# Multiple times I've seen wrong Mana # awarded
**URL:** https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/multiple-times-ive-seen-wrong-mana-awarded/20412
**Category:** Support
**Created:** [February 22, 2017, 2:26pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/multiple-times-ive-seen-wrong-mana-awarded/20412 "2017-02-22T14:26:02Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@KrudlerTheHorse](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/KrudlerTheHorse)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2017, 2:26pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/multiple-times-ive-seen-wrong-mana-awarded/20412/1 "2017-02-22T14:26:02Z")
**What you were expecting to happen, and what actually happened?**
Expected to get 10 Mana for 5-match, plus additional mana surrounding 5-match. Was actually awarded 10.
**What are the steps to make it happen again?**
Play for 30 hours and watch for it? đ
**Do you have any screenshots or video you want to share with us so we can see the problem? Attach them to your post!**
Descriptive video, actual video available per developer feedback.
[![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82_mYM-Dcn4)
##EDIT: I canât believe it⌠it JUST happened again, not 1 minute after posting this video. This time I got awarded 11 mana from a match that should have given me 14.
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### Author:  [@Stan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Stan)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2017, 5:10pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/multiple-times-ive-seen-wrong-mana-awarded/20412/2 "2017-02-22T17:10:25Z")
Thatâs some nice telestrator work, man.
One nice feature of the PS4 is that it constantly runs a trailing 15 minute video stream so if you ever see or do something that you want to record, you just hit the âshareâ button, choose âsave video clipâ and it immediately saves the last 15 minutes of gameplay. From that, you can trim and edit it down to just what you want to keep. I take it Steam doesnât have a similar feature?
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### Author:  [@KrudlerTheHorse](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/KrudlerTheHorse)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2017, 5:16pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/multiple-times-ive-seen-wrong-mana-awarded/20412/3 "2017-02-22T17:16:54Z")
All things are possible, but I have auto-record and such (ShadowPlay) turned off because I need perfect control. And my hardware is sliding into obscurity⌠time to start begging for donations I fear.
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### Author:  [@Stan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Stan)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2017, 5:18pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/multiple-times-ive-seen-wrong-mana-awarded/20412/4 "2017-02-22T17:18:47Z")
Time to upgrade to a Commodore 128?
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### Author:  [@KrudlerTheHorse](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/KrudlerTheHorse)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2017, 5:20pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/multiple-times-ive-seen-wrong-mana-awarded/20412/5 "2017-02-22T17:20:09Z")
I was thinking of dropping the cabbage and upgrading my PET to a VIC 20
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### Author:  [@Stan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Stan)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2017, 5:28pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/multiple-times-ive-seen-wrong-mana-awarded/20412/6 "2017-02-22T17:28:50Z")
I can still remember the excitement when we dropped an 80 column card into our Apple IIeâŚ
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### Author:  [@yonizaf](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/yonizaf)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2017, 6:14pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/multiple-times-ive-seen-wrong-mana-awarded/20412/7 "2017-02-22T18:14:54Z")
Hereâs a video that may show what you reported (every Mercy/Alchemist cast). For reference, itâs using Dragon Banner.
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxR90cb0XAI)
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### Author:  [@KrudlerTheHorse](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/KrudlerTheHorse)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/multiple-times-ive-seen-wrong-mana-awarded/20412/8 "2017-02-22T18:43:51Z")
Nice. There was one there around 1:12 where you should have got at minimum 38 but probably 40+ and you were awarded 33 (three 10 matches plus three 1 bonuses from the banner, just what Iâm talking about !! )
The times I observed it in my games, my casts were more isolated and therefore the resulting masses of Mana were easier to decipher, but even still I think your video is crystal clear that something is going wacky.
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### Author:  [@Stan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Stan)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2017, 6:56pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/multiple-times-ive-seen-wrong-mana-awarded/20412/9 "2017-02-22T18:56:12Z")
The first cast was dead-on though, right? Thereâs a single match 3 in the bottom left and the complex match in the bottom right. I counted that one as a 5-match, with 5 bonus gems. Altogether, thatâs (3+1) + (5x2 + 5 + 1) = 20, which is what was awarded before the cascade.
I agree with your count on the one at 1:12: I get a 5-match at the top left with 2 bonus gems (5x2 + 2 + 1 = 13), a 5-match at the bottom left with 3 bonus gems (5x2 + 3 + 1 = 14), and a 5-match at the top right (5x2+1 = 11), for a total of 38, but only 33 awarded.
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### Author:  [@Zelarith](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Zelarith)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2017, 6:58pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/multiple-times-ive-seen-wrong-mana-awarded/20412/10 "2017-02-22T18:58:15Z")
Mana gathering always bugged me, most likely because not only does it not work as I would expect it too, but it also isnât working as itâs meant to !
Letâs take a look at Yozinafâs video to proove itâŚ
* * *
0:12 - Mercy cast her spell \> he made 2 match-3 (one procing surge) and one match 6.
Iâd think he would get (3_2)+1 + (6_2)+1 + 3+1 = 24 mana :
((3 match \* 2 from mana surge) + 1 from banner) + ((6 match \* 2 from mana surge) + 1 from banner) + (3 match + 1 from banner)
He only got 12 + 8 = 20 mana, meaning :
- 5+ matches are counted as surging 5 gem match, not less, not more (although, I remember reading â5+ matches give twice the manaâ in game)
- Banners (and traits) only work once per cascade (and not once per match as one could think)
* * *
0:29 - His Hellcat spell confirms that second hypothesis with a 7-gem match boosted by Alchemistâs trait (+1) and his banner (+2). Thatâd be 13 mana (and not 17). His alchemist was at 2/10 and his Gard at 15/24.
He ended up at 10/10 and 20/24 wich confirms he got 13 mana.
* * *
0:48 - Here comes a bugged one : his Alchemist cast results in a wooping 17-gem match and a mana surging 3 gem match. Thatâd be 5_2 + 3_2 +1 = 17 mana.
He actually got 12+16 = 28 mana.
If you look closely, on the right side of the 17-match is written âExtra Turn +4 goldâ and on the left side of the same group of gem is written âMana Surge +5goldâ
So, somehow, the 17-match was accounted as a 5+ gem match and a 4 gem match?
But thatâd be 5_2 + 4 +3_2 +1 = 21 mana, itâs still not right.
* * *
Iâm not going further on the video, the proof is here already.
It just doesnât adds up, this thing has been flwaed for quite a while now, and I canât make sense out of it, sometimes we get more, sometimes we get lessâŚ
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### Author:  [@Stan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Stan)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2017, 7:05pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/multiple-times-ive-seen-wrong-mana-awarded/20412/11 "2017-02-22T19:05:07Z")
Your math and mine are a little differentâŚ
On the 0:12 match, you assumed that the 3-match procâd a mana surge, and I didnât. More significant for the formula is what you did with the â6 matchâ. There was a pretty big discussion on this a few months ago in a console thread where Sirrian actually chimed in. If I recall correctly (and Iâll look for the post later), he was saying that anything beyond a 5-match counts as a 5-match, with each additional gem adding one to the total mana. So a 6-match is not actually 6x2, but 5x2+1.
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### Author:  [@KrudlerTheHorse](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/KrudlerTheHorse)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/multiple-times-ive-seen-wrong-mana-awarded/20412/12 "2017-02-22T19:09:59Z")
> [@Stan](#):
>
> The first cast was dead-on though, right?
For some reason your video started right at the 1:12 cast so I thought thatâs what you meant.
