# Punishing Journey nerf incoming
**URL:** https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835
**Category:** Spoilers
**Created:** [January 8, 2024, 9:30am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835 "2024-01-08T09:30:09Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 6
### Author:  [@Jerry\_the\_skunk](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Jerry_the_skunk)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2024, 8:15pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/102 "2024-01-09T20:15:05Z")
Unless you have an option to make them increasingly stronger (like in the mentioned Todd/Persistence pairing), pathfinders are a very reliable, but slow playstyle. For modes that contain a lot of fights, like competitive Pvp, Tower or Underspire, they will always be second choice to stronger, specialised teams, that get the job done in half the time.
The wargare Pvp area in the last and current week may have twisted the image to a feeling of omnipresence, but that won’t last.
P.S.: I am usually around GW bracket 20-25, and there is still barely anything but books (and the usual suspects of Life and Death Orbweaver, Goblin lineup or Leonis Tower + Enraged Kurandera).
P.P.S.: Don’t get me wrong, I’d love it, if the main focus of the game shifted back to match 3 instead of teambuilding and automatism, but that would take a gigantic change at this point; big enough that it might be easier to completely reset the game instead.
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### Author:  [@Dwuemka](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Dwuemka)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2024, 8:30pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/103 "2024-01-09T20:30:35Z")
> [@Jerry\_the\_skunk](#):
>
> P.P.S.: Don’t get me wrong, I’d love it, if the main focus of the game shifted back to match 3 instead of teambuilding and automatism, but that would take a gigantic change at this point; big enough that it might be easier to completely reset the game instead.
Treasure maps still exist! And Arena. 🤣 sorry, I just couldn’t stop myself 😉
Re: balance & visibility - there are journey 7 loopers in the game at the moment, so, 7 tribes, and 7 kingdoms. Some tribe teams are stronger than others - like Egris/Finesse, Todd/Persistence, Seekra/King Avelorn (50% fast start), and Chalcedony /Geomancer hero (fast start) are the most annoying ones. Although the knights and dragons might be just as nasty… I just don’t see them just as often as the first 4. So… 7 out of 38 kingdoms, 7 out of 28 tribes. We have 4 regions this week where a journey looper can fit in (Wargare, Elf, Hellcrag, Sword’s Edge), out of the 6 outer regions. And all color-restricted regions have viable journey looper options, and they are always an option in Central Spire. So, 8 out of 10 regions.
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### Author:  [@Kelana](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Kelana)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2024, 8:46pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/104 "2024-01-09T20:46:51Z")
> [@panda-zebra](#):
>
> Exactly this. You start nerfing things in PvE just because of PvP (that not everyone cares for), i.e. the Bungie way of doing things, and you end up ruining your game, nerfing everything down into mediocrity that nobody actually enjoys anymore.
I know that it’s a very different type of game, but this is something World of Warcraft really figured out early on and it’s been successful for 20 years now (oh dear god, I’m old). They figured out after a short period that there was no way to make everything perfect for both PVE and PVP, so they stopped trying.
Yes, most mechanics are the same for both modes, but there are some things that are just different - and the players accept that. And for the most part, I think most of the players are even grateful for that separation because it allows people to enjoy whichever aspect(s) of the game they prefer without that conflict. They may argue the details of a decision or its implementation, but I don’t think there are many players who are unhappy that the two modes can be balanced separately.
Again, I get that these are vastly different kinds of games, but I still think the base concept of separately balancing PVE and PVP is sound and could be very beneficial here.
@Kafka
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### Author:  [@TheIdleOne](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TheIdleOne)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2024, 9:04pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/105 "2024-01-09T21:04:34Z")
> [@Dwuemka](#):
>
> We have 4 regions this week where a journey looper can fit in (Wargare, Elf, Hellcrag, Sword’s Edge), out of the 6 outer regions.
Just a FYI, Sir Ailuin is from Silverglade
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### Author:  [@Lackle](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lackle)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2024, 9:08pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/106 "2024-01-09T21:08:08Z")
I would like to know if there are plans to refund people who spent money on the headstart packages for the previous journey troops. I bought the headstarts to get them to shinny level 2. I would not have spent that money if the troops were not as good as they currently are. I expect a refund, of actual money and not gems, of those purchases if the troops are nerfed. If refunds are not offered i would consider it a bait and switch and borderline fraud.
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### Author:  [@TheTruth](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TheTruth)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2024, 9:11pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/107 "2024-01-09T21:11:55Z")
I’m sure they’ll refund you.
If you refund them every , reward, glory, class exp, hero level, trophie, gw win, PvP win, ect ect. That you got from using them.
It works both ways dude.
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### Author:  [@Lackle](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lackle)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2024, 9:14pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/108 "2024-01-09T21:14:47Z")
Thats fine with me. Like i said i never would have made those purchases if the troops were not as good as they currently are. They can have their 4 shiny keys and 5 shiny tokens back. I dont know why you are talking about gems, glory, and other resources…i would have gotten the troops from the event anyway without spending any money and used them to get those rewards.
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### Author:  [@TheTruth](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TheTruth)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2024, 9:17pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/109 "2024-01-09T21:17:15Z")
Yes but your saying you want the money back from buying stuff.
So the shiny helped your troop win things, it’s called fair.
