# New 4.7 achievement is bad-design **URL:** \ **Category:** Feature Requests and Game feedback\ **Created:** [December 11, 2019, 11:37am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/new-4-7-achievement-is-bad-design/59915 "2019-12-11T11:37:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Slypenslyde](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/slypenslyde/32/30373_2.png) [@Slypenslyde](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Slypenslyde)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 1:51pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/new-4-7-achievement-is-bad-design/59915/92 "2019-12-19T13:51:00Z")
> [@FeelTheBern](#): > > If I can’t criticize the critics, then u can’t criticize me, or they can’t criticize in the first place Then allow me to provide some criticism: “You have a personal issue of some kind of completion anxiety” is not criticism, it’s an insult. It’s also questionable grammar. I sense you’ll immediately try to branch into a discussion about whether calling someone anxious is an insult but please, control yourself. You could attempt to imply that in the grand scheme, one achievement doesn’t matter, and you don’t think 100% completion is a valid playstyle. People will disagree with that, but it _is_ a valid view and it’s about the _topic_, not the _person_. Even if you really think it’s right, when you argue about the _person_ it’s an ad hominem argument. Those are always fallacious because they are _not on-topic_ outside of the rare conversation that is literally about a player. So spend more time criticizing the topic, not trying to attach negative labels to the people who support it. By “more” I mean “all of it”. Criticizing people instead of the topic means you can’t think of an argument. It’s OK to express that by not speaking. Some other criticisms I think you need to hear: - Not all things have bright sides. Some things are just bad. - Not all things have dark sides. Some things are just good. - Insisting that all people somehow balance discussion of positives and negatives is an indirect attempt to silence discussion. It indicates a lack of having an argument. - One way to balance the discussion without silencing an argument is to provide the positives you think are being overlooked yourself. - “I think it is good” is not a very good argument. It’s the essay written by Ralphie in _A Christmas Story_. To move people, you need a conclusion _and_ facts to support it. ---
**Author:** ![shadyady360](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8491ac/32.png) [@shadyady360](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/shadyady360)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 1:51pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/new-4-7-achievement-is-bad-design/59915/93 "2019-12-19T13:51:13Z")
I don’t mind the grind, heck anybody that does shouldn’t be playing gems of war, but what irritates me about this achievement is that you will be adding medals to some troops that you will likely never ever use. Grinding for Dawnbringer meant you got a great weapon. Grinding Power Orbs for Zuul meant you got an amazing troop. Grinding for 100 gold elite troops means you get the achievement only but in game a big fat zero (well OK may 25 or so troops as gold elite will be great, but the other 75? That’s why IMO this should be changed to 25 troops instead of 100)… ---
**Author:** ![Slypenslyde](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/slypenslyde/32/30373_2.png) [@Slypenslyde](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Slypenslyde)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 1:59pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/new-4-7-achievement-is-bad-design/59915/94 "2019-12-19T13:59:06Z")
Also I think @Thevc makes a valid point in, “Gems can never be completed” and I agree. From that perspective this achievement’s acceptable. But I feel like this is the kind of achievement that’d look “fun” next year. Maybe my discussion is that “fun” of grinding is subjective based on how much progress one feels overall. I actually had some fun grinding for Dawnbringer because I could measure my progress over time. I could count down to the day it was likely to get it and while it was a long goal, I had a lot of shorter goals between me and that. I think people would have responded better to this achievement if multiples had been released for 10, 20, 50, 70, and 100 troops. Those are, incidentally, the class XP levels. They also meet the criteria for F2P addiction mechanics that are being somewhat referenced in this thread: you give the player a low-hanging goal so they get a rush. You put the next goal a little further away. Soon, the goal is very far away, but they want that rush again. Anybody who makes it to 50 troops is probably not upset about seeing that through to 100. But when the first step is “100”, it doesn’t look like a staircase. It’s just a pedestal. That’s my main point: achievements like this aren’t evil, but there is a natural pace to gaming and this one completely ignores game design. ---
**Author:** ![Ashasekayi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/ashasekayi/32/61090_2.png) [@Ashasekayi](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Ashasekayi)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 2:03pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/new-4-7-achievement-is-bad-design/59915/95 "2019-12-19T14:03:28Z")
> [@shadyady360](#): > > Grinding for 100 gold elite troops means you get the achievement only but in game a big fat zero (well OK may 25 or so troops as gold elite will be great, but the other 75? That’s why IMO this should be changed to 25 troops instead of 100)… I can understand your point on this one. However, they will have some value towards kingdom star progression in the future at least. [The devs said in a stream that elite levels will probably play some part in future kingdom stars.] So, getting elite levels on 100 common troops isn’t completely useless. But yea, it isn’t as shiny as getting DB or Zuul. ---
**Author:** ![shadyady360](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8491ac/32.png) [@shadyady360](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/shadyady360)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 3:37pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/new-4-7-achievement-is-bad-design/59915/96 "2019-12-19T15:37:11Z")
> [@Ashasekayi](#): > > > Grinding for 100 gold elite troops means you get the achievement only but in game a big fat zero (well OK may 25 or so troops as gold elite will be great, but the other 75? That’s why IMO this should be changed to 25 troops instead of 100)… > > I can understand your point on this one. However, they will have some value towards kingdom star progression in the future at least. [The devs said in a stream that elite levels will probably play some part in future kingdom stars.] So, getting elite levels on 100 common troops isn’t completely useless. But yea, it isn’t as shiny as getting DB or Zuul. I didn’t know that, but I pray that you are wrong lol! If that is the case then at least it will have a benefit towards Kingdom progression. At least if you were 100% guaranteed to add a medal to a troop then it wouldn’t feel so bad, as you could add common/rare medals etc to mythic troops, in the safe knowledge that your time grinding hasn’t been wasted. Knowing that if RNG goes against you then your medal and time just vanishes in a puff of smoke , now that hurts. ---
**Author:** ![DJBast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c2a13f/32.png) [@DJBast](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/DJBast)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 7:25pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/new-4-7-achievement-is-bad-design/59915/97 "2019-12-19T19:25:03Z")
Longtime player and have spent quite a bit of money on this game like many others have, but as someone that tries to get all achievements in games, I’m not even bothering with this one and may just call it a day on this game. What an unnecessarily grindy and rewardless “achievement”. Will also boycott future games from this company as I’m not gonna chance them doing something like this again. It’s been fun! ---
**Author:** ![Thevc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a8b319/32.png) [@Thevc](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Thevc)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 7:28pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/new-4-7-achievement-is-bad-design/59915/98 "2019-12-19T19:28:00Z")
I am giving an optimistic outlook on this one. Medals aren’t important once you’ve got 3 of each (i haven’t btw) but their “boosts” are more like “pffts😲” on all my best troops. So I will let it flow and bag useless medal after another useless medal on useless troop after useful troop until it pops on my screen without me actually knowing I was even close. A rare “yeah” moment that you weren’t quite expecting. ---
**Author:** ![War\_Father](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dfb087/32.png) [@War\_Father](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/War_Father)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 8:31pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/new-4-7-achievement-is-bad-design/59915/99 "2019-12-19T20:31:19Z")
I’m also in the camp that 100 fully medal troops is way to grind of a trophy. I would defiantly love to have it at 25 or even 50. As the last trophy I need to do, for me it feels like i’m not achieving much trying to grind to it. I think a nice compromise would to break it up into multiple trophies. One at 25, 50, 100. Just so it feels like your making progress on the way to finishing it. Otherwise medaling so many useless troops all the way to 100… jezz, i don’t know if I have it in me. Is there any chance of this being rethought? Change it to less over all or stepping progress? Signed, Fan of game ---
**Author:** ![Graeme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@Graeme](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Graeme)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 9:03pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/new-4-7-achievement-is-bad-design/59915/100 "2019-12-19T21:03:27Z")
Do trophies/achievements (in any game) ever get changed retrospectively? I pay little attention to these kind of things so have no idea. Was just wondering if it could even happen. ---
**Author:** ![Zeddicus2017](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/zeddicus2017/32/44872_2.png) [@Zeddicus2017](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Zeddicus2017)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 9:08pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/new-4-7-achievement-is-bad-design/59915/101 "2019-12-19T21:08:51Z")
> [@BelethS](#): > > Is it THAT hard to get the achievment actually? > 100 common troops, 100 cedric medals, done They don’t want to play the game, so they complain instead. It’s hard not to read some of the angry posts and not respond. I do my best, because trying to be positive means you are an evil degenerate round these parts. But to answer your question, no, it’s not hard at all to get that achievement, it takes playtime though, and a lot of these people don’t enjoy that — they consider playing the game grindy. ---
**Author:** ![Zeddicus2017](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/zeddicus2017/32/44872_2.png) [@Zeddicus2017](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Zeddicus2017)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 9:12pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/new-4-7-achievement-is-bad-design/59915/102 "2019-12-19T21:12:01Z")
> [@DJBast](#): > > Longtime player and have spent quite a bit of money on this game like many others have, but as someone that tries to get all achievements in games, I’m not even bothering with this one and may just call it a day on this game. What an unnecessarily grindy and rewardless “achievement”. Will also boycott future games from this company as I’m not gonna chance them doing something like this again. It’s been fun! Trophies, gold, tokens, medals, and a chance at lots of gnomes — rewardless? What rewards would interest you? ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/b/4/b4e81a4dc98be0790bf2922ae20c6ef3de1da31a.jpeg) ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/b/1/b12ab9e4cd856095f09b154a4ed6bc51d15c6e77.jpeg) I’ve already completed the achievement, if I chose to use my medals… ---
**Author:** ![Fleg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5e9695/32.png) [@Fleg](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Fleg)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 9:31pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/new-4-7-achievement-is-bad-design/59915/103 "2019-12-19T21:31:02Z")
No you haven’t. At a minimum it takes 300 medals to fully upgrade 100 troops. ---
