# So how is everyone experiencing the console cascades? **URL:** \ **Category:** Gameplay Chat (PC/Mobile)\ **Created:** [June 21, 2017, 7:21pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097 "2017-06-21T19:21:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Rasper](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/rasper/32/2363_2.png) [@Rasper](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rasper)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 10:25pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/321 "2017-06-30T22:25:02Z")
> [@Stan](#): > > If the fix was one-sided (that is, it prevents any extra turns for the player but allows it for the AI) then by all means, get that fixed as soon as possible. The game should ultimately be fair. I’d make one small change, “The game should ultimately be **fun**.” If the fix were one-sided in the other direction, giving the human player random but non-replacing spawns while applying the “thou shalt not get a 3rd turn” logic to AI random spawns, it would not be “fair” in the strictest sense, but would still be fun. Players would be able to build more varied teams including the spawners, but wouldn’t get locked into a death spiral by the AI. ---
**Author:** ![Rickygervais](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@Rickygervais](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rickygervais)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/322 "2017-06-30T22:26:55Z")
They said they will fix it so i don’t know why you guys keep crying ---
**Author:** ![Drathas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/drathas/32/7344_2.png) [@Drathas](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Drathas)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 10:29pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/323 "2017-06-30T22:29:03Z")
So it seems ok for players to lock the AI into a Death Spiral then? All this would do is promote the frozen defence meta, and spawners wouldn’t be used at all. So back to exploders it is. What ever players get the AI needs too, otherwise it cheapens the experience. ---
**Author:** ![Rasper](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/rasper/32/2363_2.png) [@Rasper](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rasper)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 10:34pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/324 "2017-06-30T22:34:20Z")
> [@Drathas](#): > > So it seems ok for players to lock the AI into a Death Spiral then? Yes. Yes it is. The player is the one that pays the bills, drives the game, celebrates victories, curses losses. The AI … doesn’t care. I can cycle back and forth between Alchemist and Hellcat for 15 minutes while a Kraken slowly eats the team away if I find that fun (but I don’t), and the AI would dutifully sit there waiting for its turn. But if the AI decided to go on a 15 min binge I’d be fed up and retreat/log out. That is the difference. The someone wants to use a freeze team defense to defeat a spawner offense, then it is up to me to use a different deck. Same way if someone has a Gorgotha up front and a Sylvanamoria I shouldn’t go in with a skull spam team. ---
**Author:** ![Rickygervais](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@Rickygervais](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rickygervais)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 10:40pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/326 "2017-06-30T22:40:18Z")
I don’t say your setting is ok, and i don’t say our setting is ok. Im just saying they need to find a middle between both version. Cause clearly both version suck ---
**Author:** ![Stan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/stan/32/29888_2.png) [@Stan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Stan)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 10:40pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/327 "2017-06-30T22:40:36Z")
> [@Rasper](#): > > Players would be able to build more varied teams including the spawners, but wouldn’t get locked into a death spiral by the AI. Sure, I’m fine with anything between fair for both sides to some light cheating in the player’s favor. We already have the ability to scout and first turn, so I don’t particularly think we need any further advantages. ---
**Author:** ![Taisiakat](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/taisiakat/32/75810_2.png) [@Taisiakat](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Taisiakat)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 11:40pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/328 "2017-06-30T23:40:14Z")
My only take on it now, is the AI versions of Kerb/Spider/Forest/Kerb or Kerb/Spider/Forest/Kraken seems to be able to now maintain the board with more cascades, 4 matches extra turns which allows more spider/forest/kraken domination. At one point the board was almost all green and skulls, something I have never seen before and it happened in three GW games (AI of course) Might want to get out my combo and do some stats in explore mode to see what the fall rate is. ---
