# PVP Change Notes July 24th 2024 **URL:** \ **Category:** Official News\ **Created:** [June 24, 2024, 2:24am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/pvp-change-notes-july-24th-2024/84490 "2024-06-24T02:24:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Dwuemka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/dwuemka/32/67058_2.png) [@Dwuemka](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Dwuemka)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 7:57pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/pvp-change-notes-july-24th-2024/84490/104 "2024-06-26T19:57:14Z")
> [@Tresk](#): > > All due respect, this is what I’m asking. How do we go about encouraging people to not use what works best? That is what meta is. What works best. So I’m asking YOU how we incentivize using something else without nerfing the meta? By allowing player-made defences, instead of forcing the “attack team is your defence team” concept. Old PvP was more varied, because people set up many different defences. If I didn’t want to fight goblins / Bee / doomed weapons / Zuul / Stella / whatever I didn’t want to fight - I could pick other options, because they were there. Now the options are much more limited; outside central spire - you barely see anything but the current meta. I can’t blame people for using them, but I just don’t want to fight them over, and over, and over again. And no, changing out one troop isn’t a new team, it’s just a variety of the same team. > [@Tresk](#): > > The great irony is that stella/wand doesn’t even work best against stella wand. But people are gonna people There’s an easy answer to that: changing teams out is exhausting in the current state of PvP - no direct access to player’s team slots coupled with an on-and-off pasting bug & having to re-create teams by hand - results in people just picking the best they have and just roll with it. Re:casual Casual was a great place to just zen out when gemming - no millions of annoying pop-ups (explore, I’m looking at you), relatively easy, you picked a reliable team and off you went to enjoy what match-3 games are about - matching gems and enjoying the wins. I really miss that. ---
**Author:** ![McDoubleDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@McDoubleDad](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/McDoubleDad)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 9:31pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/pvp-change-notes-july-24th-2024/84490/105 "2024-06-26T21:31:59Z")
> [@Dwuemka](#): > > Re:casual > > Casual was a great place to just zen out when gemming - no millions of annoying pop-ups (explore, I’m looking at you), relatively easy, you picked a reliable team and off you went to enjoy what match-3 games are about - matching gems and enjoying the wins. I really miss that. This. By far the change that has been the worst for me is the loss of Casual PvP. ---
**Author:** ![Kezef](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Kezef](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Kezef)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 9:47pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/pvp-change-notes-july-24th-2024/84490/106 "2024-06-26T21:47:30Z")
> [@Sylwani](#): > > The claim that the majority dont have zuul, takshaka, leprechaun, gray king, and wand is absolute hogwash and gaslighting. Leprechaun? Sure, you’re probably correct on that one. The weapon in question? I guess the majority of players probably have that as well, because Nexus certainly comes around often enough for it to be available in the Soulforge on a semi-regular basis. But the three mythics you’ve named? Please, _please_ don’t conflate the community that’s active on these message boards with some notion that they’re a representative cross-section of the entire player base. Because they’re not. And I’d bet you dollars to donuts that a huge percentage of the actual player base are ultra-casuals who don’t play very much at all and have “more hole than cheese” in their collections. What you see on these boards are largely players who are very active, who sink a lot of time and effort (and often money) into the game and complete huge percentages of the content on a regular basis. What you don’t see on these boards are people who play a handful of matches while riding an Uber to their job if they don’t feel like watching TikTok videos and probably accumulate less in a month (or six) than a lot of high-end guilds require of their members in a week. ---
**Author:** ![Zuul-Emo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/67e7ee/32.png) [@Zuul-Emo](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Zuul-Emo)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 10:18pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/pvp-change-notes-july-24th-2024/84490/107 "2024-06-26T22:18:42Z")
> [@Kafka](#): > > I’m following up with the team on which wrong turn the changes took on the way to the live server to get lost in space time 👾 🕵️‍♀️ Thanks for following up on this. Hope we get an update about when the change is actually going to go live. > [@Kafka](#): > > This wasn’t done to Pathfinder Troops as this is a temporary change until a rebalance happens. There is no intention to leave the swap in. As many people have pointed out, there was no reason the pathfinder couldn’t have received a temporary measure while you figured out how to rebalance Journey events. Instead, the nerf was dumped on us, and we’re getting temporary measures in Journey trying to figure out how to make it viable, which is way more frustrating. > [@Kafka](#): > > a permanent solution shouldn’t be to just