# Old troops rework suggestion **URL:** \ **Category:** Feature Requests and Game feedback\ **Created:** [November 1, 2016, 11:18pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/old-troops-rework-suggestion/14712 "2016-11-01T23:18:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mr.Strange](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mr.strange/32/2762_2.png) [@Mr.Strange](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mr.Strange)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 5:55pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/old-troops-rework-suggestion/14712/21 "2016-11-02T17:55:14Z")
> [@killerman3333](#): > > What about dokkalfar? Sure he summons a giant spider but after 20 magic his magic just goes to waste. That’s not unusual - all summoning troops are the same in that respect. Dokkalfar does a BIT of spread damage as well, but I’d love to see something like this: “Deal [Magic] damage divided randomly across all troops. Summon a Giant Spider with full mana, and gain an extra turn.” This allows him to cast Giant Spider immediately, and refill his mana. But it only works when you have the empty slot. Giant Spider also summons, so it’s hard to combo it unless you actively eat your own troops, or some such. ---
**Author:** ![DonBoba](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/donboba/32/25457_2.png) [@DonBoba](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/DonBoba)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/old-troops-rework-suggestion/14712/22 "2016-11-02T17:56:59Z")
Summoning troops with full mana should never happen. . But resurrecting your dead troops? That’s spell material for new mythic 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Strange](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mr.strange/32/2762_2.png) [@Mr.Strange](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mr.Strange)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 6:12pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/old-troops-rework-suggestion/14712/23 "2016-11-02T18:12:40Z")
> [@DonBoba](#): > > Summoning troops with full mana should never happen. . > But resurrecting your dead troops? That’s spell material for new mythic 😉 Why do you think it shouldn’t happen? Doesn’t seem like a problem to me… Functionally, it just splits the spell into two parts, where the second part only happens if there is an empty slot. Seems like a very reasonable ability. ---
**Author:** ![killerman3333](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/killerman3333/32/4068_2.png) [@killerman3333](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/killerman3333)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 6:48pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/old-troops-rework-suggestion/14712/24 "2016-11-02T18:48:39Z")
> [@Mr.Strange](#): > > “Deal [Magic] damage divided randomly across all troops. Summon a Giant Spider with full mana, and gain an extra turn.” So far as i can tell, it seems like it is rare for a summon troop to have two parts of its spell work off of its own magic. For such a change should his mana cost be altered? It would definitely put dokkalfar back on the play list, and in cases of emergency, can help rebuild the team if needed. ---
**Author:** ![Zuboki](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/zuboki/32/28558_2.png) [@Zuboki](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Zuboki)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 7:42pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/old-troops-rework-suggestion/14712/25 "2016-11-02T19:42:59Z")
> [@Mr.Strange](#): > > “Deal [Magic] damage divided randomly across all troops. Summon a Giant Spider with full mana, and gain an extra turn.” > > This allows him to cast Giant Spider immediately, and refill his mana. But it only works when you have the empty slot. Giant Spider also summons, so it’s hard to combo it unless you actively eat your own troops, or some such. Ugh, no no no! The giant spider can cast even without an empty slot to summon into, and the Full Mana Giant Spider doesn’t only refill Dokk, but could fuel something else to keep him alive, like Lady A. Even without the damage, Dokk would be a neverending mana and spider fountain, impossible to deal with unless you could take out 2 troops in a turn. ---
**Author:** ![HKdirewolf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/hkdirewolf/32/21614_2.png) [@HKdirewolf](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/HKdirewolf)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 7:50pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/old-troops-rework-suggestion/14712/26 "2016-11-02T19:50:34Z")
@killerman3333’s wet dream. This is what he wants! ---
