# Petition for the removal of minor traitstones from Legendary Tasks **URL:** \ **Category:** Feature Requests and Game feedback\ **Created:** [August 23, 2017, 10:15pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/petition-for-the-removal-of-minor-traitstones-from-legendary-tasks/29275 "2017-08-23T22:15:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@death](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/death)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 11:51pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/petition-for-the-removal-of-minor-traitstones-from-legendary-tasks/29275/22 "2017-08-23T23:51:38Z")
100% removal of minor stones. Also I cringe every time I see Glory as a reward to. Glory anyone?? ---
**Author:** ![Vangor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/vangor/32/31404_2.png) [@Vangor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Vangor)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 12:14am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/petition-for-the-removal-of-minor-traitstones-from-legendary-tasks/29275/23 "2017-08-24T00:14:46Z")
> [@death](#): > > Also I cringe every time I see Glory as a reward to. > > Glory anyone I actually like and can use the glory still… ---
**Author:** ![einsteinle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@einsteinle](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/einsteinle)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 12:35am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/petition-for-the-removal-of-minor-traitstones-from-legendary-tasks/29275/24 "2017-08-24T00:35:28Z")
While we’re at it, can I request again that they please either remove seals from the picture of possible rewards, OR actually add them to the pool of actual rewards? I can’t believe this hasn’t been addressed yet. ---
**Author:** ![RiverSong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/riversong/32/2089_2.png) [@RiverSong](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/RiverSong)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 1:11am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/petition-for-the-removal-of-minor-traitstones-from-legendary-tasks/29275/25 "2017-08-24T01:11:52Z")
You’re asking that they remove something and put in something we know nothing about. Maybe patience would be a virtue here. ---
**Author:** ![Mithran](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mithran/32/18064_2.png) [@Mithran](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mithran)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 1:58am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/petition-for-the-removal-of-minor-traitstones-from-legendary-tasks/29275/26 "2017-08-24T01:58:02Z")
Touched on this before. Currently, anyone reaching legendary tasks gets more minors per week on average than it takes to trait anything released from gold keys from the tasks that must be completed to reach legendary tasks, let alone other sources and farming them. If you need them _now_, but you stay in any guild that completes brown 6 and have even minimal glory pack purchases, you eventually _will not_ need them, thats all it takes. Granted, it will take quite a while starting at zero with no gameplay to supplement, but when you have “enough” minors, you have “enough” forever, even given near zero actual gamplay. This makes them a dead end resource. In order for this to change and have them not be a dead end resource, crafting will need to constantly and steadily sink them from the economy by being able to turn them into something that is _not_ a dead end. Since every traitstone is a dead end resource to some degree to all players reaching the LT level consistently (usually - majors, then minors, then celestial, then arcanes, then runics, the order of the last 3 counting only post economy fix and depending on your level of play and VIP level), crafting different rarities traitstones is irrelevant for keeping minors in LTs at this stage unless they eventually feed into something else entirely, and of sufficient quantities to not be dead ends anymore _while also not making the thing they feed into a dead end and keeping it available to the entire playerbase_. I’m for waiting to see what crafting brings to this, but I’m thinking that they would need to sink such quantities of minors in a short order for them to be relevant _at all_ that their overall purchasing power would be so low as to still be groan inducing when you get them in an LT. Maybe not “actually worthless”, like they are now, but “functionally useless in quantities given”. For example, craft minor into majors into runics into arcanes into jewels into weapons/troops. If you are suddenly need hundreds of extra minors _exclusively_ per week to get some other thing you couldn’t get otherwise, you’ve activated a long term sink that will take months or even years to drain long term players while players that haven’t been playing as long will be consistently frustrated at not being able to reach the mark, which I don’t see happening. To that end, it probably will be worth revisiting this topic when crafting comes out, and while I’m willing to bet it will still not _preferable_ to any degree to obtain minors as a reward when completing Legendary tasks, I’ll probably no longer be able to claim that they are essentially disguised