# \[Reported\] Visk does not do damage to submerged enemies **URL:** \ **Category:** Bug Reports\ **Created:** [December 2, 2023, 12:32pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/reported-visk-does-not-do-damage-to-submerged-enemies/82375 "2023-12-02T12:32:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dust\_Angel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/dust_angel/32/35256_2.png) [@Dust\_Angel](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Dust_Angel)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2023, 12:32pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/reported-visk-does-not-do-damage-to-submerged-enemies/82375/1 "2023-12-02T12:32:50Z")
**Platform, device version and operating system:** Steam **What you were expecting to happen, and what actually happened:** Visk’s spell description says ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/c/3/c31013f0f81e722818e262308458f10365b3a308.jpeg) however, the extra damage part is skipped when yellow enemy is submerged. For example ![visk1](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/8/7/8769c01d69aa96648550768290db05e46eff7c32.jpeg) ![visk2](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/b/e/be5759d7bd9e961c8f80147d9bd584b574a79459.jpeg) here it shows that, after casting Visk on Undine, Waverider and Mervorax have been targeted by extra damage to yellow part of the spell but submerged Mermaid has only been damaged by burn. Submerged protects troops from AOE damage but targeting a specific color enemy should not count as AOE. For example, if we look at Shocktopus (select mana gem and true damage all enemies of selected color): ![shock](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/0/c/0c881d99ada2d5cc5ec13427fbbaa93bab9324f0.jpeg) we can see that both Mevorax and submerged Mermaid have been targeted. The same is true for Rex Ahriman (also select mana gem and deal damage to all enemies of that color) ![ahriman1](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/2/e/2e0899a110058dced0412174b6c0e68b84f2b880.jpeg) ![ahriman2](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/7/4/740fa0347fc010d351f56fe8eefe21bfb1fd260c.jpeg) You can see that Waverider and Mervorax have been damaged and submerged Mermaid’s barrier is gone which means that she was also targeted by Red Ahriman’s spell. **How often does this happen? When did it begin happening?** I only noticed it today in Arena but it probably has been working like this since forever. **Steps to make it happen again** Use Visk with submerged yellow enemies. ---
**Author:** ![Stratelier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/977dab/32.png) [@Stratelier](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Stratelier)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2023, 11:37pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/reported-visk-does-not-do-damage-to-submerged-enemies/82375/2 "2023-12-02T23:37:32Z")
I’ve been waiting for a topic like this! (A few weeks ago I started drafting a topic for it, in fact, but never finished it up for posting) > [@Dust\_Angel](#): > > Submerged protects troops from AOE damage but targeting a specific color enemy should not count as AOE. In my testing: - Spells targeting “all enemies” of a player-selected color get to bypass Submerged; - Spells targeting “all enemies” of a fixed color do not. Examples: - Visk (yellow enemies, Submerged avoids extra damage) - Thaumataur (purple enemies, Submerged avoids damage) Color of player’s choice: - Red Ahriman (bypasses Submerged) - Flame Soul (bypasses Submerged) - Scythie McScytheface (bypasses Submerged) So this appears intentional – but the question is, WHY are the two treated differently? If you face a team with a single shared color, Flame Soul and Red Ahriman (etc) can hit through Submerged where Visk (if yellow) and Thaumataur (if purple) cannot. Why the difference? Argument A - in favor of damaging through Submerged: - If you face a team with no single shared color, then it is impossible to hit “all enemies” with any spell that targets by color, so according to this logic Submerged should be IGNORED by such spells, and Visk/Thaumataur are bugged. Argument B - in favor of Submerged avoiding damage - Submerged protects a troop from AOE damage even if it is the only Troop available to strike - no distinction is made for how many targets the spell would _actually_ strike. By which reasoning, this implies it’s Flame Soul (Red Ahriman, etc) that are bugged, while Visk/Thaumataur are working correctly. However, that second argument is weaker because there’s an easy rebuttal/counter-argument available: - _Because_ Submerged makes no distinction about whether there is one or more targets available (only the “type” of targeting used), a spell that is not guaranteed to strike all targets _outright_ is not necessarily eligible for Submerged to dodge. Of course, it is definitely possible the current behavior is intentional, but I don’t see a reason why the two (player-selected vs. fixed color) should be treated as different cases. Things could get REALLY spicy if we suddenly had a spell damaging enemies of a “most used” (or “least used”) enemy color… Now might also be a good time to question troops like Hex Rat or Leanansidhe, who damage a specific enemy plus “all enemies” above or below them, and whose spells appear to also ignore Submerged. But is this logical? Hex Rat, for example, if you target the first enemy then you are functionally targeting “all enemies” (in which case Submerged should apply?) but the spells damages through Submerged. ---
