# So how is everyone experiencing the console cascades? **URL:** \ **Category:** Gameplay Chat (PC/Mobile)\ **Created:** [June 21, 2017, 7:21pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097 "2017-06-21T19:21:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Showing post:** 57
**Author:** ![Mithran](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mithran/32/18064_2.png) [@Mithran](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mithran)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 10:11pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/57 "2017-06-22T22:11:46Z")
> [@Dan\_ozzzy189](#): > > so I have no idea why you’d think a pretty much universally lauded team ‘sucks’. I was referring to the team hidden within the “show details” tag (click the arrow) in my post. Though you probably shouldn’t have taken that loop team versus mab, since it stops functioning well if they get basically any match 4. > [@beanie42](#): > > However, the Sirrian post @Mithran links to is more related to the AI I linked the post for this bit, specifically, which refers to the reliability of being able to loop over, and over and over with just spawners: > [@How often are YOU running into the "super lucky" opponents?](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/how-often-are-you-running-into-the-super-lucky-opponents/20082/87): > > In no version of the game is there any code that is able to affect the “luck” or “starting board” or anything really, to advantage the AI Player. Except for ONE THING… which I will mention here just for completeness… if ANY team (AI or Human) gets too many turns in a row (more than 5 turns, using a looping team) we decrease the chance of them getting an extra turn to keep the loop going. And in a later post, this: > [@How often are YOU running into the "super lucky" opponents?](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/how-often-are-you-running-into-the-super-lucky-opponents/20082/108): > > And this has never been a secret - we announced it was in the code about 18 months ago when we added the feature (old forums unfortunately, so I can’t bring up a link here). > Here is how it works… > > 1. If you’ve managed to generate 5 extra-turns WITH GEM-CREATION FROM SPELLS, without the enemy taking a turn, then it triggers the combo breaker. > 2. Next time you cast a spell (and the enemy has still not taken a turn) there is a 20% chance for it to avoid generating the gems into a position that makes a 4-5 match directly > 3. If you managed to get another extra turn, then the following turn it is 60%, then 40%, etc… > > If you’re using a Guardian Team to perform long combos, I really think the double-colored gem creation will likely have sabotaged your turn before this combo-breaker ever kicks in most of the time. Would love to see a video of it reliably looping though, because I’ve never managed to get it work (reliably). > [@Stan](#): > > While @Mithran wasn’t asking for a nerf, I think the balance will need to be examined, since the new normal appears to favour the spawners. I’m saying _before_ we get that far, we need to look at _why_ this is happening, because it wasn’t really a problem before. The code that makes spawners miss more often after five extra turns, for one, appears to be not functioning _at all_. I’m starting to wonder if “five” really meant “zero” in the previous Adobe Air code. Simply changing the amount of gems created also changes the amount of _mana_ they generate along with how often they get an extra turn, and with this engine, I think we are going to be hard pressed to find a sweet spot. > [@beanie42](#): > > Because the Unity code doesn’t overwrite the same colour the way it did in the previous (or current mobile) code, a lot more gems are converted. The thing is, _single_ color spawners seem way more reliable as well. This may have something to do with the claims of “streakier” RNG on console. Things like Kraken even seem to cluster up way more. Queen Aurora, which I had tested for a while prepatch as decidedly mediocre because of her fairly big miss rate is now able to self loop 2 or 3 times for me before getting a board rich enough in the color I want to fill the entire team in one big blob. I’m not seeing the amount of critical fail misses that I have before… the games I’ve lost are 99% to taking stupid teams loop teams that shouldn’t work at _all_ and failing to charge them or trying to force my way through through freeze - and if I get that first cast before they freeze me, I win anyways. Basically, its like I’m playing a completely different game. I’m perfectly fine with converter looping (I highly prefer partial fixed loops like Alch/Terrax, Hellcat/Sekhma) because you have to examine the board, get alignment, and occasionally look a couple turns ahead to make sure you won’t put yourself in a bad position and if you do happen to screw up and paint yourself into a corner with a checkerboard pattern you don’t have converters for you have to work to dig your way out of it. Spawn looping has none of that, you fill one troop, cast without priming and hope for your extra turn (fairly high incidence at that), then just spam spells without having to think until one side disappears. Mab has potential to stop it, of course, and we will likely be seeing more of her… but the team in question also functions off spawn loop mechanics. I know we still don’t have the AI patch and the AI patch will make players lose more, but it will do so by making _this_ type of thing easier for the AI to do. Having a higher loss rate due to having more unwinnable situations doesn’t necessarily confer “challenge” in my book, in order to have real “challenge” in this type of game you need to have the ability to make a number of consecutive good decisions/less bad ones in any given situation in order to have a favorable outcome and/or make the “good decision” less obvious. Loop teams that use a fixed color converter instead of two universal ones, for example, are more “challenging” to use in that regard, converter + remover chains are another. You can keep these going, but you have to examine each situation separately and make good decisions - a bad decision can easily cost you the game because you feed a ton of mana, or back you into a corner and cause you to waste several turns. Starting Board does not favor you \> you get looped to death by gem spawners occasionally is not really additional “challenge” because you are largely removing player decision making from the table. I’d much rather we keep player decision making at the _center_ of gameplay. --- _[View the full topic](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097)._