# Request for Legendary Tier List **URL:** \ **Category:** Gameplay Chat (General)\ **Created:** [March 3, 2019, 5:28am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/request-for-legendary-tier-list/52573 "2019-03-03T05:28:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Mana\_Surgeon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mana_surgeon/32/55678_2.png) [@Mana\_Surgeon](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mana_Surgeon)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 3:45am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/request-for-legendary-tier-list/52573/124 "2020-05-14T03:45:14Z")
I meant “better” in the sense of contributing more to the team than exploding+skull reduction, not having a higher percentage of skull reduction (e.g. Glaycion, various Mythics, maybe a handful of other troops with Stoneskin). Maybe they would make sense, maybe they wouldn’t, hard to say in a vacuum. ---
**Author:** ![Magnusimus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/magnusimus/32/50652_2.png) [@Magnusimus](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Magnusimus)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 3:52am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/request-for-legendary-tier-list/52573/125 "2020-05-14T03:52:06Z")
If he’s just trying to go fast and not die, skull reduction and board explosion for mana generation is all he really needs 🤷‍♂️ ---
**Author:** ![Ronkol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d78d45/32.png) [@Ronkol](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Ronkol)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 6:43pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/request-for-legendary-tier-list/52573/126 "2020-05-15T18:43:41Z")
There’s always personal bias in these things, but looking at: > S-Tier: no change > > A-Tier: Useful support for some of the strongest teams, > > B-Tier: Lesser support troops or strong troops that support a smaller variety of teams, > > C-Tier: Endgame-viable troops that only work on niche teams. This would certainly put Jarl in the A bracket (I find you are severely underestimating the synergy of the giants). I also would argue Hyndia deserves an S tier simply due to her third trait and the very powerful Titan hero class (Mang/MC). Titan cookie cutter: MC+Fire Giant+Jarl+Hyndia can crack most problems. They lack the defensive staying power, but in a few loops Jarl and FG get enough Hyndia boosts to demolish the heavier teams and with Hyndia as a safety valve you simply have a very achievable powerhouse team. I would argue this team is the most obtainable powerhouse team. Yes there are stronger teams, but those have a very different resource curve. ---
**Author:** ![Mana\_Surgeon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mana_surgeon/32/55678_2.png) [@Mana\_Surgeon](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mana_Surgeon)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 10:49pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/request-for-legendary-tier-list/52573/127 "2020-05-15T22:49:27Z")
Thanks for the feedback! I might be underestimating the Giants. But I just found Jarl maddeningly unreliable when using him, and Hyndla’s freeze isn’t as reliable protection against miscast with Orpheus medals in play these days. Maybe I need to rethink when to cast Jarl? You’re right, the team is pretty accessible for a pvp option, but I tend to think of it as a “viable, but inconsistent” option, similarly to a Bone Dragon-based skull team these days. Also, is the Jarl-Fire Giant team still the main one for giants? I thought Sheggra’s Spine teams were getting more popular. (Related question - I thought a yellow weapon like Flammifer or Sky Hero was more common with that team than Mountain Crusher, whose brown would gum up looping with Jarl?) ---
**Author:** ![Ronkol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d78d45/32.png) [@Ronkol](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Ronkol)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2020, 7:15am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/request-for-legendary-tier-list/52573/128 "2020-05-16T07:15:07Z")
The Giant cookie Cutter team is not as reliable as the real top-tier teams, but it is among the most obtainable teams with the power to tackle everything (though again, not as reliable as the real top teams). It’s obtainable in a month or two and it might take a year or so before a "free"player has a Mythical custom team to outperform it. If we look at the S-team options they are strong, but whereas Hyndia can be a cornerstone in a very easily obtainable synergetic team, whereas the others need some heavy hitters (the S list is support heavy). Divine Ishabalaa is fantastic, but the Giant Cookie Cutter outperforms teams with her at heart unless you pair her up with synergetic mythics. So on the one hand she has more room in the true top end teams, on the other hand she can’t do the real heavy lifting on her own. On Flammifier and the Spine; It’s a question of obtainability and resources. The cookie cutter team with MC is pretty much easily available and really cheap on resources. A few hours for the traitstones and a few low level delves for the ingots and you can ram through pretty much everything. it’s hard to beat bang for the buck. If the argument is: But in the long run this team is not so viable and thus not worthy of S-tier I counter that this team will be many players high