remove all your agency Totally agree. Shame we’ve had changes that do just that, and haven’t been reverted when it was pointed out. Like, taking away player ability to set defense teams. > [@Kafka](#): > > There is a difference between challenging and punishing. > In a challenging situation you still have the ability to change the outcome through your actions - in this scenario that would be through upgrading your Troops and making better choices when matching Gems etc. > In a punishing situation - the outcome is far less influenced by your actions. Taking this as a definition, and reading into your implication that you want to avoid “punishing situations”, can you explain why Journey is still WAY, WAY over in the Punishing side of the scale you’re using here? Or why the dragon eggs are 100% punishing? and 0% challenging? And we’ve waited 2 years for a fix that is still somewhere on the list but never a priority (according to what’s been stated)? By your definition, this should be a way bigger priority than PvP, which is occasionally Punishing, right? > [@Kafka](#): > > As a note onto why this is a priority now, it’s due to the number of players it affects (well over 50% of the playerbase) and the fact that all our recent updates, and our next update too, are centered on PVP. So, you made PvP a priority and that’s why it’s a priority… ? The decision was made to ignore bugs and Punishing game modes and other issues and make the next few updates all about new PvP modes, but that wasn’t necessary. It was a choice that many players would strongly advise against, except they were ignored. I’m interested to know what percentage of players are affected by Journey being broken? Or dragon eggs being unfair? Or any number of other issues that players regularly point out because we’re ALL affected by them and want them fixed. Seems like more than 50%, to me. ---
**Author:** ![Zuul-Emo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/67e7ee/32.png) [@Zuul-Emo](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Zuul-Emo)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 10:28pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/pvp-change-notes-july-24th-2024/84490/108 "2024-06-26T22:28:28Z")
Just curious where players would put certain game modes, on the Punishing/Challenging scale, as defined here. Obviously Journey events are way over to the left. What others would go with them? And where would you put other modes? ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/d/c/dc7ddb831887d3935a7d8493db543226fc4cf6fa.png) ---
**Author:** ![TheIdleOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@TheIdleOne](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TheIdleOne)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 10:33pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/pvp-change-notes-july-24th-2024/84490/109 "2024-06-26T22:33:14Z")
> [@Kezef](#): > > What you don’t see on these boards are people who play a handful of matches while riding an Uber to their job if they don’t feel like watching TikTok videos and probably accumulate less in a month (or six) than a lot of high-end guilds require of their members in a week. So basically the same people who probably dont need those troops or have to worry about Stellarix and Wand of stars since they’re not on long enough to level up to reach those player levels to actually fight them in pvp That being said, I have to wonder how many those casuals you’ve mentioned actually exist. I’m sure some do, but the player base has clearly stagnated in the upper end and there is clear signs of player base loss in the last few years. How many of those casuals are actually sticking around that could be doing the same thing in a lot of other games instead? I don’t doubt it, but I also don’t think there’s as many as you think there might be. ---
**Author:** ![McDoubleDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@McDoubleDad](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/McDoubleDad)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 11:00pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/pvp-change-notes-july-24th-2024/84490/110 "2024-06-26T23:00:05Z")
Tho it is from Nexus Wand of Stars is obtained thru earning The Lovers tarot card not as a forgeable Kingdom of the Week weapon. Zuul is craftable by Power Orbs. Takshaka & The Gray King are obtainable thru Glory, Gem, Guild & VIP chests, Event chests when their particular Kingdom rolls around, or craftable in the Soulforge randomly once per cycle. I love donuts and will bet as much as you like. ---
**Author:** ![Stratelier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/977dab/32.png) [@Stratelier](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Stratelier)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2024, 11:48pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/pvp-change-notes-july-24th-2024/84490/111 "2024-06-26T23:48:30Z")
> [@Sylwani](#): > > Because no matter how many times kafka tells us that the rng is the same for player and Ai its a lie. I know this is a stock response, but … “prove it.” Raw data, because anecdotes don’t cut it for proof. From the development side, it’s actually much less work (which means fewer bugs) to just use the same RNG for both sides. ---
