# Punishing Journey nerf incoming **URL:** \ **Category:** Spoilers\ **Created:** [January 8, 2024, 9:30am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835 "2024-01-08T09:30:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![TheTruth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/thetruth/32/95516_2.png) [@TheTruth](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TheTruth)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 5:22pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/168 "2024-01-11T17:22:11Z")
Just to counter this argument. Hawthorns spell, deathclaws spell. Journey was doable with both. So the journey spell ATM. Isn’t essential for it to work and isn’t the only way it will work. As proven , by the 2 troops mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![TheTruth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/thetruth/32/95516_2.png) [@TheTruth](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TheTruth)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 5:22pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/169 "2024-01-11T17:22:46Z")
Roll on Monday 🙏 ---
**Author:** ![Fourdottwoone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/fourdottwoone/32/66655_2.png) [@Fourdottwoone](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Fourdottwoone)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 5:26pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/170 "2024-01-11T17:26:25Z")
> [@TheTruth](#): > > Hawthorns spell, deathclaws spell. > > Journey was doable with both. This was the old reward system, with 12 reward tiers. The new reward system requires you to go in much deeper if you want to complete it. The first half of the Journey is easy, even without looping Pathfinders. ---
**Author:** ![overthinker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/overthinker/32/86337_2.png) [@overthinker](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/overthinker)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 5:27pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/171 "2024-01-11T17:27:01Z")
I’m sorry to interrupt. But Hawthorn and Deathclaw were used before the events rework. At those time journey could be finished even with an epic pathfinder. ---
**Author:** ![TheTruth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/thetruth/32/95516_2.png) [@TheTruth](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TheTruth)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 5:27pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/172 "2024-01-11T17:27:13Z")
So use the old spells, but increase win points per battle. Pretty easy solution really. ---
**Author:** ![Fourdottwoone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/fourdottwoone/32/66655_2.png) [@Fourdottwoone](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Fourdottwoone)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 5:28pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/173 "2024-01-11T17:28:27Z")
> [@TheTruth](#): > > So use the old spells, but increase win points per battle. See entry post at the top of this thread. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![TheTruth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/thetruth/32/95516_2.png) [@TheTruth](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TheTruth)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 5:31pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/174 "2024-01-11T17:31:56Z")
Did you have to make me find the post, you could of linked it damn 😉. Yea good idea, more points, different spell. It’s the spell outside of journey that’s the issue, not winning or losing battles. Just the whole point, of it’s overuse. I don’t care about the journey books from rewards , I care more about the whole game. I’m actually happy with anything, that stops it’s overuse. ---
**Author:** ![Stratelier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/977dab/32.png) [@Stratelier](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Stratelier)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 7:06pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/175 "2024-01-11T19:06:21Z")
> [@TheIdleOne](#): > > There’s actually a situational check for enemy cast → player trait happens → enemy cast with Nyar’Mel if you really want to be specific on testing exact settings. No, your point is made (and agreed). I think the second version has potential, though – compare “Big Teeth”, somehow STILL the only trait that triggers based on actual Extra Turns. It’s not difficult to imagine this providing a subtle nerf to looping teams specifically – if the looping team gets an Extra Turn then they have to spend that turn charging Mana instead of looping (unless they are immune to Mana Drain, in which case it fails to nerf Seekra Darkwood teams, oops). > [@Hazard1](#): > > I know we all have different skills and playing styles but it baffles me how folks find these Pathfinders somehow overpowered? Again: ![gemsof-todd](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/8/7/874e6d54d8177197210f41b18e8c2f7e372b1c5b.png) Infinite looping is _literally_ a “win button”. It’s the looper saying _“I’ve decided it’s not going to BE your turn. We’re just going to keep having MY turn over and over until you lose.”