**Author:** ![agentronin316](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/agentronin316/32/9921_2.png) [@agentronin316](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/agentronin316)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 8:21pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/old-troops-rework-suggestion/14712/27 "2016-11-02T20:21:23Z")
> [@Zuboki](#): > > > [@Mr.Strange](#): > > > > “Deal [Magic] damage divided randomly across all troops. Summon a Giant Spider with full mana, and gain an extra turn.” > > > > This allows him to cast Giant Spider immediately, and refill his mana. **But it only works when you have the empty slot.** Giant Spider also summons, so it’s hard to combo it unless you actively eat your own troops, or some such. > > Ugh, no no no! The giant spider can cast even without an empty slot to summon into, and the Full Mana Giant Spider doesn’t only refill Dokk, but could fuel something else to keep him alive, like Lady A. Even without the damage, Dokk would be a neverending mana and spider fountain, impossible to deal with unless you could take out 2 troops in a turn. I think he’s talking about the empty slot to summon Giant Spider into. Also, emphasis added. ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 8:22pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/old-troops-rework-suggestion/14712/28 "2016-11-02T20:22:32Z")
![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/0/0ceee024e2263d955ef4cb365b43ab5e47343b40.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Strange](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mr.strange/32/2762_2.png) [@Mr.Strange](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mr.Strange)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 8:25pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/old-troops-rework-suggestion/14712/29 "2016-11-02T20:25:14Z")
> [@Zuboki](#): > > Ugh, no no no! The giant spider can cast even without an empty slot to summon into, and the Full Mana Giant Spider doesn’t only refill Dokk, but could fuel something else to keep him alive, like Lady A. Even without the damage, Dokk would be a neverending mana and spider fountain, impossible to deal with unless you could take out 2 troops in a turn. Oh, it’s not nearly that bad. Compare to Raven - [Magic +3] damage to a targeted enemy, plus a conditional extra turn & mana gain. For a casting cost of 10! Dokk is a flat 10 damage spread randomly, plus a summon. My change suggestions just amount to “if the summon was successful, refill Dokkalfar’s mana” - hardly a game-breaker. Yes, you can cast him again the next turn, but you’ve already summoned 2 new troops, so it’s almost certain you can’t actually summon a second spider, and thus can’t do the mana refill trick. And Dokk costs 13 to boot. ---
**Author:** ![Sidousai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/sidousai/32/604_2.png) [@Sidousai](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Sidousai)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 8:55pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/old-troops-rework-suggestion/14712/30 "2016-11-02T20:55:32Z")
> [@DonBoba](#): > > Dire wolf - 6 mana to place hunter mark? Maybe instead of giving him an extra turn that he doesn’t need make his spell say: if there is already a hunter mark on the troop deal damage equal to 1:1 magic scaling. I think the problem is Hunter Mark itself. I would be perfectly happy if Hunter Mark also pulls the target into the 1st position as well… which makes a lot of intuitive sense imo… ---
**Author:** ![DonBoba](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/donboba/32/25457_2.png) [@DonBoba](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/DonBoba)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 9:04pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/old-troops-rework-suggestion/14712/31 "2016-11-02T21:04:53Z")
Mhm 1234567890. . ---
**Author:** ![Studs](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/studs/32/3498_2.png) [@Studs](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Studs)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 3:53am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/old-troops-rework-suggestion/14712/32 "2016-11-03T03:53:55Z")
Let’s not forget this thread while we’re referencing old threads! > [@Other teams that need synergy vs. Goblins](http://community.gemsofwar.com/t/other-teams-that-need-synergy-vs-goblins/6091): > > To continue the conversation from the other thread without completely hijacking that thread: Goblins have great synergy, the general consensus is that they may or may not need done rebalancing, but that their inherent synergy is what makes them so likeable. Other teams also have decent synergy, wildfolk and fey, although not quite as good. If they were going to improve the base set of troop that exist to enhance synergy what would you like to see? It has been mentioned that elves or dark elv… ---
**Author:** ![killerman3333](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/killerman3333/32/4068_2.png) [@killerman3333](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/killerman3333)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 9:04am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/old-troops-rework-suggestion/14712/33 "2016-11-03T09:04:50Z")
Not really, i just want his split damage to scale off mana. The extra turn if able to summon giant spider WITH full mana is a bit over the top for me. I run dokkalfar, and he is my clean-up hitter like 9/10 times. I like that he summons giant spider, however it felt like he got nerfed when orb weaver was released, due in part to the way orbweaver functions. ---