null drops from a mathematical standpoint, like they are now. I may or may not still have an objection when I run the numbers post crafting. My main issue is having functional zeros on a random reward table is one of the worst things ever from a satisfaction standpoint, and the table should have been balanced without having the zeros on them if that is what was needed, and claiming that they are not functional zeros would be completely disingenuous. For guilds just starting on legendary tasks, this is a motivation killer that stagnates growth. > [@death](#): > > 100% removal of minor stones. Also I cringe every time I see Glory as a reward to. > > Glory anyone?? Glory may not have _much_ purchasing power, but it does have _some_. You can never have too much glory so long as you can convert glory to event keys, and use event keys for an event legendary instead of gems. Although a single copy of an event legedendary in a two legendary kingdom will generally run you around 15k glory and a lot of clicks to buy all those keys _and_ it is random. On any of the given tables, raw glory is actually a better reward than Glory Keys - same functional quantity, better variety of purchasing power. In order for Glory to be not relevant at all, you need to be able to sustainably obtain every troop to mythic when it releases plus every new mythic with whatever you happen to have weekly without the glory, and at that point _nothing_ is relevant because you already have everything forever so long as you can sustain that baseline. And not even that baseline is sustainable indefinitely, because when more legendaries enter the drop pool on a given kingdom, the price goes _up_ again, unlike the total average trait costs of troops introduced over a period of time, which has remained mostly static since the introduction of mythics (gone down a bit since we normally get 1 troop per week, in fact). ---
**Author:** ![en9nhcet](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/en9nhcet/32/1673_2.png) [@en9nhcet](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/en9nhcet)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 4:17am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/petition-for-the-removal-of-minor-traitstones-from-legendary-tasks/29275/27 "2017-08-24T04:17:41Z")
i myself have a few spare purples 🕶 ![spare purples](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/9/5/957129cc102c3ac771034e0214fa8ed85f3862c2.PNG) i think a 1 new gem per minor could be a good trade rate… ---
**Author:** ![Vangor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/vangor/32/31404_2.png) [@Vangor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Vangor)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 2:52pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/petition-for-the-removal-of-minor-traitstones-from-legendary-tasks/29275/28 "2017-08-24T14:52:41Z")
Bumping this so it doesnt fade into obscurity I also find it interesting the absence of some voices i was sure would have a strong opinion one way or the other on this… People please dont let your dislike of me specifically stop you from making your voice heard on this! As long as any disagreements dont devolve into callouts and name calling i welcome every side of the discussion! ---
**Author:** ![Strat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Strat](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Strat)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 5:26pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/petition-for-the-removal-of-minor-traitstones-from-legendary-tasks/29275/29 "2017-08-24T17:26:59Z")
@Mithran Nice write up! That’s more text than I type in a month😋 Just something to consider that hasn’t been mentioned: Minors might be a integrated method to dilute the value of Legendary Tasks to help keep top Guilds from running away with resources. Keep in mind after the new system was in place there were NO LT’s at all, this system was implemented specifically to curtail the top Guilds gathering speed. LT were just a response to give them something to put Gold into. ---
**Author:** ![Nephilim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/nephilim/32/29092_2.png) [@Nephilim](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Nephilim)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 5:32pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/petition-for-the-removal-of-minor-traitstones-from-legendary-tasks/29275/30 "2017-08-24T17:32:07Z")
I finished one today and had 20 little purples. That’s really annoying when I’ve got almost ten thousand gold chests to open that’s going to give me a shed load more. Minor and majors shouldn’t be in. It’s insulting. ---
**Author:** ![Supremesis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/supremesis/32/24521_2.png) [@Supremesis](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Supremesis)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 6:06pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/petition-for-the-removal-of-minor-traitstones-from-legendary-tasks/29275/31 "2017-08-24T18:06:03Z")
I’ll be it said that Legendary Tasks are to be the best tasks going they sure as hell are not, yeah you can get legendary troops, yeah you can get mythic troops etc etc but with the amount that goes into normal tasks for said resources vastly outweigh the resources gained from legendary tasks very very very far! Lke 40 minors and 20 glory keys 100 Glory? Not funny something needs to be done seen 0 gems from legendary tasks as my guild’s left 'em from constant crap that we get from them even though we only manage 1 a week it’s still just MEH! ---