_ How do you not find any intrinsic design problems with that? > [@JHM](#): > > If you’re not alternating the pathfinder with a second troop/weapon, then yeah, you’re using them wrong. That’s subjective (though I agree nonetheless). The complaint is how it’s even _possible at all_ to loop a single spell over and over without giving the opponent literally any chance to play. Not just for PVP or GW, but also when doing Explore runs in Vulpacea or Hellcrag – once that enemy Todd or Chalcedony starts casting, _even the cpu will preferentially loop that single troop over and over_ despite having technically no knowledge (we know of) what the spell even does. Literally the only counterstrategies are “well, just stop them before they start looping”, but (reiterating) prevention is NOT counterplay. > [@Hazard1](#): > > I still don’t see any reason to start nerfing these Pathfinders. The community always finds ways to beat the META. Maybe this is why the dev team let the looping problem stew for OVER A YEAR despite it being identified literally on day one? The problem is how, when dealing with Extra Turns specifically, there literally IS no counter outside of attempting to deny/prevent the Extra Turns to begin with. And the options to do that are … limited, and themselves easily countered. > [@Hazard1](#): > > Mercy has always been problem in various defences, but still we managed to find ways to counter it. In part because Mercy is a Gem _converter_, not a Gem _creator._ Compare Glitterclaw, who deals damage and converts Blue to Green (its own color), meaning it can often get an immediate recast, but only ONE recast – not the same as Chalcedony & co. > [@overthinker](#): > > At those time journey could be finished even with an epic pathfinder. Technically, ALL Pathfinders are base Epic… ---
**Author:** ![overthinker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/overthinker/32/86337_2.png) [@overthinker](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/overthinker)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 7:12pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/176 "2024-01-11T19:12:17Z")
> [@Stratelier](#): > > Technically, ALL Pathfinders are base Epic… But at those times we didn’t need to ascend them) ---
**Author:** ![Kezef](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Kezef](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Kezef)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 7:22pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/177 "2024-01-11T19:22:54Z")
> [@TheTruth](#): > > Hawthorns spell, deathclaws spell. The limitations for Hawthorne’s event allowed players to use a 2xGobtruffle team. While Hawthorne could be used to manage the board in certain ways during that event, he was a Pathfinder that was largely unnecessary beyond the bonus points from his third trait. Deathclaw was a Pathfinder most of us stuck at the back of our team and ignored outside of his 3rd trait. The troop restrictions were relatively mild as far as those things went, because there were plenty of viable troops that met the criteria. But it was probably the “most difficult” of the Journey events because it was the “most useless” Pathfinder. A big problem is that we haven’t found that “happy medium”. The developers seem to have finally roused from their torpor and attempted to address this now that we’re seeing Journey events a lot more often. And I find myself wondering if this would be the issue that it has become if they went straight to the numbers that Taransworld is showing for the upcoming troops rather than go to the heights of the Tood/Seekra/etc paradigm and having to pull back afterwards. Although, to be fair, I believe several of us commented on the Todd/Seekra paradigm being a bad idea ahead of time. It just didn’t accomplish anything other than to make us the GoW Forums equivalent of Cassandra. ---
**Author:** ![Dust\_Angel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/dust_angel/32/35256_2.png) [@Dust\_Angel](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Dust_Angel)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 7:24pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/178 "2024-01-11T19:24:07Z")
> [@overthinker](#): > > But at those times we didn’t need to ascend them) Sure, especially bugged Hawthorn event that landed fewer miles than supposed but rewards thresholds were unchanged. Anyhow, any journey event can be completed without pathfinder altogether. Just cough up the gems. ---
**Author:** ![TheTruth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/thetruth/32/95516_2.png) [@TheTruth](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TheTruth)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 7:27pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/179 "2024-01-11T19:27:53Z")
Ok , point my point is still valid. he was a Pathfinder that was largely unnecessary beyond the bonus points from his third trait (Doom weapon) Because even tho, you stuck deathclaw at the back (reminds me of doom with the weapon 🤣). We still did it. That’s the difference between want and need. We want it to stay, to easy quick one button win But we need it to change, for long term game enjoyment. Thanks. Tho. ---
**Author:** ![Jerry\_the\_skunk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jerry_the_skunk/32/53897_2.png) [@Jerry\_the\_skunk](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Jerry_the_skunk)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 8:47pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/180 "2024-01-11T20:47:31Z")
> [@Stratelier](#): > > The complaint is how it’s even _possible at all_ to loop a single spell over and over without giving the opponent literally any chance to play. I’ve seen my fair share of dirty wins and losses with only a hero with Wand of Stars remaining against a full team. I feel like this one might be even more broken than the pathfinders. ---