**Author:** ![DonBoba](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/donboba/32/25457_2.png) [@DonBoba](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/DonBoba)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 9:31am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/old-troops-rework-suggestion/14712/34 "2016-11-03T09:31:14Z")
It’s a one from long long ago, goblins aren’t relevant anymore xD ---
**Author:** ![Fourdottwoone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/fourdottwoone/32/66655_2.png) [@Fourdottwoone](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Fourdottwoone)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 11:49am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/old-troops-rework-suggestion/14712/35 "2016-11-03T11:49:26Z")
I think we really need magic scaling on more than one spell component. Let’s take infamous Dokk as an example. Dokk currently can’t do anything but a fixed amount of damage, because scaling already goes to the level of the summoned Giant Spider. 10 damage actually used to be pretty decent ages ago, with all the kingdom bonuses you can get now it’s barely noticeable. Setting the fixed damage to a higher amount (like 25) also isn’t a solution, this would make the troop way overpowered in the earlier stages of the game where you don’t have any significant bonuses yet. Something like [5 + magic] feels somewhat fine, the engine just doesn’t support it yet. Same applies to quite a few other troops. The fixed component tends to be either too strong for early game or too weak for late game. ---
**Author:** ![Spherix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/spherix/32/2388_2.png) [@Spherix](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Spherix)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 12:03pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/old-troops-rework-suggestion/14712/36 "2016-11-03T12:03:54Z")
> [@Fourdottwoone](#): > > the engine just doesn’t support it yet. That’s patently false. There are at least two troops with multiple effects that scale off Magic I can think of just off hand, and there’s probably more: [Wight](http://ashtender.com/gems/troops/6037) and [Nobend Brothers](http://ashtender.com/gems/troops/6204). ---
**Author:** ![DonBoba](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/donboba/32/25457_2.png) [@DonBoba](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/DonBoba)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 12:07pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/old-troops-rework-suggestion/14712/37 "2016-11-03T12:07:19Z")
Avina, banshee etc. ---
**Author:** ![Annaerith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/annaerith/32/13840_2.png) [@Annaerith](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Annaerith)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 12:56pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/old-troops-rework-suggestion/14712/38 "2016-11-03T12:56:49Z")
> [@killerman3333](#): > > What about dokkalfar? Sure he summons a giant spider but after 20 magic his magic just goes to waste. extra magic doesnt go to waste as we now have troops that can drop your magic stats (dracos, desease/pestilence - what was it called?) ---
**Author:** ![Fourdottwoone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/fourdottwoone/32/66655_2.png) [@Fourdottwoone](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Fourdottwoone)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 1:22pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/old-troops-rework-suggestion/14712/39 "2016-11-03T13:22:42Z")
> [@Spherix](#): > > That’s patently false. There are at least two troops with multiple effects that scale off Magic I can think of just off hand, and there’s probably more: Wight and Nobend Brothers. Wait, that’s from the most recent patch, right? Interesting, looks like there might have been some changes under the hood that allow more customizing. I wonder how flexible it really is, the changed troops all seem to use the same single formula for each component (e.g. [Magic + 1] for anything Wight related). ---
**Author:** ![Gortus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/gortus/32/9265_2.png) [@Gortus](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Gortus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 1:46pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/old-troops-rework-suggestion/14712/40 "2016-11-03T13:46:38Z")
Herald of Chaos has scaled two effects off magic for as long as I can remember. Don’t know if any troops that do such things use different formulas, maybe Lyya can dig it up. [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/old-troops-rework-suggestion/14712.md?page=1) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/old-troops-rework-suggestion/14712.md?page=3)