# So, how can the current meta be topped? **URL:** \ **Category:** Uncategorized\ **Created:** [October 2, 2016, 6:29pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-can-the-current-meta-be-topped/13198 "2016-10-02T18:29:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![grrarg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ed655f/32.png) [@grrarg](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/grrarg)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 6:29pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-can-the-current-meta-be-topped/13198/1 "2016-10-02T18:29:13Z")
Gems of War has a history of power creep and a stupidly broken metagame. Before traits, there were the four dragon teams or Webspinner and other self-feeding loop generators. Then traits brought Trueshot and the rise of the common Centaurs Scouts, Glade Wardens and Skeletons. Next 4x fully traited Dust Devils briefly reigned supreme alongside Great Maw and Mercy. Now it is all about Emperor Khorvash. My question is, how is Sirrian ever going to top him? Throw out your best ideas for the next flavor of the month. ---
**Author:** ![Annaerith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/annaerith/32/13840_2.png) [@Annaerith](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Annaerith)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 6:32pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-can-the-current-meta-be-topped/13198/2 "2016-10-02T18:32:07Z")
multidebuff +board controll \>\> damage scaled with debuffs (partially the guild guardians) and the immunithy to mana drain (i hope) actually the new meta called humility is slowly starting ---
**Author:** ![Kurokazna](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/kurokazna/32/11246_2.png) [@Kurokazna](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Kurokazna)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 6:32pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-can-the-current-meta-be-topped/13198/3 "2016-10-02T18:32:48Z")
By taking away like two magic and raising Khorv’s mana cost to 16. That is how we’re going to defeat him. Even though he is unlikely to be nerfed. If you’re looking to counter him, though, Manticore is a good option. So is Spirit Fox. Or Amira. ---
**Author:** ![Annaerith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/annaerith/32/13840_2.png) [@Annaerith](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Annaerith)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 6:35pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-can-the-current-meta-be-topped/13198/4 "2016-10-02T18:35:35Z")
about nerfing khorvash i would like to see it drain flat amount of mana not WHOLE mana, but yah he is probably not gonna be nerfed or not any soon (untill some mayor rebalance of leonis empire ) thats my guess ---
**Author:** ![killerman3333](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/killerman3333/32/4068_2.png) [@killerman3333](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/killerman3333)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 7:02pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-can-the-current-meta-be-topped/13198/5 "2016-10-02T19:02:56Z")
4x villager in coming, i swear someone is going to make it and if you team is slow, you are going to have a bad time. Some players have only fought one on a team thanks to nim, so you can imagine how hard it was. ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 7:15pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-can-the-current-meta-be-topped/13198/6 "2016-10-02T19:15:28Z")
For what it is worth, the current meta is in a healthier state than I’ve ever seen it before. No single troop is utterly dominant, which translates to a more diverse endgame than ever. Remember True Shot? Maw/Mercy? Mab? Every single team was the same. Sure, Khorvash is common, but so is Famine, and Maw and Mab are both still around. While it could always stand to be better, I don’t feel things are as hyperbolically bad as you make them out to be. ---
**Author:** ![Kurokazna](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/kurokazna/32/11246_2.png) [@Kurokazna](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Kurokazna)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 7:16pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-can-the-current-meta-be-topped/13198/7 "2016-10-02T19:16:36Z")
^ Exactly what Lyya said ---
**Author:** ![Shimrra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/shimrra/32/87_2.png) [@Shimrra](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Shimrra)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 7:47pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-can-the-current-meta-be-topped/13198/8 "2016-10-02T19:47:44Z")
Dragon Soul is already stronger than Khorvash. Its just not _brain-dead, fits any team_ - Khorvash IS. ---
**Author:** ![killerman3333](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/killerman3333/32/4068_2.png) [@killerman3333](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/killerman3333)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 8:15pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-can-the-current-meta-be-topped/13198/9 "2016-10-02T20:15:13Z")
There might be a meta at the top, there is no mistake there, but i am seeing so much more diversity at lower levels than what is reported by the top, except mother trucking goblins. ---
