# So how is everyone experiencing the console cascades? **URL:** \ **Category:** Gameplay Chat (General)\ **Created:** [June 21, 2017, 7:21pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097 "2017-06-21T19:21:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Mithran](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mithran/32/18064_2.png) [@Mithran](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mithran)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 4:07am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/181 "2017-06-29T04:07:04Z")
Also, I apologize for ruining everyones fun, but the auto clumping was clearly broken and needed to be fixed. Imagine the litany of complaints when the AI started to be able to do this to the _player_ regularly, and where the game heads when it was figured out that you could just do this and it would work 99% of the time. Spawns still don’t feel correct here, and I think the spawn streak adjustment code needs to be turned off _completely_ if it hasnt already. However, having a huge amount of troops be basically trash (and subject to possible adjustments later, even if ‘later’ is _way_ down the line or possibly never) is better than having a mechanic being so unbelievably broken that you don’t even have to look at the board. One week of this with various spawn teams over about 600 games and I could already feel my level of engagement with the game plummeting. And now, post fix, its _already_ hard to go back to teams where I actually have to think a bit. And its been a _week_. If this had gone on for too long, it would have basically _become_ the game to the point where it would not be fixable without causing people to quit because they had become so accustomed to playing a certain way, and not fixing it would have a large group of players quitting because they simply can’t engage anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Arturo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c2a13f/32.png) [@Arturo](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Arturo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 4:36am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/182 "2017-06-29T04:36:58Z")
> [@Mithran](#): > > a mechanic being so unbelievably broken that you don’t even have to look at the board. How was spawned gems clumping so much more unbelievably broken than gorgotha / TDS explosions where you don’t have to even look at the board? If anything, it made dozens of of other teams fun and viable at the same level as the explosion no brain teams. > [@Mithran](#): > > One week of this with various spawn teams over about 600 games and I could already feel my level of engagement with the game plummeting. I’m sorry you felt this way. For me, trying out all these previously useless troops and finding other fun new ways to play with them was more engaging. I spent more time trying different troops in the last week than I have in the last month. In fact, I just cleared out all my old 3.0 teams to make room for new stuff this afternoon. > [@Mithran](#): > > Imagine the litany of complaints when the AI started to be able to do this to the player regularly The complaints are there already. People were complaining about the orcs since Monday afternoon. Besides that, having gem spawners that would work would have created a much more diverse meta, as there are dozens of these troops available to use in dozens of different combinations. Sure a few of the better combos would have eventually filtered through to be more prevalent, but there would still be several different teams, and lack of variety is THE biggest complaint around here. Additionally, its not like there aren’t counters already available in the game to slow or stop the AI from doing it to a player. ---
**Author:** ![trickycdr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@trickycdr](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/trickycdr)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 4:49am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/183 "2017-06-29T04:49:25Z")
I am seeing the following post “fix”… 1. Now when I launch the game, I get the splash screen, see the Gems of War first screen, then the game closes and relaunches. Works after that. 2. Gar-Nok spammed and wtih 24 brown gems on the board somehow did not get a match 4, first time I have seen that this week. Mostly 20+ move turns for the Orcs. 3. Early to be sure, but I am seeing excessive match 4’s falling from above and then setting up skulls…5+ moves due to “lucky” drops, for 5 turns in a row. 4. My defense team still randomly changes to something else multiple times a day, not even editing teams in PVP… Fun? ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 5:02am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/184 "2017-06-29T05:02:10Z")
> [@Arturo](#): > > How was spawned gems clumping so much more unbelievably broken than gorgotha / TDS explosions Presumably because the exploders only very rarely give extra turns. ---
**Author:** ![Rickygervais](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@Rickygervais](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rickygervais)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 5:06am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/185 "2017-06-29T05:06:09Z")
> [@Lyya](#): > > Presumably because the exploders only very rarely give extra turns. On console it happen often, this is the reason why gorgo dragon soul famine are so hard to beat. Most of time you are ready to cast but gorgo or dragon soul refill famine and then get lucky extra turn just to make sure you don’t have the time to empty your troop ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 5:08am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/186 "2017-06-29T05:08:09Z")
I see. Doesn’t Console also have a bug wherein generators generate 30% too much mana? That would make Gorgotha considerably more formidable. ---
**Author:** ![Arturo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c2a13f/32.png) [@Arturo](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Arturo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 5:10am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/187 "2017-06-29T05:10:06Z")
And targeted converters and static converters (banshee’s blue to red for example) give extra turns 100% of the time. So why is a random converter that can do it too unbelievably broken in comparison? ---
