Nerf Dragon's Eye already!


#81

Giving DE a mana cost of 25 or so might also help to alleviate the issues. It’s way too cheap to cast now.


#82

25 mana makes it useless. Plus would make delve even harder than it is now. This over what a pvp loss every once in a blue moon


#83

I have started skipping all Dragon eye matches in PvP. I will do a 1 or 2 trophy match rather than face this rediculous weapon one more time. It needs a much higher mana cost or be changed to a 50/50 chance to transform. The mana cost should be doubled at least. There have been many times I face it and it fills up with one match 4 on first turn.


#84

Idea: barriered troop should be immune to transform spell.


#85

No it doesn’t.


#86

Still is a 100% chance to transform even on baby dragons who are already baby dragons! Don’t forget it also generates mana…


#87

I beat it all the time…How about Flam/Yao taking out 2 troops in 2 seconds flat. I think people need to understand that you are not meant to win 100% of your battles. I looked at some people running Flam/Yao and they are winning as much on Def as they are losing but you want to complain about a weapon that has already been Nerfed and lots of people won’t be able to go very high in factions if it’s Nerfed again. Factions at high level take forever as it is so enough of the constant complaining. If it is too hard just skip the battle. Good grief,


#88

So you say you win all the time but you aren’t meant to win all the time? Hypocritical at it’s finest. That’s like saying my Lady Morana shouldn’t ever land an instant kill unless it’s over 50% chance but the enemies at less than 20%.

Can’t deny Yao Guai being a major problem but against dragon’s eye, all it needs is one match and use it to get rid of your Yao Guai (It always goes for the main source of damage first it seems) and bam, the team is butchered and if it gets active again (which will happen far too quickly) then most likely Titania or Flammifier will be gone. That is not fun to go against. Still think it is fair? Warlord 4, give them delve stats and try to win before you realize the major problem.

The only troop with immunity are the two dooms but they are incredibly underwhelming and nothing else has immunity. Other troops that have a transform, it’s usually restricted or is a % chance like Night Hag, Spooky Imp, Toadstool. All of them don’t have a guaranteed chance unlike Dragon’s Eye.

That would be like giving Bulette’s a guaranteed devour on using their ability with no restrictions or letting Great Maw eat devour immune troops. The closest troop even remotely close to Dragon’s Eye’s BS is High King Irongut but at least you can counter him with devour immune troops… you can’t with Dragon’s Eye.

Other people’s suggestions make more sense. Make it fail on dragons as one or only works on stunned troops as another. Having it fail on barrier troops is another or even just making it a flat 50% chance instead of guaranteed.


#89

What you conveniently forget to mention is that it requires a specific starting board to achieve 2 kills in 2 seconds. No extra turns for Tai-Pan? Tough luck. Can’t fill Flammrimmer? Tough luck. Flamrimmer misses? Tough luck. No extra turns for Yao cast? Tough luck. And what about that situation where you are forced to use Tai-Pan on the first turn even though you’d prefer not to or else enemy Stormbrew will flood the board with browns? Tough luck. What about when you can’t get steamrolling on the first turn, enemy gets necessary brown match and when the board comes back to you again you already have three Baby Dragons on your side? Tough luck.

Yao teams have their advantages (and I use one for myself), but they’re not panacea, they’re not the perfect cure. Maybe I just don’t know how to play, but my win rate against Dragon Eye teams does not come that close to 100% as yours.

Anyhow, I don’t mind that much. It’s only a PvP. I managed to survive those pesky transformers in latest Guild Wars, good for me. And I haven’t used DE in delves (have three of them at level 500) I don’t even remember for how long - there are other good options…to nerf or not to nerf? Hard for me to say.


#90

There are also two facets here and everyone attacks the weaker strawman.

I feel like “Dragon’s Eye wins too much” is what people consistently argue against, because it’s easy to argue against. I also think that, given some time, I’ve decided I don’t agree with it. Some teams do lose more consistently to DE teams, but overall if you throw multiple teams at PvP you’ll also find DE loses consistently to a lot too. This is the “I beat it all the time” defense and it stinks. Stop making the argument so we can call out the attack as off-topic.

Then there is “Dragon’s Eye is not fun to lose to.” This has thicker legs, I think.