**Author:** ![Arturo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c2a13f/32.png) [@Arturo](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Arturo)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 12:10am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/329 "2017-07-01T00:10:00Z")
[quote=“Rickygervais, post:322, topic:26097, full:true”] They said they will fix it so i don’t know why you guys keep crying [/quote] When and where? link? > [@Strat](#): > > I don’t want to go back and forth with you but your coming at this topic with absolutely zero experience of late game refined looping teams. Justice for example: as soon as it gets its Mana 95% of the games are over. You loose. Its almost every team in PvP now, especially in Guild Wars. there is one of 2 points I think you are trying to make here. One, that a looping meta will only consist of justice teams. On this I highly doubt. if EVERY gem spawner was just as likely to make turns and loops as every other gem spawner, then there would be a much more diverse pool of troops to choose from, all equally as good as the next. That would lead to probably the most diverse meta this game has ever seen. The other point I see that you might be trying to make here is that a looping meta is too fast? That knowing after a turn or two whether you and your loop will start before your opponents? Again this would be a good thing. the sooner in the battle that you can predict the outcome, the sooner you can make the decision to retreat. Get in, get out, get your rewards, and get your guild’s req’s in less time and get on with the other things in life you like doing. ---
**Author:** ![Strat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Strat](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Strat)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 1:18am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/330 "2017-07-01T01:18:31Z")
Interesting. Your ‘points’ to me and to others in this thread have a similar unnecessary verboseness combined with a lack of reading comprehension that someone else on this forum recently exhibited. Although they might have violated the Guidelines (for something else), either way I don’t really care. I made neither of the 2 points you concocted, that only Justice is exclusively looping and the “meta too fast”. I wish you well with your “retreat strategy” in Guild Wars and when joining a Guild, be sure to tell them your plan for handling difficult teams. Finally, if you would like to contribute constructively to this topic I strongly encourage you re-read the posts by Mithran, they are outstanding. ---
**Author:** ![Rickygervais](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@Rickygervais](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rickygervais)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 1:33am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/331 "2017-07-01T01:33:12Z")
> [@Alpheon](#): > > The behaviour @Mithran documented was a bug in our gem spam adjustments. Console hasn’t been affected by the changes at all to it yet, so it will still create 15 new gems randomly on the board, and not overwrite its own colour. > > We’ll take the feedback from people and balance the adjustment further if need be there it is ---
**Author:** ![happy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f05b48/32.png) [@happy](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/happy)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 4:56am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/332 "2017-07-01T04:56:34Z")
Congratulations on your patience people - justice loop is a boor. But so is Mabs extra move which assists the cycling with mercy and valkyrie on their own. Had a game with only val and mab and 12 cycles later quess what? Mabs free hit and move makes the cycle possible. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Unforgiven](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/the_unforgiven/32/24199_2.png) [@The\_Unforgiven](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/The_Unforgiven)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 11:32am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/333 "2017-07-01T11:32:46Z")
The game is in quite a mess with this and other issues. As a result of these problems I find it difficult to believe the number of players on the PvP leaderboard, is it possible to remove the bloated players? As @Rasper said, it should ultimately be fun. These AI issues, and Guild Wars, are definitely not. ---
**Author:** ![Drathas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/drathas/32/7344_2.png) [@Drathas](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Drathas)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 11:50am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/334 "2017-07-01T11:50:48Z")
Yeah and the player also chooses a defence team to fight against other players. I want my defence teams to have a chance at defeating the opponent, I like attempting to build defence teams as well as invading teams. Your suggestion of gimping the AI will diminish a portion of the fun of team building, and make defences even more meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![MakoSipper](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/makosipper/32/1933_2.png) [@MakoSipper](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/MakoSipper)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 3:07pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/335 "2017-07-01T15:07:03Z")