**Author:** ![Stan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/stan/32/29888_2.png) [@Stan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Stan)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 5:11am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/188 "2017-06-29T05:11:12Z")
Not anymore. That was fixed on the last update. ---
**Author:** ![Rickygervais](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@Rickygervais](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rickygervais)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 5:12am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/189 "2017-06-29T05:12:51Z")
Sniped by @Stan 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 5:13am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/190 "2017-06-29T05:13:09Z")
Because (a) they only give you an extra turn if you cast them at the right time, which requires some planning and foresight; and (b) the AI is terrible at using them, so players are never in serious danger of an infinite conversion chain. ---
**Author:** ![death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@death](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/death)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 5:13am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/191 "2017-06-29T05:13:28Z")
Yes they use to be a little more reliable at 100% but even now at 70% I get an extra turn after exploding quite often on console. My experience is opposite on PC to console even with consoles latest update to exploders. ---
**Author:** ![Rickygervais](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@Rickygervais](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rickygervais)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 5:14am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/192 "2017-06-29T05:14:18Z")
@death yeah same here i didin’t notice a difference ---
**Author:** ![Ozball](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/ozball/32/36110_2.png) [@Ozball](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Ozball)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 5:22am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/193 "2017-06-29T05:22:57Z")
How do storms and exploders work on console? I was getting about a 50% chance of extra turn on PC before Unity when there was a storm up and I used Gorgotha (Haven’t tested extensively on Unity, but it seems similar), I’m curious as to how they interact on console. ---
**Author:** ![Arturo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c2a13f/32.png) [@Arturo](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Arturo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 5:23am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/194 "2017-06-29T05:23:35Z")
Right, you aren’t going to cast a convert 8 random gems when there are only 4 on the board to start. (Well, at least if your intent is getting an extra turn an not putting some extra gems on the board for a bigger conversion later.) So random converters take the same planning and foresight as the targeted converters. As to your other point, Player win rates are too high. Having more troops the AI isn’t terrible with is a good thing. There are dozens of random converters making hundreds of possible viable defenses, which addresses one of the most common complaints of not enough variety in pvp defend teams. ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 5:25am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/195 "2017-06-29T05:25:44Z")
> [@Arturo](#): > > Player win rates are too high. Debatable. I don’t have a strong opinion on the matter, but there are many voices here who would disagree with you. ---
**Author:** ![Jainus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jainus/32/34949_2.png) [@Jainus](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Jainus)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 5:28am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/196 "2017-06-29T05:28:36Z")
Whoa. Player win rates are too high? That’s hugely subjective, both in what we see and how we feel about it. I strongly feel win rates need to be very high, for the good of the game’s retention of players. Many people like it as a casual collecting game where time spent translates to more goodies. Losing too many matches (especially in RNG ways that feel ‘unfair’) turns people off and harms the game. My own win rate is super-high btw, before anyone plays the mindless ‘you just need to get better’ line. ---
**Author:** ![Rickygervais](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@Rickygervais](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rickygervais)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 5:37am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/197 "2017-06-29T05:37:51Z")
Just wait when you guys get the smarter AI and your win rate will drop a little bit ---
**Author:** ![Arturo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c2a13f/32.png) [@Arturo](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Arturo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 5:39am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/198 "2017-06-29T05:39:31Z")
It is a 2 player game. Win rate should be 50% base. Throw on 10-15% for scouting/countering and another 10-15% for first turn advantage and win rates should be in the 70-80% range, not the 90%+ that it is. If we can’t have an AI that is smart enough bring that gap down to where it should be, then randomness is how it must be done. So I argue, how is a random generator (on cast) any better or worse than random sky gems (on match)? ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 5:40am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/199 "2017-06-29T05:40:28Z")
> [@Rickygervais](#): > > when you guys get the smarter AI I’m not 100% sure we’re gonna get Console AI. There’s been a lot of heated discussion on the topic that I’m sure has been noticed by the dev team. I’d say it’s more likely that we’ll meet somewhere in the middle between PC and Console and it’ll be “the AI” going forward. ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 5:42am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097/200 "2017-06-29T05:42:09Z")
Those are interesting percentages, and I’d be tempted to say you were fashioning them out of whole cloth. As @Jainus said, what constitutes the ideal win rate is highly subjective. and the developers mess with the win rate formula at their peril. [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097.md?page=9) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-is-everyone-experiencing-the-console-cascades/26097.md?page=11)