end team for perhaps a year, so worthy your (low) investment. By classifying Jarl as C you give the impression he’s just not good, while in truth he’s the cornerstone of this really important team (and synergetic with the best beginner class). Hyndia should be S because of her even greater synergy with the Titan class. She makes a mid level hero into a monster who one-shots left and right, just as long as you get a few loops going. It’s hard to find a troop that has that much effect. Lastly a last pitch for the Giants: Whereas many looping teams are slow as they miss a nuke, the giants all have a damage dealing attack, which makes them a lot faster than for example Apothecary/Acolyte teams. So the real value of the giants is not their top end potential, but their usefulness/bang for the buck is something that elevates them over most other legendaries… it’s hard to come up with a just as good setup that works for such a long period. But that’s IMHO… I applaud your hard work 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mana\_Surgeon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mana_surgeon/32/55678_2.png) [@Mana\_Surgeon](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mana_Surgeon)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2020, 3:30am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/request-for-legendary-tier-list/52573/129 "2020-05-20T03:30:21Z")
You raise some good points here. The point about accessibility of the giants team goes back to whether or not this list should be modified based on early-game value or utility. Since we are tying the list to event key expenditure, there is an argument for doing so, but I am opting not to, mainly because don’t think there are really any of the higher-tier troops who aren’t as good in the early game as they are later on. Like your example of Divine Ishbaala, I think she’s just as good or better than the giants in the early game - pairing her with Moon Rabbit and another skull-based troop doesn’t require any Mythics and is a strong and reliable option at all levels. Likewise, centerpiece troops like Yao Guai and Glaycion don’t need any Mythic troops to perform at a high level, so without more specifics, I don’t agree that any of these troops are harder to build around than the Giants (who still require two legendary troops to function, not especially easy to pull unless it’s Stormheim week). I think the problem with Jarl looking maybe worse than he actually is in C-tier may be sorted out when I release an updated list, with a mix of those currently in B and C-tiers. Hyndla does synergize well with Titan class, but giants are no longer the basis of the best teams, either in pvp or in scaling content, and she doesn’t quite bring enough to be used in a mixed team, hence the B-ranking (which is still pretty good!). ---
**Author:** ![Ronkol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d78d45/32.png) [@Ronkol](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Ronkol)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2020, 6:14am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/request-for-legendary-tier-list/52573/130 "2020-05-20T06:14:04Z")
And there’s my personal bias: I’m not agreeing on any of those points^^ Joking aside, I understand your logic (still Giants should be raised one tier) That list and the latest list in itself epitomize the problems with such a list, we try to be arbitrary and logical, but it’s neigh impossible, which leads to amusing shifts of cards up and down the list. ---
**Author:** ![Mana\_Surgeon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mana_surgeon/32/55678_2.png) [@Mana\_Surgeon](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mana_Surgeon)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 7:56am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/request-for-legendary-tier-list/52573/131 "2020-05-23T07:56:36Z")
> [@Ronkol](#): > > Joking aside, I understand your logic (still Giants should be raised one tier) Looking at that suggestion, I just can’t go there for Jarl at the current time. Too often it feels like casting him is a 50-50 on whether or not you get an extra turn, even with a good board. I think his reliability is comparable to (or even less reliable than) Bone Dragon, say, on the team [Xolid mentioned above](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/request-for-legendary-tier-list/52573/115), and therefore they both belong in C-tier. Now Hyndla in A-tier, that’s a bit more arguable. Looking at who I currently have in A-tier: > Holy St. Astra > Keeper of Souls > King Bloodhammer I think these three are clearly better/more useful than Hyndla, as they are viable in scaling content (and non-scaling content). > Sekhma > Sir Quentin Hadley Skull-based dual converters are extremely versatile and strong troops. While I can’t cite specific teams off the top of my head, I feel pretty confident that there are more teams that can be used at a high level using these two than there are for Hyndla > Divinia > Queen Titania These are the closest calls, and involve a bit more speculation. Honestly I’m closer to dropping these two to B on a more conservative list than I am to moving Hyndla up to A. But these are in A because my sense is that they can be used in more teams and/or stronger teams than the Giants team that feature Hyndla. ---
