# R.I.P. Maw meta. The new meta is Manticore/Khorvash? **URL:** \ **Category:** Gameplay Chat (General)\ **Created:** [August 17, 2016, 6:30am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/r-i-p-maw-meta-the-new-meta-is-manticore-khorvash/11137 "2016-08-17T06:30:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 4:55pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/r-i-p-maw-meta-the-new-meta-is-manticore-khorvash/11137/101 "2016-08-18T16:55:53Z")
I don’t remember any since I started playing. It’s only been balance by subtraction in recent months. ---
**Author:** ![TaliaParks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/taliaparks/32/11738_2.png) [@TaliaParks](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TaliaParks)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 4:57pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/r-i-p-maw-meta-the-new-meta-is-manticore-khorvash/11137/102 "2016-08-18T16:57:49Z")
Zhul’Kari, Ghulvania got rebalances that I can recall. ---
**Author:** ![Ashasekayi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/ashasekayi/32/61090_2.png) [@Ashasekayi](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Ashasekayi)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 4:59pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/r-i-p-maw-meta-the-new-meta-is-manticore-khorvash/11137/103 "2016-08-18T16:59:37Z")
Flesh Golem is a somewhat recent example of a rebalance to make a troop stronger. ---
**Author:** ![Razzagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/razzagor/32/50037_2.png) [@Razzagor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Razzagor)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 5:01pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/r-i-p-maw-meta-the-new-meta-is-manticore-khorvash/11137/104 "2016-08-18T17:01:14Z")
Mist of Scales was also rebalanced. Another thing to ruin the game. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 5:02pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/r-i-p-maw-meta-the-new-meta-is-manticore-khorvash/11137/105 "2016-08-18T17:02:35Z")
> [@TaliaParks](#): > > Zhul’Kari, Ghulvania got rebalances that I can recall. The Zhulkari rebalance that I remember was by subtraction to the goblins/marauders. > [@Ashasekayi](#): > > Flesh Golem is a somewhat recent example of a rebalance to make a troop stronger. OK, there’s one I forgot. > [@Ivar](#): > > Mist of Scales was also rebalanced. Another thing to ruin the game. 😛 Are you going to keep doing this? The discussion moved on a LONG time ago. ---
**Author:** ![TaliaParks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/taliaparks/32/11738_2.png) [@TaliaParks](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TaliaParks)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 5:08pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/r-i-p-maw-meta-the-new-meta-is-manticore-khorvash/11137/106 "2016-08-18T17:08:47Z")
A bunch of Zhul’Kari Troops got Web and Web-related Spells/Traits ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 5:09pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/r-i-p-maw-meta-the-new-meta-is-manticore-khorvash/11137/107 "2016-08-18T17:09:24Z")
Oh yeah! Thanks, that makes me feel better! ---
**Author:** ![Razzagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/razzagor/32/50037_2.png) [@Razzagor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Razzagor)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 5:18pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/r-i-p-maw-meta-the-new-meta-is-manticore-khorvash/11137/108 "2016-08-18T17:18:31Z")
> [@htismaqe](#): > > The Zhulkari rebalance that I remember was by subtraction to the goblins/marauders. Here is what was _ruined_: [Update 2.0.1 Preview](http://community.gemsofwar.com/t/update-2-0-1-preview/9427) > [@htismaqe](#): > > Are you going to keep doing this? The discussion moved on a LONG time ago. Why not? Aren’t we supposed to be totally free despite it being useful or not? But well, at least i found the link for Zulkari changes for you. You are welcome. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 5:22pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/r-i-p-maw-meta-the-new-meta-is-manticore-khorvash/11137/109 "2016-08-18T17:22:30Z")
You’re following me around like a 12-year old troll. I’m quite sure regardless of how anybody here feels about the nerf discussion, they’d find your current behavior childish and unnecessary. I stopped responding to you directly when @Jainus politely asked us to stop. It might be more dignified of you to do the same. ---