**Author:** ![Strat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Strat](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Strat)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 6:27pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/petition-for-the-removal-of-minor-traitstones-from-legendary-tasks/29275/32 "2017-08-24T18:27:22Z")
> [@Supremesis](#): > > I’ll be it said that Legendary Tasks are to be the best tasks going they sure as hell are not… Legendary Tasks were **_NEVER EVER_** designed to be the best Tasks, _far_ from it. Its just a silly name for a few extra resources top Guilds can obtain by spending extra Gold after the limitless resource firehose was turned off. I’m just explaining how things are, I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with the developers decisions. ---
**Author:** ![Stan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/stan/32/29888_2.png) [@Stan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Stan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 6:58pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/petition-for-the-removal-of-minor-traitstones-from-legendary-tasks/29275/33 "2017-08-24T18:58:29Z")
> [@Strat](#): > > Legendary Tasks were NEVER EVER designed to be the best Tasks Exactly right. The return on investment diminishes with each level of guild tasks, and so it should be (and is) with legendary tasks as well. ---
**Author:** ![Vangor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/vangor/32/31404_2.png) [@Vangor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Vangor)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 7:03pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/petition-for-the-removal-of-minor-traitstones-from-legendary-tasks/29275/34 "2017-08-24T19:03:22Z")
Seems counter-intuitive tho ---
**Author:** ![Stan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/stan/32/29888_2.png) [@Stan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Stan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 7:17pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/petition-for-the-removal-of-minor-traitstones-from-legendary-tasks/29275/35 "2017-08-24T19:17:04Z")
> [@Vangor](#): > > Seems counter-intuitive tho I don’t think so (aside from the name). If the ROI increased with each task, then the biggest and best guilds would get an exponentially larger advantage over everyone else. If you think poaching is a problem now, imagine what it would be like if LT’s gave a return like the 1st few levels of guild tasks. LT’s need to provide an outlet for excess gold, not create a bottomless goldmine. ---
**Author:** ![Vangor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/vangor/32/31404_2.png) [@Vangor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Vangor)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 7:25pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/petition-for-the-removal-of-minor-traitstones-from-legendary-tasks/29275/36 "2017-08-24T19:25:40Z")
Ok thats a good point bit minor traitstones? I got 30 minor greens yesterday now if you figure the investment is 1/30 of 1M is 33,333 gold. If they offered 30 minors 2 glory keys and 7 event keys for 33,333 gold would you buy it? ---
**Author:** ![Stan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/stan/32/29888_2.png) [@Stan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Stan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 7:28pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/petition-for-the-removal-of-minor-traitstones-from-legendary-tasks/29275/37 "2017-08-24T19:28:41Z")
No, probably not, but I’m actually buying a lotto ticket for 33,333 gold which might give me that stuff or a combination of arcanes, gems or a mythic which I would gladly pay 33,333 gold for. I haven’t opened a legendary myself in 5 months, but from what I see my wife getting, I’d say the balance is pretty good overall. Sometimes it’s meh and sometimes it’s exciting. ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 7:36pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/petition-for-the-removal-of-minor-traitstones-from-legendary-tasks/29275/38 "2017-08-24T19:36:45Z")
I’m pretty sure the inclusion of Minor Traitstones was due to the avalanche of threads at a time where Minors (especially Minor Fires) were scarce at endgame. > [@Most RAREST and needed traitstone.. Minor Red confused](http://community.gemsofwar.com/t/most-rarest-and-needed-traitstone-minor-red/9135): > > I need couple thousand. Lol How bout you ? > [@Which Traitstones do you need the most right now?](http://community.gemsofwar.com/t/which-traitstones-do-you-need-the-most-right-now/3952): > > Most people have sounded out about Arcane Traitstones being the hardest to get right now. Though I can definitely see that being an issue in the future, I’m actually suffering from the more immediate problem of running low on Minor while having hundreds of Majors sitting around. What about you guys? How long before you eventually had enough Minors to not have to worry about that any more? Are