**Author:** ![Casper1875](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/casper1875/32/21441_2.png) [@Casper1875](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Casper1875)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 9:35pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/new-4-7-achievement-is-bad-design/59915/104 "2019-12-19T21:35:23Z")
> [@Thevc](#): > > This game pressures players to engage when they may not want to and that is purely down to design. And that design is psychologically unhealthy. Sirrian talks nonsense about healthy playstyle because his game perpetuates more and more time commitment with each and every update. The fun has gone; the focus is cash and they have no concept of healthy play. The 2020 introduction of gaming disorder as a recognised illness should definitely recognise gems of war as one of the most unhealthy games propagating this condition. I wish it was possible to like a post way more than once - this, this & a thousand times this! ---
**Author:** ![Zeddicus2017](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/zeddicus2017/32/44872_2.png) [@Zeddicus2017](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Zeddicus2017)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 9:36pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/new-4-7-achievement-is-bad-design/59915/105 "2019-12-19T21:36:04Z")
> [@Fleg](#): > > No you haven’t. At a minimum it takes 300 medals to fully upgrade 100 troops. Even common troops? But I am on my way and patch hasn’t been out that long, so if it takes 300, I’ll have it within two months just farming explore, especially on gnome weekends. ---
**Author:** ![covertmuffin123](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5daacb/32.png) [@covertmuffin123](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/covertmuffin123)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 11:01pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/new-4-7-achievement-is-bad-design/59915/106 "2019-12-19T23:01:32Z")
> [@Zeddicus2017](#): > > Even common troops? Yes, it’s a minimum of 3 medals per troop. Plus a total of 6 million souls. You’re a little over a third of the way there. Can you estimate how many hours you’ve spent on explore to get there? I’m genuinely curious, not trying to score points in any debate here. ---
**Author:** ![TheIdleOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@TheIdleOne](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TheIdleOne)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 11:05pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/new-4-7-achievement-is-bad-design/59915/107 "2019-12-19T23:05:31Z")
> [@Zeddicus2017](#): > > But I am on my way and patch hasn’t been out that long, so if it takes 300, The fun part of that 300 is that some of those medals will be Nysha, Anu, and Aranaea. So unless you’re willing to really sabotage yourself, its going to be more than 300. ---
**Author:** ![DJBast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c2a13f/32.png) [@DJBast](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/DJBast)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 12:55am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/new-4-7-achievement-is-bad-design/59915/109 "2019-12-20T00:55:36Z")
The achievement is the reward. I don’t care about gold, trophies, souls, medals, gnomes, or really even newer troops to be honest. I’ve done about everything there is to do in the game, so I just come in and take care of new achievements when they get added, but just mindless grinding for 100 hours or more is not only not fun, but boring af. I’ve got all the others, so I’ll put in the effort and have before, but the requirements for this single achievement are ridiculous and I’ll never understand why companies think mindless grinding for a single achievement in their game (Kill 500,000 zombies in Kill All Zombies for example) is a fun task for it’s players. ---
**Author:** ![Slypenslyde](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/slypenslyde/32/30373_2.png) [@Slypenslyde](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Slypenslyde)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 12:58am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/new-4-7-achievement-is-bad-design/59915/110 "2019-12-20T00:58:31Z")
> [@DJBast](#): > > I’ll never understand why companies think mindless grinding for a single achievement in their game (Kill 500,000 zombies in Kill All Zombies for example) is a fun task for it’s players. Because you come back and do it every time they add an achievement, even when it isn’t appealing to you, and part of their performance report is showing that they have encouraged players who have checked out to come back and check in. It’s not about you having fun. It’s about them getting paid. You don’t necessarily have to put a dollar in the machine to make money for them. You just have to be a person with 100% achievements that encourages someone _else_ to spend. ---
**Author:** ![DJBast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c2a13f/32.png) [@DJBast](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/DJBast)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 1:47am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/new-4-7-achievement-is-bad-design/59915/111 "2019-12-20T01:47:24Z")
But we’re not all coming back for these types of achievements. Like others have said 25 or so would have been fine, but the math has been done and you’re looking at over 100+ hours for just one achievement that is nothing but a continuous grind of the same game mode pretty much. How does me and others not playing (or paying) encourage others play and pay? I’m not the brightest out there, but that literally makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![Slypenslyde](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/slypenslyde/32/30373_2.png) [@Slypenslyde](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Slypenslyde)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 2:31am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/new-4-7-achievement-is-bad-design/59915/112 "2019-12-20T02:31:38Z")
> [@DJBast](#): > > I’ve got all the others, so I’ll put in the effort and have before, > [@DJBast](#): > > But we’re not all coming back for these types of achievements. One of these things is not like the others. [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/new-4-7-achievement-is-bad-design/59915.md?page=4) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/new-4-7-achievement-is-bad-design/59915.md?page=6)