**Author:** ![Tresk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/tresk/32/98004_2.png) [@Tresk](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Tresk)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2024, 12:49am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/pvp-change-notes-july-24th-2024/84490/112 "2024-06-27T00:49:50Z")
> [@Dwuemka](#): > > By allowing player-made defences, instead of forcing the “attack team is your defence team” concept. I agree with bringing defense teams back, too. Like I said here… > [@Tresk](#): > > > [@Kafka](#): > > > > a permanent solution shouldn’t be to just remove all your agency and give unexpected results > > If agency mattered, we would be allowed to set defense teams independent of attack teams. Pretty much zero people want our attack teams as defenders, so therefore we already have had all of our agency removed. Not being able to set specific defenses makes the entire idea of the pvp mode sillier than it already was. Like, not only are we fighting AI instead of a player, we are using “swords” as “shields,” as it were. > [@Dwuemka](#): > > Casual was a great place to just zen out when gemming - no millions of annoying pop-ups (explore, I’m looking at you), relatively easy, you picked a reliable team and off you went to enjoy what match-3 games are about - matching gems and enjoying the wins. I really miss that. Interesting. Well I hope they find a way to bring it back for you. I would love just having time to zen out in GoW. I can’t even remember the last time I did that. I know I used to love to play the old arena (before they ruined it by removing the weapons) for hours, for no reason. I probably had some other fun stuff, after that, before they started cramming the game with more stuff to do. ---
**Author:** ![Kafka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/kafka/32/33529_2.png) [@Kafka](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Kafka)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2024, 4:00am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/pvp-change-notes-july-24th-2024/84490/113 "2024-06-27T04:00:17Z")
The Troop swap is released now. ---
**Author:** ![Darkborne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/darkborne/32/95796_2.png) [@Darkborne](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Darkborne)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2024, 5:37am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/pvp-change-notes-july-24th-2024/84490/114 "2024-06-27T05:37:32Z")
Thank you, but this is just a bandaid covering up the many cuts, scrapes and bruises you guys put in pvp. •Give us back casual pvp so that we can raise class levels faster and try to get pet gnomes easier. •Fix the monolith glitch that gives us only 4 exp in pvp regions once we activate them. This is ridiculous, and if the monoliths gave us gold marks, it would have been fixed ASAP. •Place indicators for gold marks on the world map in place of the orange lanterns so that players are not confused. •Implement a win streak bonus (maybe 50% more VP?) to encourage different tactical strategies that reward more careful decisions. •Give other alliances half the gold mark bonus that the top alliance receives for winning citadel battles so that they at least get something instead of just the 40% extra stats. There is a lot to go through, but this is part of my thought process. I’m not saying my ideas are ideal, just that the current pvp is too luck based and confusing for me, and we need to turn the ship around in another direction… ---
**Author:** ![Dwuemka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/dwuemka/32/67058_2.png) [@Dwuemka](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Dwuemka)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2024, 5:40am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/pvp-change-notes-july-24th-2024/84490/115 "2024-06-27T05:40:41Z")
> [@Tresk](#): > > Interesting. Well I hope they find a way to bring it back for you. I would love just having time to zen out in GoW. I can’t even remember the last time I did that. I know I used to love to play the old arena (before they ruined it by removing the weapons) for hours, for no reason. I probably had some other fun stuff, after that, before they started cramming the game with more stuff to do. One more argument for restoring casual in some shape or form: by taking away casual PvP, required class levelling time for many players got doubled (explore gives only 1 class XP, while PvP gives 2). With PvP being so difficult now, players who are still growing their account are crippled and forced to slow down - either by going to explore or facing a higher percentage of losses (especially if a player doesn’t yet have the key counters). > [@Tresk](#): > > Not being able to set specific defenses makes the entire idea of the pvp mode sillier than it already was. Like, not only are we fighting AI instead of a player, we are using “swords” as “shields,” as it were. THIS. Attack teams used on defense turn the battles into fighting fire with fire - and it has no chance to work! I guess, in theory, it was supposed to work like this: 99% players use meta team on attack, so the enemies are nearly identical. So players have to start using counters - but then these counters become the 99% enemies we are seeing. So players switch to using counters to these counters - and the enemies change again - I guess it was supposed to actually break the meta. But as we can see - this doesn’t work; it only made the meta teams more visible and the subsequent steps (where people keep adjusting to the current meta and thus enemies offered change) beyond the first one just don’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![Dwuemka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/dwuemka/32/67058_2.png) [@Dwuemka](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Dwuemka)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2024, 5:51am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/pvp-change-notes-july-24th-2024/84490/116 "2024-06-27T05:51:17Z")