Arcanes really the most desirable at this point? > [@So my minor fire stones is pretty low](http://community.gemsofwar.com/t/so-my-minor-fire-stones-is-pretty-low/4857): > > What would be the best way to get those minor fire stones? Have a kingdom as home that contains only fire stones? > [@In urgent need of minor fire trait stones](http://community.gemsofwar.com/t/in-urgent-need-of-minor-fire-trait-stones/8139): > > As the title implies, I can’t seem to accrue enough minor fire (red) stones. I’m using Adana currently as my home kingdom. In the past I rec’d a good amount of minor fire stones while using this kingdom. Currently, the game just NEVER coughs up any of these. Any thoughts on how to get more of these stones. I’m around level 260 something, if that matters. Thanks a lot. I think the need for them has been drastically reduced (though that’s partially due to their ubiquity in Legendary tasks, so yay it worked?) and since early 2016, people have been asking for Minors to be removed from these tasks. > [@Minor Traitstones in Legendary Tasks](http://community.gemsofwar.com/t/minor-traitstones-in-legendary-tasks/18210): > > I’m going to keep this simple: should we get rid of them here or keep them? [poll](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/minor-traitstones-in-legendary-tasks/18210/1) I mean, you all know what my opinion is. Legendary Tasks, basic traitstones… > [@Take Minor Traitstones Out of Legendary Tasks](http://community.gemsofwar.com/t/take-minor-traitstones-out-of-legendary-tasks/15811): > > … and put them somewhere else. We need them, that’s why they’ve been slapped on here, but that’s a failure of the rest of the system to provide them in sufficient quantities. Having traitstones in one of the task chains, for instance, would be better. Or - as I’m sure has been suggested multiple times - remove Majors from Gold Keys and have all those be Minors. Or anything else! [image] One of these is not like the others. Past a certain point - which most people in guilds who can do legendary… > [@Dear devs, could you please give us runic traitstones in legendary tasks instead of minors?](http://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dear-devs-could-you-please-give-us-runic-traitstones-in-legendary-tasks-instead-of-minors/22000): > > Dear @Sirrian @Nimhain and anyone else who is in a position to change these things that will listen. Would it be possible to switch out minor traitstones from the legendary task loot table with runic traitstones? I know this isn’t an issue for most players, as many are in guilds that do not finish legendary tasks. But, for those of us who do, I think getting runic traitstones instead of minors would be a welcome change. We get plenty of minor stones now with all the gold keys we get weekly. I ha… ---
**Author:** ![Eika](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/eika/32/103088_2.png) [@Eika](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Eika)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 7:39pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/petition-for-the-removal-of-minor-traitstones-from-legendary-tasks/29275/39 "2017-08-24T19:39:45Z")
> [@Lyya](#): > > I’m pretty sure the inclusion of Minor Traitstones was due to the avalanche of threads at a time where Minors (specifically Minor Fires) were scarce at endgame. However, my thread that you quoted was never about wanting minors in Legendary tasks, it is also a very old thread. I was never in for this idea. ---
**Author:** ![Vangor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/vangor/32/31404_2.png) [@Vangor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Vangor)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/petition-for-the-removal-of-minor-traitstones-from-legendary-tasks/29275/40 "2017-08-24T20:03:33Z")
> [@Lyya](#): > > I think the need for them has been drastically reduced (though that’s partially due to their ubiquity in Legendary tasks, so yay it worked?) I would say the reason for the change was they changed the way traitstones were given in pvp. Before the color(s) of the stone was determined by home kingdom of opponent and since most ppl set whitehelm the minors were always yellow.once they changed it to a random color everyone started getting more variety which fixed the scarcity problem of minor everything except yellow. So i would say the presence of minors in LTs isnt the hero even if it was intended to be. ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2017, 8:19pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/petition-for-the-removal-of-minor-traitstones-from-legendary-tasks/29275/41 "2017-08-24T20:19:08Z")
That’s true for Fires specifically, yes. I think that corrected for the imbalance of Minors by color – that and the fact that they stopped making all Red/Xxx troops take Minor Fire. Overall, though, it was certainly true that Minors were scarce relative to need, especially when compared to Majors. None of this is to disagree with your view (I agree with you, in fact); it’s just to provide perspective on how we got to where we are. [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/petition-for-the-removal-of-minor-traitstones-from-legendary-tasks/29275.md?page=1) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/petition-for-the-removal-of-minor-traitstones-from-legendary-tasks/29275.md?page=3)