trying to be a bit sneaky here. They’ve been clear that they don’t want us to know exactly how moving through brackets works: > [@Guild Wars - Sneak Peek Wrap Up](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-wars-sneak-peek-wrap-up/21806/1): > > If you finish near the top, it’s LIKELY (but not 100% certain) you will move up the following week, perhaps even more than one bracket. Similarly if you finish near the bottom you may move down… this all depends on how well you do during the week. So I suspect maybe something other than the current week’s points affects the movement through brackets. Though it would be nice if they would at least tell us if the brackets are working as intended or if they are, like most other aspects of guild wars, a buggy mess. I wish I had remembered to take screenshots of our bracket to see how things worked out in it. ---
**Author:** ![Tacet](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/tacet/32/35_2.png) [@Tacet](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Tacet)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 10:22pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/4 "2017-05-08T22:22:26Z")
It may partially be based on trophies. Match Masters does have the 3rd highest trophies of any guild. ---
**Author:** ![actreal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/actreal/32/1945_2.png) [@actreal](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/actreal)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 11:10pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/5 "2017-05-08T23:10:43Z")
> [@Tacet](#): > > It may partially be based on trophies. Match Masters does have the 3rd highest trophies of any guild. Or guild level - Match Masters has probably got higher guild XP than younger guilds. Or results from more than one week - how did they do the previous week? ---
**Author:** ![Fourdottwoone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/fourdottwoone/32/66655_2.png) [@Fourdottwoone](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Fourdottwoone)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 11:11pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/6 "2017-05-08T23:11:04Z")
> [@Tacet](#): > > It may partially be based on trophies. Match Masters does have the 3rd highest trophies of any guild. Which would feel like a weird design decision. It’s probably reasonable as one of the factors to initialize placements, it’s the third week now though. Why should a high trophy count push you up to the second position when you finished last in your bracket? To counter that theory, Black Pearl placed #9 in bracket 1 and were moved to #13 in bracket 2. Tigerclaw has more trophies than Black Pearl, still Black Pearl came out ahead after performing worse. ---
**Author:** ![Tifa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/tifa/32/24404_2.png) [@Tifa](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Tifa)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 11:34pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/7 "2017-05-08T23:34:07Z")
It may simply have to do with quality of opponents – sentinel levels, team ratings, etc – with the final hidden score adjusted accordingly. Or a comparative score between guilds that actually fought each other. There are 10 guilds in a bracket, but only 6 fights. Not everyone got to fight everyone else, and some guilds put up noticeably tougher defences than others. It wouldn’t be fair to promote/demote a guild just because their set of opponents were easier/tougher than other guilds either. (I’m inclined to go with bug as the explanation though, considering the numerous other GW related bugs already floating around.) ---
**Author:** ![beanie42](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/beanie42/32/19802_2.png) [@beanie42](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/beanie42)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 12:25am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/8 "2017-05-09T00:25:16Z")
> [@Tacet](#): > > It may partially be based on trophies. Match Masters does have the 3rd highest trophies of any guild. It could be, but I sure hope not. GW should be its own mode/competition. It shouldn’t be based on PvP results. Initial seeding is one thing, but ongoing would be horrible. ---
**Author:** ![Annaerith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/annaerith/32/13840_2.png) [@Annaerith](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Annaerith)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 11:23am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/9 "2017-05-09T11:23:53Z")
> [@Tifa](#): > > There are 10 guilds in a bracket, but only 6 fights. Not everyone got to fight everyone else, and some guilds put up noticeably tougher defences than others. It wouldn’t be fair to promote/demote a guild just because their set of opponents were easier/tougher than other guilds either. i hope either this is the case or its a bug i understand devs may not want us to know exact _formulas_ _but we at least deserve to know_ all **components** of that formula! how are we suppose to take part in most _competitive_ asppect of the game when not knowing what are the **conditions to win**? ---
**Author:** ![Aelthwyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/aelthwyn/32/4645_2.png) [@Aelthwyn](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Aelthwyn)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 8:34am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/10 "2017-05-15T08:34:57Z")
This week is even more strange. The two guilds that have been moved down from bracket 1 to bracket 2 were #5 and #6 at the end of last week. It would be really nice to have some explanations on the criteria. ---