**Author:** ![Razzagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/razzagor/32/50037_2.png) [@Razzagor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Razzagor)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 5:35pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/r-i-p-maw-meta-the-new-meta-is-manticore-khorvash/11137/110 "2016-08-18T17:35:12Z")
Nah, just proving that your short insight is simply due to your timely inexperience. You claimed that: > [@htismaqe](#): > > Rebalancing implies that, at some point, underpowered troops are going to be balanced as well. We don’t really see that though. We just see alleged overpowered troops being changed, at least recently. And the truth is as i said before: > [@Ivar](#): > > But well, i have the opinion that a lot of troops need to be changed for the better, and there is clearly room for improvement, but since the time of the developers is restricted (they need to produce new content each week) it is also a challenge for them to balance things, in both ways, at the same rate. Others had to point it out the kingdoms reworked before i could say something, otherwise it would just me “trolling”, because that’s the final answer or internet arguments: “My oponent is a troll”. But it ended in the same way i guess. The developers are probably planning on making more positive adjustement, you’ll see. If the game is not ruined enough for some to play it… ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 5:37pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/r-i-p-maw-meta-the-new-meta-is-manticore-khorvash/11137/111 "2016-08-18T17:37:10Z")
[quote=“Ivar, post:110, topic:11137, full:true”]If the game is not ruined enough for some to play it… [/quote] See this is the part that makes you a troll. NOBODY here said the game was ruined and certainly not ME. In fact, I said the meta now is as good as any time since I started playing. If you want to back up your opinion with facts (like posting the link to the Goblin rebalance) by all means, do it. It’s welcomed. If you want to correct something that I’ve said that’s not correct, again do it. I’ve already humbly admitted that I missed a couple of buffs in responding to other threads. That too is welcomed. The backhanded and completely false comments however are not. ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 5:43pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/r-i-p-maw-meta-the-new-meta-is-manticore-khorvash/11137/112 "2016-08-18T17:43:48Z")
I for one find the new [Dark Maiden](http://ashtender.com/gems/troops/dark-maiden) to be quite a bit more useful than the old one. ---
**Author:** ![Razzagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/razzagor/32/50037_2.png) [@Razzagor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Razzagor)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 5:58pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/r-i-p-maw-meta-the-new-meta-is-manticore-khorvash/11137/113 "2016-08-18T17:58:53Z")
To post all the changes, in the sense of how a troop was and how it is now\*, is a little tricky here at work because i get interrupted a lot, but one thing that i remember that you maybe missed too was the rework on Mist of Scales that then needed a nerf to the Scale Guard because a team with four of it was able to one-shot nearly any troop with it’s spell. It’s the best example that i can remember of when sometimes they (devs) make some little mistakes that ends up making an OP troop. \*Perhaps, if it wouldn’t be of much trouble maybe Lyya could help us? Do you have the old stats/effects of the troops in a log from your databse @Lyya ? ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 6:00pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/r-i-p-maw-meta-the-new-meta-is-manticore-khorvash/11137/114 "2016-08-18T18:00:33Z")
That’s not necessary, I believe you. As I already said, my recollection appears to be somewhat faulty. The only thing I’m asking you to stop is the back-handed comments. I certainly don’t think anything has ruined this game. In fact, I think it’s one of the better games I’ve played in a long time. ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 6:03pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/r-i-p-maw-meta-the-new-meta-is-manticore-khorvash/11137/115 "2016-08-18T18:03:09Z")
Er… I have _some_ of the old World.json files, but many are lost to the sands of time before I decided archiving was a useful thing to do. There’s also no way to look at a specific troop’s history via the website. It’s something I’ve considered adding from time to time, but haven’t gotten around to actually implementing. If I get enough Scooby Snacks I might add it for people who care. ---
**Author:** ![Razzagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/razzagor/32/50037_2.png) [@Razzagor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Razzagor)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 6:20pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/r-i-p-maw-meta-the-new-meta-is-manticore-khorvash/11137/116 "2016-08-18T18:20:59Z")
It’s ok, it would be useful for future discussions i think. ---
**Author:** ![zachraziel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/zachraziel/32/3836_2.png) [@zachraziel](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/zachraziel)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 8:20pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/r-i-p-maw-meta-the-new-meta-is-manticore-khorvash/11137/117 "2016-08-18T20:20:59Z")
Any team can be beaten. Just because one team a player has on defence may require a little more care in the match doesn’t mean that it is overpowered. Every forum post requesting a nerf has been eventually taken up by the development team, which I actually find quite frustrating. The only true benefit I saw out of these changes to troops came out as a new trait to others, Invulnerable, not the tweaking of the said over-powered troop. I actually enjoyed using Maw’s hunger, it was quite fun. I never used him on defence however. Now those rolls have been reversed and he’s become unused in attack since. I freak’n used to LOVE how a boost to magic used to increase all numbers for troops like Celestasia, Web Spinner, Venoxia, etc. Adding Brian the Lucky to a team and keeping the match running for as long as possible used to keep me grinning from ear-to-ear. ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/b/b527f5433c8279f34da05e47154dcdefbe7e86ce.png) ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/5/5bbffed9b59a8b7d6c723b9e00e79179d5980b6e.png) I was a little saddened to see that one go 😈 It has been hard for me to keep up to date with changes to ensure I find the game fresh and entertaining, keeping certain troops favourites. To have those changed any time soon, I think like another friend of mine I will be saying bye to GoW. Hopefully, right now there isnt a developer seeing this request, rolling his/her eyes, thinking, ‘Would they like us to warm up some milk?’ ---
**Author:** ![Razzagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/razzagor/32/50037_2.png) [@Razzagor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Razzagor)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 9:43pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/r-i-p-maw-meta-the-new-meta-is-manticore-khorvash/11137/118 "2016-08-18T21:43:21Z")
About Khorvash i was just doing some regular battles for souls using him and Valkyrie (inovative i know) and faced a team with Bunny’nog… Such was my surprise after a skull drop when the “diabolic bunny of destruction” reduced my Khorvash to one of hp. That was priceless, such a good laugh because i forgot about the Bunny’s third trait… 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 11:33pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/r-i-p-maw-meta-the-new-meta-is-manticore-khorvash/11137/119 "2016-08-18T23:33:08Z")
> [@Ivar](#): > > It’s ok, it would be useful for future discussions i think. And done! The scaffolding, at least. I don’t have enough archival data (particularly around strings) to make it generally meaningful until the next weekly adjustment, when one arrives, but there’s at least one set of old data you can look at (though the text strings are wrong). There’s more information in the Gems of War Database thread here: > [@Gems of War Database - updated troops list and much more!](http://community.gemsofwar.com/t/updated-troops-list/6037/235): > > Added history to the Gems of War Database! It’s now possible to go back in time to look up a troop pre-changes to do comparisons (or to do it wholesale over the entire table). The UI affordance is a timer in the corner of the screen, like so: [image] I’ve thrown up the 6/17 World.json file just to use as a test, but please note that I preserved only the world data, not the text from that date, and so the mechanics won’t line up with the troop spell descriptions. Going forward, this won’t be… ---
**Author:** ![Razzagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/razzagor/32/50037_2.png) [@Razzagor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Razzagor)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 11:44pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/r-i-p-maw-meta-the-new-meta-is-manticore-khorvash/11137/120 "2016-08-18T23:44:47Z")
![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/4/44490bc8b19659c6aa571de5fd40c652eb138438.gif) I hope the intensity of this gif is not inappropiate for all viewers. 🙂 [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/r-i-p-maw-meta-the-new-meta-is-manticore-khorvash/11137.md?page=5) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/r-i-p-maw-meta-the-new-meta-is-manticore-khorvash/11137.md?page=7)