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### Author:  [@Zelarith](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Zelarith)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2017, 7:14pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/multiple-times-ive-seen-wrong-mana-awarded/20412/13 "2017-02-22T19:14:34Z")
Yeah, I was comparing how I was expecting it to work versus how it actually went, then I interpreted it as the following rules :
> [@Zelarith](#):
>
> He only got 12 + 8 = 20 mana, meaning :
>
> - 5+ matches are counted as surging 5 gem match, not less, not more (although, I remember reading â5+ matches give twice the manaâ in game)
> - Banners (and traits) only work once per cascade (and not once per match as one could think)
However, I just tried to check the second hypothesis in one of my games, and I can say that **traits** proc once per **gem-match** , not once per **cascade**. Still gotta check for banners since my analysis of Yozinafâs video got me thinking that **banners** only **proc once per cascade**.
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### Author:  [@Stan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Stan)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2017, 7:18pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/multiple-times-ive-seen-wrong-mana-awarded/20412/14 "2017-02-22T19:18:16Z")
When you say âcascadeâ in that context, do you mean _simultaneous_ matches (as weâre seeing from transforms in the video) or _sequential_ matches (caused by falling gems after a match or transform occurs and gems are cleared)?
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### Author:  [@Zelarith](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Zelarith)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2017, 7:23pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/multiple-times-ive-seen-wrong-mana-awarded/20412/15 "2017-02-22T19:23:04Z")
Cascades is actually the moment when the gems drops.
So when I say âit procs once per cascadeâ, I mean âit only procs once for simultaneous matches (but can proc several times in sequential matches)â
EDIT : well, in my testsâŚ
This stuff really is full of bug.
One time I only got 6 mana from 2 surging match-3 with a +1 bannerâŚ
But banners also seems to proc once per match, not once per cascade., so Yozinafâs first (Mercy) cast was also bugged.
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### Author:  [@Stan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Stan)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2017, 7:36pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/multiple-times-ive-seen-wrong-mana-awarded/20412/16 "2017-02-22T19:36:33Z")
Hereâs the post from Sirrian explaining the formula:
> [@How is this 31+ Mana?](http://community.gemsofwar.com/t/how-is-this-31-mana/11250/3):
>
> I just ran some tests on PC/Mobile to test how it works. Complex patterns like this are obviously open to a bit of interpretation, so people may disagree with how we do this but here is OUR interpretation of that match. WITHOUT BANNER BONUSES You get a 5-match for the L-shaped piece, which gives a mana surge The other bit is counted as a 3-match (not a 4 match, it wonât use any already-used gem unless it HAS to) Thatâs a total of 8 Mana, doubled for the surge which gives 16 Mana (confirmed âŚ
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### Author:  [@KrudlerTheHorse](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/KrudlerTheHorse)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2017, 7:44pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/multiple-times-ive-seen-wrong-mana-awarded/20412/17 "2017-02-22T19:44:48Z")
So per that post, things are not working as they should and the example on the right in my mockup should be giving more than the 10 (plus banner) it is currently giving. Or is my brain on the outs again lol
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### Author:  [@yonizaf](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/yonizaf)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2017, 7:58pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/multiple-times-ive-seen-wrong-mana-awarded/20412/18 "2017-02-22T19:58:25Z")
> [@Zelarith](#):
>
> got me thinking that banners only proc once per cascade.
> [@Stan](#):
>
> he was saying that anything beyond a 5-match counts as a 5-match, with each additional gem adding one to the total mana. So a 6-match is not actually 6x2, but 5x2+1.
I can disprove both with a single screenshot.
The following includes 2 ânormalâ matches - i.e not in a strange bugged shape, but the standard 3 match and L shaped match. The 3 match did not surge, so 3+1. The L shape is 6 gems long, so (6\*2)+1. I got 17 mana, so both check out.
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### Author:  [@Stan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Stan)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/multiple-times-ive-seen-wrong-mana-awarded/20412/19 "2017-02-22T20:01:20Z")
Love how you dropped the âif I recall correctlyâ from my quote. Obviously, I didnât. đ
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### Author:  [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/multiple-times-ive-seen-wrong-mana-awarded/20412/20 "2017-02-22T20:01:39Z")
I see weird stuff like this all the time. Phantom extra turns on a match 3, incorrect mana calculations. I figured it wasnât even worth reporting since itâs so sporadic. So thanks for capturing at least part of it on video.
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