# Need a Defense 101 thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Gameplay Chat (PC/Mobile)\ **Created:** [September 22, 2016, 3:40pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/need-a-defense-101-thread/12767 "2016-09-22T15:40:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 3:40pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/need-a-defense-101-thread/12767/1 "2016-09-22T15:40:36Z")
I’m nearing level 900 and have yet to find a team that is decent in defend. It seems like the ceiling is about 40% win rate, no matter what you throw in there. I don’t have any of the Horsemen but I do have a good number of fully-traited legendaries. Any tips? ---
**Author:** ![Tacet](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/tacet/32/35_2.png) [@Tacet](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Tacet)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 3:49pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/need-a-defense-101-thread/12767/2 "2016-09-22T15:49:24Z")
40% is about the average for late game. There really isn’t anything that will break that by too much simply because of everyone’s high win rate at that high a level. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 3:52pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/need-a-defense-101-thread/12767/3 "2016-09-22T15:52:58Z")
What team’s do you think are most consistent in that case? ---
**Author:** ![Tacet](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/tacet/32/35_2.png) [@Tacet](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Tacet)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 3:56pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/need-a-defense-101-thread/12767/4 "2016-09-22T15:56:43Z")
Most of them do require some of the horsemen, usually Famine. Without any of the horsemen, I would say Khorvash - Amira - Spirit Fox - Manticore or nearly any combination with Sorcerer + Creeping Death. Any team that can spam mana drain right now tends to have a decent chance at securing a win. Also, while on this topic, I might as well make that today’s video. xD ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 4:02pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/need-a-defense-101-thread/12767/5 "2016-09-22T16:02:05Z")
That would be sweet. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Studs](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/studs/32/3498_2.png) [@Studs](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Studs)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 4:39pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/need-a-defense-101-thread/12767/6 "2016-09-22T16:39:34Z")
Please no! Don’t encourage the obnoxious mana drain teams! ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 4:42pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/need-a-defense-101-thread/12767/7 "2016-09-22T16:42:37Z")
Well if mana drain is the only way to get consistent wins in Defense, I guess I won’t be getting consistent wins. 😉 Emperor Khorvash is my favorite troop in the game but I’m philosophically opposed to using him on defense. The only time he ever ends up on Defense is if I clear out my teams and accidentally leave my Invade team on Defense. I use Spirit Fox for cleanup on my True Damage quick Explore team but I don’t use her in PVP anymore. I’ve stopped using Manticore altogether. ---
**Author:** ![Tacet](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/tacet/32/35_2.png) [@Tacet](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Tacet)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 4:50pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/need-a-defense-101-thread/12767/8 "2016-09-22T16:50:15Z")
> [@Studs](#): > > Please no! Don’t encourage the obnoxious mana drain teams! The only thing that will stop that is if they add mana drain immunity and a trait that causes true damage to hit armor first. ---
**Author:** ![Studs](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/studs/32/3498_2.png) [@Studs](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Studs)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 4:51pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/need-a-defense-101-thread/12767/9 "2016-09-22T16:51:32Z")
True. But you can also make a “good non-mana drain defense teams” video. Or a “good anti-mana drain teams” video. Be a part of the solution! ---
**Author:** ![Tacet](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/tacet/32/35_2.png) [@Tacet](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Tacet)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 4:52pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/need-a-defense-101-thread/12767/10 "2016-09-22T16:52:05Z")
> [@Studs](#): > > Or a “good anti-mana drain teams” video. You mean mana drain them before they mana drain you? xD ---
**Author:** ![Isis\_Kitty](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/isis_kitty/32/9189_2.png) [@Isis\_Kitty](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Isis_Kitty)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 4:59pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/need-a-defense-101-thread/12767/11 "2016-09-22T16:59:32Z")
> [@Tacet](#): > > You mean mana drain them before they mana drain you? xD This used to be my mantra. ---
**Author:** ![Studs](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/studs/32/3498_2.png) [@Studs](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Studs)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 5:00pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/need-a-defense-101-thread/12767/12 "2016-09-22T17:00:27Z")
Not _exactly_ what I had in mind. But I suppose no “anti-mana drain” video would be complete without a mana drain team. Makes me think “good counters to the current meta” would be a nice video/series. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 5:02pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/need-a-defense-101-thread/12767/13 "2016-09-22T17:02:29Z")
I’m interested in builds that can overcome mana drain, due to spam or sheer speed. For example, I built a team recently that, after watching the AI, I thought for sure would produce decent results. Jarl / IK / Giant Spider / Succubus It fills extremely fast, spams gems all over the board (including skulls), and has a final troop that both mana drains and death marks. It was 0-12 before I finally pulled it. ---
**Author:** ![CatalinM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cab0a1/32.png) [@CatalinM](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/CatalinM)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 5:22pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/need-a-defense-101-thread/12767/14 "2016-09-22T17:22:48Z")
> [@Update 2.0.1 Preview](http://community.gemsofwar.com/t/update-2-0-1-preview/9427/69): > > I can’t imagine us ever doing that. There was talk at one stage of having a trait that made true damage on a troop act like regular damage, but the idea never really took. ---
**Author:** ![Mithran](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mithran/32/18064_2.png) [@Mithran](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mithran)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 6:03pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/need-a-defense-101-thread/12767/15 "2016-09-22T18:03:43Z")
All things considered, it really doesn’t matter. I’m running a Black Beast defense team that is getting about a 20% win rate over the last two weeks and over 50% during the beginning of the weeks when everyone is playing PvP (probably just from lower players taking the option and getting overwhelmed, I have quite a few 5\* but dont have any guild statue bonuses). I just try to change it every once in a while so it doesn’t get too stale. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 6:08pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/need-a-defense-101-thread/12767/16 "2016-09-22T18:08:16Z")
Yeah, that’s how I’m kind of looking at it at this point. I’ve got one main team I like to run Invades with. After that, I’m experimenting with a half dozen teams just to see what fun stuff I can come up with. Keeps it fresh. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 8:50pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/need-a-defense-101-thread/12767/17 "2016-09-26T20:50:41Z")
So I decided to experiment instead of looking for a “good” defense team. I setup a new defense team for this week named “Token Defense” just to see what the AI would do with it: Vampire’s Banner (red/purple) Mythic Herdmaster \*\*\* Mythic Naga Queen \*\*\* Mythic Siren \*\*\* Mythic Night Terror \*\*\* Right now, it’s winning at a 20% clip despite being fairly underpowered compared to what is attacking it.