**Author:** ![Darkness](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/darkness/32/2712_2.png) [@Darkness](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Darkness)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 8:53am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/11 "2017-05-15T08:53:13Z")
> [@Aelthwyn](#): > > This week is even more strange. The two guilds that have been moved down from bracket 1 to bracket 2 were #5 and #6 at the end of last week. > > It would be really nice to have some explanations on the criteria. Indeed. This is getting ridiculous! Last week ago the number 7, 8 and 9 finishers in bracket 1 were demoted to bracket 2 while the number 10 finisher (Match Masters) stayed in bracket 1. And today the number 5 and 6 finishers were just demoted to bracket 2, while Match Masters finished number 10 again and they stayed in bracket 1. I have nothing against Match Masters but this is just plain crazy! How can a guild that finishes last in bracket 1 two weeks in a row stay in bracket 1 while number 9, 8 and 7 were demoted last week and number 5 and 6 were demoted today? Or is the number 4 finisher going to be demoted next week? 🙄 @Sirrian, @Nimhain, @Saltypatra: Some explanation is absolutely essential here. Currently the relegations from seem to be completely arbitrary, and considering this is supposed to be a competition that can’t be considered a good thing! ---
**Author:** ![Aelthwyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/aelthwyn/32/4645_2.png) [@Aelthwyn](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Aelthwyn)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 8:55am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/12 "2017-05-15T08:55:36Z")
It seems to rely on the trophies, but a clear explanation would be most welcome! ---
**Author:** ![Draprion](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/draprion/32/8238_2.png) [@Draprion](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Draprion)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 8:58am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/13 "2017-05-15T08:58:53Z")
The mechanics are very odd indeed and doesn’t seem particularly fair. Unless it’s RNG again and if you’re top then 5% chance you drop a bracket but if you’re bottom it’s 50% chance? ---
**Author:** ![psydotogist](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/psydotogist/32/12747_2.png) [@psydotogist](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/psydotogist)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 9:36am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/14 "2017-05-15T09:36:22Z")
Maybe winning the daily battles vs another guild also included for the bracket movement. Maybe the guild end up with higher points vs one guild. But on that day, few of the members didn’t do their daily battles and actually lost. Fair point for me if it’s included because of this XD ---
**Author:** ![Annaerith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/annaerith/32/13840_2.png) [@Annaerith](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Annaerith)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 10:44am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/15 "2017-05-15T10:44:14Z")
> [@psydotogist](#): > > Maybe winning the daily battles vs another guild also included for the bracket movement. > Maybe the guild end up with higher points vs one guild. But on that day, few of the members didn’t do their daily battles and actually lost. yes, maybe but we absolutely deserve to know **conditions to win** in this competition @Saltypatra ---
**Author:** ![DonBoba](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/donboba/32/25457_2.png) [@DonBoba](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/DonBoba)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 10:46am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/16 "2017-05-15T10:46:51Z")
What if it consideris points earned during last week + total guild trophies? ---
**Author:** ![Annaerith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/annaerith/32/13840_2.png) [@Annaerith](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Annaerith)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 10:52am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/17 "2017-05-15T10:52:55Z")
that would be fair only if guild trophies were reseted systematically 😒 ---
**Author:** ![DonBoba](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/donboba/32/25457_2.png) [@DonBoba](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/DonBoba)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 11:04am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/18 "2017-05-15T11:04:24Z")
Not saying its fair, just speculating 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jainus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jainus/32/34949_2.png) [@Jainus](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Jainus)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 12:47pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/19 "2017-05-15T12:47:34Z")
> [@DonBoba](#): > > What if it consideris points earned during last week + total guild trophies? That’s starting to feel likely… Like other MatchMasters’ members I am also puzzled… ---
**Author:** ![yonizaf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/yonizaf/32/1435_2.png) [@yonizaf](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/yonizaf)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 2:54pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815/20 "2017-05-15T14:54:09Z")
> [@DonBoba](#): > > What if it consideris points earned during last week + total guild trophies? Let’s test that theory… Unrepentant finished #5 in bracket 1, with a total score of 837,598, total trophies 697,458 Tyrant finished #8 in bracket 1, with a total score of 793,918 points, total trophies 539,155 Unrepentant wins on both GW points and total trophies, yet they got demoted, and Tyrant stayed. [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/strange-guild-wars-bracket-movement/23815.md?page=2)