Also the journey event you used it in, you’d have to minus the points, so all your guild members lose the journey rewards to.
See this is how it really works.
And fraud that’s hilarious, troops have been nerfed before get a grip 🤣
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### Author:  [@Malcolm](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Malcolm)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2024, 9:18pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/110 "2024-01-09T21:18:19Z")
In Bracket 1 you don’t see many journey troops and they’re easy enough to counter.
No-one is forcing anyone to use them in other modes if they don’t want to, and if you’re (generally speaking, not you personally) losing to them consistently in PvP that’s because your own setup isn’t good enough, not because they’re unbeatable.
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### Author:  [@TheTruth](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TheTruth)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2024, 9:19pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/111 "2024-01-09T21:19:49Z")
I don’t lose to them, in any mode.
I want them nerfed, before there’s 38 of them one for every kingdom. I’m thinking of the big picture, not my personal small picture.
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### Author:  [@Lackle](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lackle)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2024, 9:23pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/112 "2024-01-09T21:23:55Z")
So let me get this straight, you dont think its fraudulent to sell me a product only 4 weeks ago and now they are already talking about how they are going to change it to be basically worthless? I dont disagree that the troops need to be nerfed. The reason i payed money for them is because they are OP.
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### Author:  [@Dwuemka](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Dwuemka)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2024, 9:24pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/113 "2024-01-09T21:24:28Z")
> [@TheIdleOne](#):
>
> Just a FYI, Sir Ailuin is from Silverglade
Facepalm. Of course. This still brings the total to 7 out of 10… Still a lot.
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### Author:  [@TheTruth](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TheTruth)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2024, 9:26pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/114 "2024-01-09T21:26:24Z")
For it to be fraud, you’d have to prove in a court of law, you reason for buying the headstart.
And the judge would say, did you get your journey rewards, you’d answer yes
Then the judge would say, ok well that’s what you paid for, it’s for that event. Case closed you lose .
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### Author:  [@Malcolm](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Malcolm)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2024, 9:26pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/115 "2024-01-09T21:26:35Z")
Agree completely. As soon as a game decides PvP players are more important than PvE or vice versa it’s creating an irreconcilable split in the player base.
It seems even more ludicrous in a game with no real PvP, just PvE with user created teams.
More likely they want to make it even harder to get weekly rewards to encourage more micro-transactions.
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### Author:  [@Dwuemka](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Dwuemka)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2024, 9:29pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/116 "2024-01-09T21:29:22Z")
> [@Malcolm](#):
>
> and if you’re (generally speaking, not you personally) losing to them consistently in PvP that’s because your own setup isn’t good enough, not because they’re unbeatable.
I mentioned this above… these troops make it possible for AI to win after the player takes one and only move. If the starting board is bad for the player (no match 4/5 alignment, no obvious match-4/5 from gems falling down after a match) and AI manages to start looping immediately on its first turn - player’s team becomes irrelevant.
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### Author:  [@Lackle](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lackle)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2024, 10:16pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/117 "2024-01-09T22:16:43Z")
> [@TheTruth](#):
>
> Also the journey event you used it in, you’d have to minus the points, so all your guild members lose the journey rewards to.
I have an easy fix for that. I already buy up to teir 6 in the event shop each week. They could deduct 500 gems from my account for each headstart I bought. I wouldn’t even ask for the other rewards that come from buying tier 7.
If I had spent in game currency for the headstart, I wouldn’t care about this and wouldn’t have posted here. Its the fact that I spent real world currency, which I don’t have much of for entertainment purchases, that rubs me the wrong way.
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### Author:  [@sylverscale](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/sylverscale)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2024, 11:06pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/118 "2024-01-09T23:06:42Z")
> [@Dwuemka](#):
>
> You still don’t understand me…
I did understand you.
But that means the AI usage of the troop is broken. Doesn’t mean the troop needs to be nerfed, just how the AI handles it.
That’s two different things.
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### Author:  [@Stratelier](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Stratelier)
#### Post date: [January 10, 2024, 12:25am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/119 "2024-01-10T00:25:04Z")
> [@TheIdleOne](#):
>
> Cool, maybe you can convince them to get rid of empowered troops while you’re at it.
You know what we need? More “Swift” troops. That trait is seriously underused (taking a backseat to both Empowered AND Fast).
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### Author:  [@Carlsbad](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Carlsbad)
#### Post date: [January 10, 2024, 1:16am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/120 "2024-01-10T01:16:50Z")
Nice! We haven’t had a good meme in this channel lately:
> [@Memes of War share your homemade gems memes here!](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/memes-of-war-share-your-homemade-gems-memes-here/47209/256):
>
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### Author:  [@Kezef](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Kezef)
#### Post date: [January 10, 2024, 2:15am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/punishing-journey-nerf-incoming/82835/121 "2024-01-10T02:15:33Z")
> [@TheIdleOne](#):
>
> Cool, maybe you can convince them to get rid of empowered troops while you’re at it.
Once upon a time, I proposed an inverse to the Medal of Anu, one that would drain 20% of mana from opposition troops at the start of battle. Maybe we could push for that sort of counterplay idea, although logic suggests that this anti-Medal could be neutralized in PvP (and Guild Wars) through the use of a Medal of Anu to counteract it.
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