**Author:** ![TheTruth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/thetruth/32/95516_2.png) [@TheTruth](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TheTruth)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 8:59pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/181 "2024-01-11T20:59:16Z")
It’s more broken, to lose 3 troops and win with wand, even though crusher has been doing this years. Than it is to win , without losing a turn or a troop and only using one finger in your opinion. I can’t even take what you say seriously after this one 🤦‍♂️ ---
**Author:** ![Ash3nShad3](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/ash3nshad3/32/96675_2.png) [@Ash3nShad3](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Ash3nShad3)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 9:40pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/182 "2024-01-11T21:40:38Z")
> [@TheTruth](#): > > Have you played central spire today, a lot of seekra opponents. > > From the people , mindless pressing buttons as you put it. That is not what is happening. The looping teams are too slow for attack. Accurate but slow. People are deliberately leaving them in Central as Defense teams. Then they play in other regions that are easier and faster, with other teams, very often Diamantina. ---
**Author:** ![TheTruth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/thetruth/32/95516_2.png) [@TheTruth](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TheTruth)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 9:48pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/183 "2024-01-11T21:48:08Z")
Have you asked all these players from other guilds and consoles and phones . Your assuming this, let’s be honest here. ---
**Author:** ![Dwuemka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/dwuemka/32/67058_2.png) [@Dwuemka](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Dwuemka)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 9:49pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/184 "2024-01-11T21:49:10Z")
> [@Ash3nShad3](#): > > That is not what is happening. The looping teams are too slow for attack. Accurate but slow. People are deliberately leaving them in Central as Defense teams. Then they play in other regions that are easier and faster, with other teams, very often Diamantina. Why on earth for they would do that? In the current state of the game there’s ZERO incentive to put up weird teams like this, when wins on defense mean nothing for the VP score or ranking or what not. Even of you are right and they do it - why? To make other players angry? Frustrated? To spoil the game for the others? I know that some take weird satisfaction for being nasty to others, but… why…? No more revenge battles, we gain literally NOTHING from making the game miserable to other players. Nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Ash3nShad3](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/ash3nshad3/32/96675_2.png) [@Ash3nShad3](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Ash3nShad3)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 9:51pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/185 "2024-01-11T21:51:35Z")
> [@TheTruth](#): > > Have you asked all these players from other guilds and consoles and phones . > > Your assuming this, let’s be honest here No saw some discussions in Discord…advice given on how to play fast in other regions and leave defense team in Central. That is why you see lots of firebomb teams there too. No one is playing with them as attack obviously. ---
**Author:** ![Ash3nShad3](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/ash3nshad3/32/96675_2.png) [@Ash3nShad3](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Ash3nShad3)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 9:54pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/186 "2024-01-11T21:54:39Z")
> [@Dwuemka](#): > > Why on earth for they would do that? In the current state of the game there’s ZERO incentive to put up weird teams like this, when wins on defense mean nothing for the VP score or ranking or what not. Even of you are right and they do it - why? To make other players angry? Frustrated? To spoil the game for the others? I know that some take weird satisfaction for being nasty to others, but… why…? Probably to mimimize losses? Why are there lots of firebomb teams as well as skull teams there? Obviously they are not used for attack. Skull teams especially on lower levels are too slow also. Don’t shoot the messenger. Just telling you what I know. ---
**Author:** ![TheTruth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/thetruth/32/95516_2.png) [@TheTruth](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TheTruth)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 9:56pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/187 "2024-01-11T21:56:14Z")
The firebomb teams are still there from the old PvP It’s still season zero. We have to give it time to iron out , we’ve been told this by the Devs. [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835.md?page=8) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835.md?page=10)