**Author:** ![Ronkol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d78d45/32.png) [@Ronkol](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Ronkol)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2020, 6:39am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/request-for-legendary-tier-list/52573/132 "2020-05-24T06:39:40Z")
I do wonder which teams you have that have Sir Quentin Hadley as center piece that beatsthe snot out of a Hyndia looping team 😃 Using your conditions 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mana\_Surgeon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mana_surgeon/32/55678_2.png) [@Mana\_Surgeon](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mana_Surgeon)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 1:35am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/request-for-legendary-tier-list/52573/133 "2020-05-27T01:35:25Z")
As an A-tier, Sir Quentin isn’t a centerpiece; he’d be in S-tier if he was. Too bad Knight class is terrible and there aren’t really any notable skull-centric Knights, otherwise he could contend for S. Sir Quentin has 50% mana start and generates yellow gems. This means he probably pairs well with dual converters who can use the yellow in their conversion (Glaycion, Alderfather, Nimue in particular). He’s also beast type, meaning he gets free barriers if looped with Forest Guardian as well (not to mention they feed each other’s skull generation) . I think teams built around these kinds of pairings outperform the giants in general (and particularly any Jarl team). ---
**Author:** ![Sytro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sytro](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Sytro)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 9:31am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/request-for-legendary-tier-list/52573/134 "2020-05-27T09:31:57Z")
I personaly use Quentin for offense in yellow day Guild Wars. kind of helps the whole thing loop 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mana\_Surgeon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mana_surgeon/32/55678_2.png) [@Mana\_Surgeon](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mana_Surgeon)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 9:47am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/request-for-legendary-tier-list/52573/135 "2020-09-16T09:47:18Z")
Was meaning to post this after release of Basilisk, but oh well lol. At least I’m dropping it before the next (non-faction) legendary drops. Tiers: S: The centerpieces; you can base a team around these troops through the endgame. A: Support for frequently-used endgame teams. B: Support for viable endgame teams. C: Support for fringe endgame teams; usually less consistent than higher tiers. D: Ok troops whose flaws can be overlooked until the midgame. May see occasional event usage as well. F: Flawed troops that you shouldn’t bother trying to make work. S-Tier: Divine Ishbaala Forest Guardian Glaycion Qilin Tesla Wrath Yao Guai A-Tier: Divinia Holy St. Astra Keeper of Souls King Bloodhammer Nimue Sir Quentin Hadley Sekhma B-Tier: Emperor Khorvash Goblin King Gorgotha Hyndla Frostcrown King Avelorn King Silenus Krampus Krystenax Queen Mab Queen Titania Queen Ysabelle Scylla Spring Imp Spooky Imp Taloca Tinseltail Umberwolf Urskula Willow Winter Imp C-Tier: Basilisk Bone Dragon Borealis Captain Macaw Crimson Bat Emperor Liang Frostfeather Glitterclaw Imp of Love Infernal King Jarl Firemantle King Highforge Lust Magnus Medea Queen Moonclaw Sheggra Starflower The Great Maw Webspinner The Widow Queen D-Tier: Autumnal Imp Behemoth Dracos 1337 Dullahan Gar’Nok Garuda Gloom Leaf Gog and Gud Kerberos King Mikhail Kraken Leviathan Orion Matron Dragotani Sol’Zara Sylvanimora The Dragon Soul Viper F-Tier: Abhorath Artema Bunni’Nog Carnex Celestasia Chief Stronghorn Dark Monolith Gruz the Undefeated Hydra Kruarg the Dread Moloch Psion Queen Grapplepot Saguaro Shadow Dragon Summer Imp The Silent One Venoxia ---
**Author:** ![TheIdleOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@TheIdleOne](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TheIdleOne)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 10:28am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/request-for-legendary-tier-list/52573/136 "2020-09-16T10:28:10Z")
Great! nothing looks too out of place. The only one I’m not really keen on is Sekhma, but not enough for me to really care. I’ve never actually seen anyone volunteer to use Sekhma though. ---
**Author:** ![xolid99](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/xolid99/32/66856_2.png) [@xolid99](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/xolid99)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 11:45am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/request-for-legendary-tier-list/52573/137 "2020-09-16T11:45:14Z")
When Basilisk came along I thought yep, going to be great. After some play with it, changed my mind to the same perspective as a C grade. Too much time waiting to get in range. Then I stumbled onto a use for it… Quite a few things can be done with your team to put opponents in range of Basil without any stun or poison, so there’s no waiting for that brown gem match on your favourite target, or hindering teams trying to get poison available elsewhere, or stuns. It works as a very nice lethal damage x2 with ZG. Silver wiith 3 Nysha ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/8/3/83a28dc237d0e9451837a3b4cf6f4cb681164ada.jpeg) 850 uses apparently, maybe 100 when released, just ran it for about 700 goes and having fun, minimal loss vs everything, no skipping or swapping teams. **Sekhma** used it on one of the recent ToDs or factions that was red/purple or just purple with I think Cunning/Shahbanu/Doomed Ram/Sekhma - sunspear, could convert a lot of yellow back for Shahbanu and the magic got very good boosts. Obliterated everything. It has potential, but yep, using it elsewhere, not tried really. ---