I’ve been away from forums for a while, focused on tons of work and saving my free time to actually play. So reading all this was big news to me. I had a very bad week in the game. It felt like I had terrible luck playing GoW… either that, or, more likely, I wasn’t being able to play as skillfully as before. Bottomline is: it wasn’t fun. I was wondering: > Why am I losing so much where I wasn’t [note: my level is usually much higher than GW opponents because I’m not in a top guild]? Maybe I’ve lost interest and I’m not playing with the same attention from before? Because there’s no way my luck is THAT bad… But the opponents seem stronger. How does that Famine fills up its mana every other turn? How are they taking so many turns in a row? Well, I’m not really paying attention to cascades with 4x speed, so I don’t know. > Someone mentioned there was a bug with difficulty, but I haven’t changed difficulty in ages… Yeah, it’s all still “Normal”. It’s probably me. Man, I suck at this game. Or maybe that’s it, I just don’t care enough anymore to play well…? I think I’ll stop playing GW. It’s not a requirement anyway… Heck, I might as well quit GoW altogether. It has to be fun, and it’s not. Maybe wait a week? Hope we drop about 10 brackets in GW and see if it gets better? > Hmm, I don’t know. Let me check the forums. Maybe someone else is feeling the same way? Maybe I’ll draft a goodbye thread, too? … Huh? What’s /this/ thread about? … Then I spent a long time reading this and other threads. Honestly, I don’t understand half of the explanations, but I don’t care about the reasons, numbers, or statistics. What I do care about is that, for me, the fun factor just plummeted. And it seems I’m not the only one… ---
**Author:** ![Rickygervais](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@Rickygervais](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rickygervais)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/336 "2017-07-01T15:11:07Z")
No worry @MakoSipper they are trying to fine tune the gems creator, it will probably take a couple try before they find the good adjustment between never get extra turn and always get one ---
**Author:** ![Rasper](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/rasper/32/2363_2.png) [@Rasper](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rasper)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 3:22pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/337 "2017-07-01T15:22:22Z")
The other big issue when you start adding ‘constraints’ to randomness, even in limited cases, is that it changes the players views on fair play. Last week if the AI got 3 match-4s in a cascade you would just chalk it up to random is random. This week instead it makes you wonder “was that random, or is there another tweak?”. And it doesn’t matter how much or how stridently people say it is just random, the doubt is there reinforced by the notion that not all random IS random, since they’ve already tweaked it in one way. It doesn’t take long to go from a small doubt to “why bother playing when it comes down to the AI deciding if I win or lose?” ---
**Author:** ![Mgla](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mgla/32/18380_2.png) [@Mgla](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mgla)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/338 "2017-07-01T15:46:49Z")
there’s no doubt. This is a casino game. The devs are just transitioning to full “The House Always Wins”. It’s also amusing to me that the valiant defenders are going extinct around here. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Unforgiven](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/the_unforgiven/32/24199_2.png) [@The\_Unforgiven](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/The_Unforgiven)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 4:48pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/339 "2017-07-01T16:48:01Z")
I really wish you PC folk had the full console experience - purely to watch the feedback and see the devs finally do something about it. Why on earth did they ever start giving you our AI, instead of giving console players yours. Daft. ---
**Author:** ![beanie42](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/beanie42/32/19802_2.png) [@beanie42](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/beanie42)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/340 "2017-07-01T20:06:37Z")
The attempt to fix PC seems to have caused mobile to now loop way more than before. Just saw the normal console Justice/Mab infinite loop on mobile a number of times. Our only advantage is the AI gets distracted by skulls, not that it changes the monotony. Hopefully a more permanent fix that works on both platforms is found soon. ---
**Author:** ![Rasper](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/rasper/32/2363_2.png) [@Rasper](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rasper)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 9:56pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/341 "2017-07-01T21:56:47Z")
> [@Rasper](#): > > The other big issue when you start adding ‘constraints’ to randomness, even in limited cases, is that it changes the players views on fair play. Last week if the AI got 3 match-4s in a cascade you would just chalk it up to random is random. This week instead it makes you wonder “was that random, or is there another tweak?”. And it doesn’t matter how much or how stridently people say it is just random, the doubt is there reinforced by the notion that not all random IS random, since they’ve already tweaked it in one way. > > It doesn’t take long to go from a small doubt to “why bother playing when it comes down to the AI deciding if I win or lose?” Exhibit A - [The A.I hates me especally in GW since the update](http://community.gemsofwar.com/t/the-a-i-hates-me-especally-in-gw-since-the-update/26769) Exhibit B - [3.0.5 Known Issues (PC/Mobile) - #411 by Versheenah](http://community.gemsofwar.com/t/3-0-5-known-issues-pc-mobile/25900/411) [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097.md?page=16) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097.md?page=18)