**Author:** ![Annaerith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/annaerith/32/13840_2.png) [@Annaerith](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Annaerith)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 8:24pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-can-the-current-meta-be-topped/13198/10 "2016-10-02T20:24:46Z")
since when ds isnt brain dead o.o i mean u can just spam it with gorgotha and it pretty much is it ---
**Author:** ![Robert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/robert/32/12802_2.png) [@Robert](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Robert)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 8:59pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-can-the-current-meta-be-topped/13198/11 "2016-10-02T20:59:06Z")
A troop that generates glory, and uses blue… ---
**Author:** ![Rasper](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/rasper/32/2363_2.png) [@Rasper](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rasper)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 9:40pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-can-the-current-meta-be-topped/13198/12 "2016-10-02T21:40:15Z")
Decided to see what 10 straight pvp would give me: Kor, Valk, Mercy, Mab Gloom Leaf, Gorgo, hero Creeping Death, Celestasia Fox, Famine, Dragon Soul, Kor Kor, Valk, Bat, Winter Imp Mercy, Mab, Valk, Mab Stone Giant, Kor, Hero creeping death, stone giant Kor, Valk, Deep Borer, Sylvan Dragon Jarl, Valk, Mab, Mercy Kor, Amira, Fox, Manticor Kor, Mercy, Teraxxis, hero black manacles Pretty wide variety. While Korvash appeared in 7 of 10, the teams were rather diverse. For the record, I was 10-0 and the only one that slowed me down was with Sylvan Dragon. ---
**Author:** ![Razzagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/razzagor/32/50037_2.png) [@Razzagor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Razzagor)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 10:02pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-can-the-current-meta-be-topped/13198/13 "2016-10-02T22:02:38Z")
I don’t see Khorvash being OP as some people claim… Some True Damage troops are great to deal with him, Amira being the best of course and good old Crimson Bat still tramples many teams. Stun on 4 or 5 gem is hardly as bad as Frozen or maybe that’s what i think because i run Mass Cleanse in more than one team… That Apothecary lady has some nice tricks under her beard. ---
**Author:** ![DonBoba](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/donboba/32/25457_2.png) [@DonBoba](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/DonBoba)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 10:55pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-can-the-current-meta-be-topped/13198/14 "2016-10-02T22:55:06Z")
Well 4 horseman or at least famine and death beat EK in terms of strength easy. If they are player controlled and team is built around them you won’t have a problem beating any team. Btw everyone forgot about goblins rule meta? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mekkalyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mekkalyn/32/21868_2.png) [@Mekkalyn](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mekkalyn)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 11:02pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-can-the-current-meta-be-topped/13198/15 "2016-10-02T23:02:36Z")
I don’t understand why people claim Emperor is overpowered. He is a strong legendary and particularly nasty on defense, but he is one of the only troops that actually gives you a bit of a challenge. Manticores and famine are the only other troops I can think of that actually can strike fear in you. There are plenty of teams that can easily go against those troops, though. Counters and such. I do wish that mana drains weren’t so prevalent. They are rather annoying, which is probably why people are complaining. Hopefully they just tone down all of the mana drains. Like I don’t think Famine should be a full mana drain. Maybe half of all troops mana drained, but buff the damage to compensate for that nerf (or don’t I’m okay with that too), and do the same for Emperor. That is the only change I’d like to see to nerf the Meta. But I’m not sure how we can top it unless we get rid of mana shield and impervious blocking mana burns… Then Queen Mab will rule again! ---
**Author:** ![Shimrra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/shimrra/32/87_2.png) [@Shimrra](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Shimrra)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 11:14pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-can-the-current-meta-be-topped/13198/16 "2016-10-02T23:14:44Z")
> [@Annaerith](#): > > since when ds isnt brain dead o.o > i mean u can just spam it with gorgotha and it pretty much is it OK Dragon Soul _can_ be spammed fairly easily, but the thing is that its only doing two things combat-wise - filling mana and hitting all enemies. That’s enough to win but its not lethal particularly quickly. Khorvash does _too many_ things and does them fairly well. The stuns, heavy true damage nukes, mana drain, and being tanky with Stoneskin - this adds up faster than Dragon Soul if left alone. ---
**Author:** ![Kurokazna](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/kurokazna/32/11246_2.png) [@Kurokazna](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Kurokazna)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 12:19am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-can-the-current-meta-be-topped/13198/17 "2016-10-03T00:19:37Z")
> [@Mekkalyn](#): > > I don’t understand why people claim Emperor is overpowered Lets compare Khorvash to another troop with a similar mana cost and effect. Moloch, for 14 mana, deals Magic+3 true damage and drains mana, boosting damage dealt by mana drained at a 2:1 ratio. Not only does Khorvash do this twice, at the same ratio, he has four more base magic plus three magic from the Leader trait. That means, in order for Moloch to deal as much damage as Khorvash, he has to drain a total of 14 mana from a troop. Khorvash deals full damage all the time. Did I mention that he does this _twice_? Khorvash is not only a double Moloch with more damage most of the time, he also _stuns_ both enemies. If he were to have a cost proportional to his ability on scale with Moloch, he would cost twenty eight mana plus however much you determine that two stuns are worth. That is what we call mana efficiency. Next, lets look at the mana cost itself. 14. Okay, what does that mean? It means that with +1 to each of his colors on a banner, if you get two surges (3 + 3 from surge + 1 from banner) in a row (~25% chance. Probably higher for most people), he’s full. So, without any 4-5 gem matches made, or other troops creating gems to fill his mana, he only needs two matches to go off. Two gem matches for 3 (base damage) + 9 (base magic at max level) + 3 (Leadership) + 4 (Magic kingdoms at 10) + 2 (Guild) = 21 damage, 25 if you have your kingdoms at five stars, twice, the double mana drain, and the double stun. For the hell of it, lets put him in a team with a troop that has Blessed (Mercy). 27 damage. Double Moloch plus double stun for two gem matches. This is without factoring in the tankiness granted by Stoneskin plus his extremely respectable stats (45 base effective HP(life+armor) compared to Gorgotha’s 49. 51 if you include Leadership) and his third trait, which stuns on 4-5 gem matches. His body is respectable, his traits are very good at WORST, and his ability is worth well over double what another troop does for the same cost. Broken? Matter of opinion. Well above the power curve of the game? Definitely. ---
**Author:** ![ExtraTurn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dbc845/32.png) [@ExtraTurn](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/ExtraTurn)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 12:22am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-can-the-current-meta-be-topped/13198/18 "2016-10-03T00:22:10Z")
I know one thing for certain…the answer is NOT this week’s troops. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mariana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mariana/32/63233_2.png) [@Mariana](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mariana)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 12:32am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-can-the-current-meta-be-topped/13198/19 "2016-10-03T00:32:53Z")
DonBoba, the voice of reason, thank-you ---
**Author:** ![Razzagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/razzagor/32/50037_2.png) [@Razzagor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Razzagor)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 1:10am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-can-the-current-meta-be-topped/13198/20 "2016-10-03T01:10:24Z")
I think, respectfully, that you analysis is awful… You are basing this out using an old troop like Moloch, when we have a new power curve around some troops recently released. I could see him being toned down with the magic bonus in mind, but this would only affect players that are maxing out Magic, hoping for Blessed triggering on Magic and hoping people are maxing one of the worst tasks on the guilds, souls, and assuming mana surges… In this fashion someone could also weave a counter argument listing all the better possible outcomes towards a troop like Amira, for example, and simply testify that the meta is ok because it’s easier to get her than to get Khorvash. So i don’t think this is being very objective being put this way. An almost nearly analysis could be pulled using Crimson Bat that had some rework and can do a really high amount of true damage, gaining health and making a setup for double skull damage on his own. But what i think is being misdirected/misinterpreted by you, again respectfully, is that the old legendaries are not keeping up the pace on the same with the new troops. We had Manticore being more effective than nearly all the cards until it was balanced. Coincidence that it seemed to be much more played after we get a weekly pack with the Arcanes needed to fully trait it? (Winged Bison week) I think not… 🤔 [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-how-can-the-current-meta-be-topped/13198.md?page=2)