**Author:** ![ChunkyMono](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/chunkymono/32/69308_2.png) [@ChunkyMono](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/ChunkyMono)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 2:11pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/request-for-legendary-tier-list/52573/138 "2020-09-16T14:11:58Z")
Psion as F-tier? Don’t let the 2017 Meta Team hear you say that. The game has passed you by, old friend Psion. I’ve got an alt somewhere that uses Sekhma on Red Day. Or maybe it’s on Purple Day. I’ll figure it out by GW. When it’s all you got, use what you have. Nimue is better on Purple Day. Thanks for the list update. ---
**Author:** ![Joyous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c4cdca/32.png) [@Joyous](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Joyous)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 3:12pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/request-for-legendary-tier-list/52573/139 "2020-09-16T15:12:33Z")
Haha I was really offended when I saw Psion in the F tier. ---
**Author:** ![Mana\_Surgeon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mana_surgeon/32/55678_2.png) [@Mana\_Surgeon](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mana_Surgeon)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2020, 4:37am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/request-for-legendary-tier-list/52573/140 "2020-09-17T04:37:49Z")
> [@TheIdleOne](#): > > Great! nothing looks too out of place. The only one I’m not really keen on is Sekhma, but not enough for me to really care. Thanks! Appreciate the feedback, your input helped me a lot in putting the list together. In addition to what others have said, I’ve put in some matches with Sekhma as well. Like Infernal King, she has the unfortunate distinction of generating a color that she can’t use herself (not necessarily a bad thing, just means she has more setup costs) and does not have access to 50% mana start. However, she can boost her magic damage effectively by herself on a red-centric team, and that magic damage is very helpful on skull-based teams. I have not tried her yet with the troops who would be her most natural partners - Cunning and Umenath - but I imagine there’s some powerful synergy there too. > [@xolid99](#): > > Quite a few things can be done with your team to put opponents in range of Basil without any stun or poison, so there’s no waiting for that brown gem match on your favourite target, or hindering teams trying to get poison available elsewhere, or stuns. It works as a very nice lethal damage x2 with ZG. Cool. I’ve gained increased appreciation for doing big burst damage like what Basilisk can do. Was the 17 mana-cost not too much of a problem? That and the single-targeting were probably my biggest hangups in terms of rating it any higher. ---
**Author:** ![TheIdleOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@TheIdleOne](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TheIdleOne)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2020, 4:58am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/request-for-legendary-tier-list/52573/141 "2020-09-17T04:58:04Z")
> [@Mana\_Surgeon](#): > > Thanks! Appreciate the feedback, your input helped me a lot in putting the list together. Had to think about it, but I think Queen Grapplepot is more of a D Tier than F Tier. Yes, King Gobtruffle completely overshadows Queen Grapplepot, but it doesn’t mean she can’t still do things… Compare her to every other troop in the F Tier. She has damage to all enemies + an extra turn, and a 3rd trait that can buff herself with life as well as any other goblin. Its a decent flat rate, so its more useful early in the game. Its hard to say a troop with an extra turn capability should be bottom tier. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jonathan/32/66724_2.png) [@Jonathan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Jonathan)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2020, 5:12am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/request-for-legendary-tier-list/52573/142 "2020-09-17T05:12:53Z")
A while ago I had the thought that Yao is the only true S-tier, and everyone else can be bumped down a rank 😂 ---
**Author:** ![Mana\_Surgeon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mana_surgeon/32/55678_2.png) [@Mana\_Surgeon](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mana_Surgeon)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2020, 5:13am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/request-for-legendary-tier-list/52573/143 "2020-09-17T05:13:34Z")
That’s a good case to move her up. In a world without Gobtruffle, there wouldn’t be even a question, but is any troop more rendered obsolete by another troop on the list than she is, in view of Gobtruffle? Maybe Chief Stronghorn (compared to Ferocity), but that’s all I could see. [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/request-for-legendary-tier-list/52573.md?page=6) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/request-for-legendary-tier-list/52573.md?page=8)