Flammifer/YG was brought up, and it’s a fair team. If it gets a really good head start, it can turn 1 or 2 kill. That really good head start happens at best 1/10 matches. In the average case, if your team is fast and if you hog the red mana and are careful with brown placement, you aren’t going to have more trouble with this than any other meta team. The “average” loss to YG/Flammifer feels like you still could’ve won if you made a different decision at some point. Players like this, even if it’s objectively a lie.

Put shorter: you can look at the team and pick quite a few hard counters to it. They all work with about the same success rate we expect any PvP team to have.

Dragon’s Eye has no immediate counter. It is extraordinarily consistent with a turn 2-4 cast. That cast has a fairly consistent record of following up with a 2nd cast. Unless your team is 4 Dooms that means you’ve got a very high chance of having effectively lost 2 troops by turn 2-4. You can’t “steal the browns” because a 4-match is usually sufficient for the team to cast, and it tends to have 2 generators.

So when you lose to Dragon’s Eye, you always feel like it was luck. You can’t name a way your team should’ve been set up to do better. You either get the board that lets you kill it or you don’t.

That’s not fun. Yes, it’s true for any team with some %. The argument is DE has a much higher % than others. We’ve seen this complaint leveled at Justice League, Goblins, Wisp/Mab, Kraken/Mab, Nyxbringer, and Divines. Almost all of those teams have had entire versions worth of changes to game mechanics to correct them. Dragon’s Eye will be the next, no matter how hard you complain it doesn’t bother you.

High tolerance for RNG is abnormal. Most people like to believe the illusion of skill. Games fail when they don’t create that illusion.


#91

Killed by the weapon now… gee, thanks game for not letting me be able to hit the Dragon’s Eye because of that STUPID barrier on brown trait. That with Dragon’s Eye is the most infuriating and unfair thing to go against. There is no easy counter compared to mana generators needing a specific board like, Mercy is useless if there is no real purples next to yellows but deadly if the board works for her.

Dragon’s Eye though? Mana generation with guaranteed transform? Get that crap out of here. PvP is so unbalanced as it is, especially since hero classes got class traits. Titan is by far the worst offender.


#92

Like barrier isn’t powerful enough.


#93

My thoughts on this is that dragon’s eye is currently op, but it is a symptom of the bigger issue. Transform was drastically changed in response to delves and what was a massive nerf in delves for players made the enemies stronger. It was a triple whammy as not only the level change but devs somehow really fudged up and made it so they don’t have traits now either.

So now what used to be a lvl 12 giant toad, wraith, baby dragon, etc. with traits is lvl 10 with no traits and gets weaker if hit again. The problem isn’t dragon’s eye, it’s frankly sloppiness of devs who wanted to fix a weapon that helped make a tough game mode easier and ended up taking the fun out of other game modes. As @Slypenslyde said, this is another example now on defense that has no real counter other than win faster than them, which translates to “win turn one or you suck”.

These types of teams came up due to devs having unintended consequences with not enough testing or thought behind it. I’m being harsh here as even though they recently acknowledged it, this should not have happened. This is a symptom of the cause that the devs don’t playtest enough, they don’t understand the meta outside charts, they don’t see why having no counters to an rng mechanic is bad, they don’t see how a hard counter mythic fails so bad, especially since the hard counter has a harder counter in that “countered” type. Either someone like @Tacet needs to be a meta counsultant, or as was suggested before, every day a dev should log in to a regular account and try to play as an endgamer/midgamer for at least a couple hours.


#94

Yeah, I don’t think there’s a very simple fix to this. It’s a rat’s nest of intertwined problems, and “fixing” any one of them in isolation’s likely to create some other problem.


#95

It is so the dev team to fix one thing and transform the meta.


#96

I had to scroll up two posts and see that it was, in fact, you. It was a multi-paragraph post with no horrible puns whatsoever.


#97

When I am disappointed with the devs I don’t always pun. When the suncrest mythic comes out, even though I can make many puns, I will refuse to do so if it comes out like it is now.


#98


#99

It’s like the Verizon commercial. “Would you accept your favorite thing for free?”

Would a troop that has 100% chance of transforming a level 20 player troop to level 10 baby dragon without traits be a horrible idea?

Play time shouldn’t be required to have common sense.


#100

haha, that babies to the right! :rofl::joy: