# So far so good with the meta in GW
**URL:** https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-far-so-good-with-the-meta-in-gw/32333
**Category:** Gameplay Chat (PC/Mobile)
**Created:** [October 26, 2017, 7:45pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-far-so-good-with-the-meta-in-gw/32333 "2017-10-26T19:45:58Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Whiskeyjack](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Whiskeyjack)
#### Post date: [October 27, 2017, 9:50am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-far-so-good-with-the-meta-in-gw/32333/21 "2017-10-27T09:50:51Z")
I agree. If, say, the kraken and troll team got nerfed to oblivion, it would just go back to psion, Ragnagord, famine, and death/Mab/ketras/another famine/spirit fox.
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### Author:  [@XLS78](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/XLS78)
#### Post date: [October 27, 2017, 10:52am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-far-so-good-with-the-meta-in-gw/32333/22 "2017-10-27T10:52:46Z")
Are those teams annoying? Sure. Do they require good planning and a bit of luck? Yep.
But do they have the ability to loop endlessly? No. Do they absolutely require good luck with drops to beat? Nope.
The frustration factor with TroWisKraMab is that it tips the balance too far away from strategy and towards luck. That’s a lot less fun for most people.
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### Author:  [@Whiskeyjack](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Whiskeyjack)
#### Post date: [October 27, 2017, 11:05am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-far-so-good-with-the-meta-in-gw/32333/23 "2017-10-27T11:05:44Z")
I hear you, but personally I prefer the kraken meta to play against. When it wins, at least it wins quickly! Mana drain, on the other hand, feels like death by a thousand cuts.
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### Author:  [@Delinquent](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Delinquent)
#### Post date: [October 27, 2017, 3:12pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-far-so-good-with-the-meta-in-gw/32333/24 "2017-10-27T15:12:26Z")
Barring some sort of permanent system to discourage using meta teams for defense in PvP, I’d love to see them do a round of nerfs to all the most popular troops in PvP. At the very least, we’d see the exact same meta but it would be less awful. More likely, we’d see something new emerge, which would be a very welcome change.
Yes, there will always be a meta, but not all metas are created equally and there’s a lot to be said for change for the sake of change. It’s very common for games like League of Legends to nerf super popular troops, regardless of their power level, just to mix up the meta. Stale meta = bad.
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### Author:  [@Rickygervais](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rickygervais)
#### Post date: [October 27, 2017, 3:27pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-far-so-good-with-the-meta-in-gw/32333/25 "2017-10-27T15:27:23Z")
> [@XLS78](#):
>
> The frustration factor with TroWisKraMab is that it tips the balance too far away from strategy and towards luck. That’s a lot less fun for most people.
I bet you a pc player, cause in console we been stuck with justice league for a while and the troll team is a joke beside justice league, nothing will be worst then that.
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### Author:  [@XLS78](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/XLS78)
#### Post date: [October 27, 2017, 3:52pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-far-so-good-with-the-meta-in-gw/32333/26 "2017-10-27T15:52:01Z")
Mobile, but close enough. And I’m not opposed to fixing Justice League either. My Frozen change proposal would at least help some there…
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### Author:  [@Rickygervais](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rickygervais)
#### Post date: [October 27, 2017, 4:03pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-far-so-good-with-the-meta-in-gw/32333/27 "2017-10-27T16:03:54Z")
Frozen already been nerf, before if any of your troop was frozen you lost extra turn even if your troop doesn’t have that color
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### Author:  [@Strat](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Strat)
#### Post date: [October 27, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-far-so-good-with-the-meta-in-gw/32333/28 "2017-10-27T16:13:54Z")
> [@Rickygervais](#):
>
> > [@XLS78](#):
> >
> > The frustration factor with TroWisKraMab is that it tips the balance too far away from strategy and towards luck. That’s a lot less fun for most people.
>
> I bet you a pc player, cause in console we been stuck with justice league for a while and the troll team is a joke beside justice league, nothing will be worst then that.
2nd this! Troll/Kraken is like an high schooler playing pro sports. It might surprise you once in 100 plays but compared to 9 months of Justice league, It’s nothing.
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### Author:  [@Courtaud](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Courtaud)
#### Post date: [October 27, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-far-so-good-with-the-meta-in-gw/32333/29 "2017-10-27T16:54:20Z")
I’m afraid that the anti-meta move from the devs is to create anti-everything new troops. Impervious, Stealthy, Submerged and so on, all more or less randomly or automatically triggered. See the new and improved Dwarven, a bunch from Merlantis too. They aren’t food for meta troops but don’t do much else.
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### Author:  [@Sagers](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Sagers)
#### Post date: [October 27, 2017, 6:42pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-far-so-good-with-the-meta-in-gw/32333/30 "2017-10-27T18:42:22Z")
The game recently hit a milestone of 400 troops yet I still see the same troops being used in high level PVP. The meta encourages creation of looping teams which, while fun to pilot, are not fun to play against.
I propose to introduce a feature seen in Magic: The Gathering. Namely, the idea of “standard” vs “legacy”. It wasn’t long ago that we’d have overpowered kingdom weeks. Some of those weeks were less interesting than others but the 20% boosts really incentivized creation of teams from the kingdom-of-the-week. Those weeks prompted me to create multiple themed teams such as Centaurs (Divinion Fields), Orcs (Grosh Nak), and pirates (Blackhawk). When that went away all I see now are permutations of Kraken, Trolls, and Mab.
Can the evolution of this idea be creating a standard block of troops allowable for use in PVP? Currently we have weekly boosts. Can this be extended to a concept of “standard blocks”?