**Author:** ![Dust\_Angel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/dust_angel/32/35256_2.png) [@Dust\_Angel](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Dust_Angel)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2023, 3:31am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/reported-visk-does-not-do-damage-to-submerged-enemies/82375/3 "2023-12-03T03:31:18Z")
> [@Stratelier](#): > > Of course, it is definitely possible the current behavior is intentional, but I don’t see a reason why the two (player-selected vs. fixed color) should be treated as different cases. Basically, if we were to follow Keep It Simple Stupid! route, there should be just two cases: - damage all enemies (which is countered by submerge) - damage all **insert modifier** enemies (which should not be countered by submerge regardless of preset or player-chosen modifier). ---
**Author:** ![Jerry\_the\_skunk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jerry_the_skunk/32/53897_2.png) [@Jerry\_the\_skunk](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Jerry_the_skunk)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2023, 9:38am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/reported-visk-does-not-do-damage-to-submerged-enemies/82375/4 "2023-12-03T09:38:26Z")
> [@Dust\_Angel](#): > > damage all **insert modifier** enemies Upon reading this expression, does anyone know right away, if “damage all [enemy type, for example demon]” does suffer from this bug? ---
**Author:** ![Dust\_Angel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/dust_angel/32/35256_2.png) [@Dust\_Angel](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Dust_Angel)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2023, 1:54pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/reported-visk-does-not-do-damage-to-submerged-enemies/82375/5 "2023-12-03T13:54:17Z")
Yep, it does. War Cleric on submerged Daemons/Undead - no damage done. ---
**Author:** ![Stratelier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/977dab/32.png) [@Stratelier](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Stratelier)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 1:02am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/reported-visk-does-not-do-damage-to-submerged-enemies/82375/6 "2023-12-04T01:02:30Z")
> [@Dust\_Angel](#): > > War Cleric on submerged Daemons/Undead - no damage done. At least War Cleric is consistent with Visk/Thaumataur… ---
**Author:** ![jdk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jdk/32/58002_2.png) [@jdk](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/jdk)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 9:32pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/reported-visk-does-not-do-damage-to-submerged-enemies/82375/7 "2023-12-04T21:32:16Z")
> [@\[Investigating\] Visk and The Gray King spells don't work as they should against submerge](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/investigating-visk-and-the-gray-king-spells-dont-work-as-they-should-against-submerge/60940): > > Platform, device version and operating system: Xbox One, game up-to-date Screenshot or image: Not needed. What you were expecting to happen, and what actually happened: I found an incosistency between these two spells and the way they interact with submerge. Visk: Deal damage to an enemy. Deal bonus damage to all enemies that use Yellow Mana and Burn them. The Gray King: Destroy all Gems of a chosen Color. All Enemies of that Color take true damage, and are Mana drained, Silenced, an… Been “investigating” for almost 4 years I almost didn’t link it bc changing how TGK functions would be bad ---
**Author:** ![jdk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jdk/32/58002_2.png) [@jdk](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/jdk)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 9:37pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/reported-visk-does-not-do-damage-to-submerged-enemies/82375/8 "2023-12-04T21:37:50Z")
> [@Gray King's Cast isn't considerrd AOE. Why?](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/gray-kings-cast-isnt-considerrd-aoe-why/58409/15): > > When you think about it, very few spells don’t target “all troops”. It’s mostly spells that affect allies that have a condition like “allied Mystics”. It’s only the like “an enemy of that color” offensive spells that have restrictions on what troop they can target. wink Further discussion of some other troops with “all enemies” interactions ---
**Author:** ![Stratelier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/977dab/32.png) [@Stratelier](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Stratelier)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 10:12pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/reported-visk-does-not-do-damage-to-submerged-enemies/82375/9 "2023-12-04T22:12:02Z")
> [@Dust\_Angel](#): > > Basically, if we were to follow Keep It Simple Stupid! route, there should be just two cases: > > - damage all enemies (which is countered by submerge) > - damage all **insert modifier** enemies (which should not be countered by submerge regardless of preset or player-chosen modifier). Sounds good to me. Like how “Stealthy” only protects from _manual_ targeting by spells, and does not protect from spells that may target it by circumstance (e.g. “first/last” or “strongest/weakest”). Besides, the request would be some small buff to Visk, Thaumataur, and War Cleric, in contrast to nerfing Flame Soul, The Grey King, Shocktopus, Red Ahriman, (etc).