> [@Darkborne](#): > > •Implement a win streak bonus (maybe 50% more VP?) to encourage different tactical strategies that reward more careful decisions. I would stand behind this idea, but only after we get access to more team slots / we are given a way to pick teams without having to re-create them every single time. Otherwise it will be just dead content/concept. ---
**Author:** ![Ash3nShad3](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/ash3nshad3/32/96675_2.png) [@Ash3nShad3](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Ash3nShad3)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2024, 7:19am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/pvp-change-notes-july-24th-2024/84490/117 "2024-06-27T07:19:31Z")
> [@sylverscale](#): > > If you nerf these, BTW, another annoying meta will pop up. We didn’t use these teams so much of at all before you nerfed pathfinders. Agree - nerfing is not the way to go. Many other teams also loop like crazy - Queen Beetrix as well as Takshaka for example. It is because the AI has this crazy ability to loop which we do not have in our attack. Thank you for the new change. Why can this not be permanent? It works fine. ---
**Author:** ![Ash3nShad3](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/ash3nshad3/32/96675_2.png) [@Ash3nShad3](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Ash3nShad3)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2024, 7:20am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/pvp-change-notes-july-24th-2024/84490/118 "2024-06-27T07:20:24Z")
> [@Dwuemka](#): > > I would stand behind this idea, but only after we get access to more team slots / we are given a way to pick teams without having to re-create them every single time. Otherwise it will be just dead content/concept. Agree too - PVP is all about SPEED. It is not Guild Wars. You need to be able to change teams fast if you are going to play with different teams. ---
**Author:** ![Fourdottwoone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/fourdottwoone/32/66655_2.png) [@Fourdottwoone](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Fourdottwoone)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2024, 8:34am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/pvp-change-notes-july-24th-2024/84490/119 "2024-06-27T08:34:08Z")
> [@Ash3nShad3](#): > > Thank you for the new change. Why can this not be permanent? It works fine. It brings back the old issue that high level players now once again have to play twice as much to compete with much lower level players for leaderboard spots. I wonder why battles can’t have fixed VP as “temporary measure”, e.g. 35 for the leftmost battle, 50 for the center battle, 65 for the rightmost battle. ---
**Author:** ![Ash3nShad3](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/ash3nshad3/32/96675_2.png) [@Ash3nShad3](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Ash3nShad3)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2024, 9:26am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/pvp-change-notes-july-24th-2024/84490/120 "2024-06-27T09:26:14Z")
> [@Fourdottwoone](#): > > It brings back the old issue that high level players now once again have to play twice as much to compete with much lower level players for leaderboard spots. I wonder why battles can’t have fixed VP as “temporary measure”, e.g. 35 for the leftmost battle, 50 for the center battle, 65 for the rightmost battle. You can’t have your cake and eat it. Easier battles definitely means people will have to do more battles now - heck the No 1 guy in my League Board literally doubled his 60 000 VP in just the last couple of hours! Agree that it is not fair for players over Lvl 2000 to never get any high VP battles to choose. Apparently they only get 3 low level battles to choose from. ---
**Author:** ![Fourdottwoone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/fourdottwoone/32/66655_2.png) [@Fourdottwoone](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Fourdottwoone)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2024, 10:28am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/pvp-change-notes-july-24th-2024/84490/121 "2024-06-27T10:28:38Z")
> [@Ash3nShad3](#): > > You can’t have your cake and eat it. But you can at least give everybody a similar cake, not penalize those around longer by only handing them a small slice instead. A level 1500 player doesn’t need twice as long to beat a dumbed down level 2000 player team to warrant double scores. And it gets even more absurd the higher in levels you go. ---
**Author:** ![Sheffield](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/sheffield/32/67509_2.png) [@Sheffield](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Sheffield)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2024, 11:15am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/pvp-change-notes-july-24th-2024/84490/122 "2024-06-27T11:15:36Z")
finally you can play pvp properly and comfortably again thanks. 👍 ---
**Author:** ![STUB](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/stub/32/74879_2.png) [@STUB](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/STUB)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2024, 11:59am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/pvp-change-notes-july-24th-2024/84490/123 "2024-06-27T11:59:15Z")
Idiot mode enabled, thanks for dumbing the game down again devs… 🥱 [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/pvp-change-notes-july-24th-2024/84490.md?page=5) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/pvp-change-notes-july-24th-2024/84490.md?page=7)