Example: October would be Blackhawk, Pan’s Vale, Drifting Sands, Merlantis, Ghulvania. Only troops from these kingdoms can be used in PVP-Standard…or as the next week (Silverglade) rotates in, Blackhawk rotates out. This would encourage refreshing the meta. Throw in Apocalypse and Guild troops wherever.
All troops could be used in PVP-Legacy.
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### Author:  [@Vangor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Vangor)
#### Post date: [October 27, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-far-so-good-with-the-meta-in-gw/32333/31 "2017-10-27T20:20:47Z")
> [@Delinquent](#):
>
> I’d love to see them do a round of nerfs to all the most popular troops in PvP
Just sayin… This would cause me to quit GoW altogether. Why nerf everything? Especially since kraken and wisp (the main troops complained about) were just nerfed a week or so ago.
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### Author:  [@Stripy](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Stripy)
#### Post date: [October 27, 2017, 11:30pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-far-so-good-with-the-meta-in-gw/32333/32 "2017-10-27T23:30:17Z")
Devs great job with GW defense. Meta is much better. However there might be need to shake up in a month or so. Great job all roundla
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### Author:  [@Courtaud](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Courtaud)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2017, 7:01am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-far-so-good-with-the-meta-in-gw/32333/33 "2017-10-28T07:01:56Z")
> [@Vangor](#):
>
> kraken and wisp (the main troops complained about) were just nerfed a week or so ago.
Nerf is a big word for what happened. Expecially for Wisp.
Take Fizzbang instead: now she was nerfed.
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### Author:  [@Rigel](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rigel)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2017, 7:36am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-far-so-good-with-the-meta-in-gw/32333/34 "2017-10-28T07:36:26Z")
Again, I suggest my [previous proposal](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/proposal-for-a-new-defense-system-against-meta-teams/28879) that there should be 10 separate defense-slots that can only be fill up from a troop-pool with fixed amount of cards:
> [@Proposal for a new defense system against meta-teams](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/proposal-for-a-new-defense-system-against-meta-teams/28879/1):
>
> IMO the root of the meta-misery is in the similarity of defense teams. This can be avoided if the defense teams can be assembled only from a limited set.
>
> I suggest:
>
> - be 10 defense-team slots, separate from the attacking team slots
> - 6 defense-team slots be marked with the 6 mana colors, because the system picks these automatically for the appropriate day of GW to defense
> - the remaining 4 slots will be the PVP defense, from which the RNG choses one, when you’re picked for opponent
> - all the 10 slots must fill up from the same troop-pool, where every card have only 4 copies max (or less), if the player has so much in his possession
> - so, if you make a Kerb-G.Spider-FG-Kerb team, you’ll have only 2 Kerberos for the remaining 9 team-slots, but a Psion-3×Famine team you can build only one times
>
> I think, this system provides opportunity to use meta-teams hereafter, but at the same time forces the players to set up more diverse teams to defend. Furthermore, it solves the problem of daily defense teams of GW, because players do not need to look at and set up daily defensive teams each Monday. And, of course, the random 4 PVP defenses give some diversity, when the system offers for you the same opponent again and again.
Of course, the above system can include the new solution of GW-defense with bonus points, and even the six GW defense team will not take up the available attack-team slots.
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### Author:  [@Vangor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Vangor)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2017, 12:33pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-far-so-good-with-the-meta-in-gw/32333/35 "2017-10-28T12:33:59Z")
Maybe we are talking semantics here but fizzy was trashed not nerfed. She is completely useless now where wisp and kraken can still be used (barely)
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### Author:  [@Grundulum](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Grundulum)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2017, 1:05pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-far-so-good-with-the-meta-in-gw/32333/36 "2017-10-28T13:05:02Z")
I think you two are in total agreement, but chose a different word to express your thoughts.
Edit: while I’m posting, in case any dev reads this. I consider the GW defense change a huuuuuge win. I’m seeing a lot of diversity, even if that means “multiple former meta teams”. This was a solid idea, well executed. Thanks!
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### Author:  [@Anna1](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Anna1)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2017, 2:06pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-far-so-good-with-the-meta-in-gw/32333/37 "2017-10-28T14:06:52Z")
I find it a pity that you have to consider how you can limit all players with restrictions, so they are forced to use different units in the defense in PvP. Where have the days gone when the players used event groups as a defense to facilitate the gathering of eventstokens? What does a player have when he puts these meta units into the defense? Nothing! He even gets less because he gets less revenge.
In the guild wars I can understand it … but in the PVP?
You can wait a long time for the reason of others. That is why I would also like to see a solution for PVP.
The new defense system in the guild war brought me back the fun. It is also exciting to see exactly how successful the respective defense team was.
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### Author:  [@Delinquent](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Delinquent)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2017, 3:43pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-far-so-good-with-the-meta-in-gw/32333/38 "2017-10-28T15:43:02Z")
That just isn’t true. She’s still relatively effective, especially on defense. Goblin teams can still steamroll you with a crazy series of loops. It just isn’t guaranteed now, which is a good thing.
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### Author:  [@Vangor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Vangor)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2017, 3:50pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-far-so-good-with-the-meta-in-gw/32333/39 "2017-10-28T15:50:47Z")
We are just gonna have to agree to disagree on this especially since i feel like you are just trying to bait me into an argument so i get banned again
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### Author:  [@Courtaud](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Courtaud)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-far-so-good-with-the-meta-in-gw/32333/40 "2017-10-28T15:59:39Z")
Goblin teams could steamroll you before Fizzbang even existed and can steamroll you now, with or without her. I agree that Fizzbang was eviscerated, but I think that Wisp’s Nerf was laughable.
And in fact Wisps are still around. A lot. In the same teams as before, no adjustment needed.
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