# More Fraud from Gems of War **URL:** \ **Category:** Bug Reports\ **Created:** [October 7, 2022, 7:47am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/more-fraud-from-gems-of-war/77265 "2022-10-07T07:47:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![awryan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/awryan/32/74650_2.png) [@awryan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/awryan)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 9:47am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/more-fraud-from-gems-of-war/77265/21 "2022-10-09T09:47:09Z")
> [@Stratelier](#): > > I noticed that too, but it’s irrelevant to the (per-stone) drop rate. After all, a chest dropping x2 troops 50% of the time is NOT the same as a chest dropping x1 troop 100% of the time. Honestly think about the results in your opinion (and evidently @Dust_Angel agrees with you). Does it make any sense that an epic troop would be just as likely to be crafted for the same exact cost as 3 common troops? > [@Stratelier](#): > > Then I’d like to see hard data across a larger sample set (especially than can be counted _on just one hand_). People already did it with Hoard Mimic encounters and Dungeon layouts Luckily you aren’t the judge of this matter since bug reports aren’t supposed to be decided by a jury of your peers. The issue is either bugged in the same vein that Dungeons were. Or… The devs are knowingly misleading players on purpose and are just going to attract even more heat and loss of credibility due to it. Clearly even if I did 100 gem dragon troops and got same results then you would still spin the data in hopes that you “won” an argument with a stranger on the Internet. I don’t care about winning here. I do enough of that in real life on a daily basis. What I care about is the game attracting players and not scamming them. ---
**Author:** ![Stratelier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/977dab/32.png) [@Stratelier](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Stratelier)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 10:09pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/more-fraud-from-gems-of-war/77265/22 "2022-10-09T22:09:56Z")
> [@awryan](#): > > Clearly even if I did 100 gem dragon troops and got same results then you would still spin the data in hopes that you “won” an argument with a stranger on the Internet. Ahem, you do not know that. The fewer people we have assuming bad faith, the better the discussion can be. > [@awryan](#): > > Does it make any sense that an epic troop would be just as likely to be crafted for the same exact cost as 3 common troops? That is precisely what the data from Dust\_Angel’s experiment showed. ---
**Author:** ![WishKiller](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/wishkiller/32/36914_2.png) [@WishKiller](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/WishKiller)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2023, 9:51am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/more-fraud-from-gems-of-war/77265/23 "2023-01-24T09:51:23Z")
Those are exactly the 2 I am missing as well… The devs are doing this on purpose … I have no doubt @Kafka @OminousGMan @Jeto … Please prove me wrong… PROVE… Not some double speak… Why are you guys blocking those 2 Dragons?.. I have 4 each of the others. ---
**Author:** ![Stratelier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/977dab/32.png) [@Stratelier](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Stratelier)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2023, 12:40am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/more-fraud-from-gems-of-war/77265/24 "2023-01-25T00:40:14Z")
> [@WishKiller](#): > > The devs are doing this on purpose … I want to say “you prove it first” but everybody knows emotions are impervious to logic… Yes, having a lopsided distribution of Gem Dragons is obviously weird, but it tends to be really, _really_ difficult to “prove” if an RNG is being unfair. And the last voluntary data collection about Gem Dragons actually documented a collectively fair distribution between all six. ---
**Author:** ![Tabu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/tabu/32/63708_2.png) [@Tabu](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Tabu)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2023, 1:31am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/more-fraud-from-gems-of-war/77265/25 "2023-01-25T01:31:18Z")
“Apps offering “loot boxes” or other mechanisms that provide randomized virtual items for purchase must disclose the odds of receiving each type of item to customers prior to purchase.” They sell dragonite, there are no odds showing the drop rate of each dragon before you hatch. Therefore they are breaking the Apple tos. With that said the loophole is “type” they are all the same type technically.This should show the level of scum involved. ---
**Author:** ![JohnE](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/johne/32/90856_2.png) [@JohnE](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/JohnE)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2023, 1:37pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/more-fraud-from-gems-of-war/77265/26 "2023-01-25T13:37:04Z")
My last hold out wasn’t either of those dragons. My last hold out was Amethialas, Just because the RNG sucks doesn’t equal fraud. ---
**Author:** ![devnull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c89c15/32.png) [@devnull](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/devnull)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2023, 5:10pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/more-fraud-from-gems-of-war/77265/27 "2023-01-25T17:10:47Z")
Took me just 8 Dragons to get all 6 (this time i was lucky) have two reds and two blue. Took me ages to get that hoard mimik thou. Bad luck is not always fraud. For the chests/stones: did you ever expect a epic troop being as common as a white one? ---
**Author:** ![Kafka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/kafka/32/33529_2.png) [@Kafka](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Kafka)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 4:22am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/more-fraud-from-gems-of-war/77265/28 "2023-01-27T04:22:29Z")
Linking my reply from a feedback thread about this here as it seems like the most relevant way to respond to this thread also: > [@"dragon eggs"](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dragon-eggs/78710/14): > > I’ve moved this thread to feedback so it doesn’t get lost (it was in the “uncategorised” list) - I also changed the title. Please don’t write to support about this. We can’t do anything with support tickets that have feedback in them other than what we are already doing on the forum - which is passing the feedback on. But the added downside to receiving feedback support tickets is that they take time away from helping players with account and technical issues. I hear ya out here loud and clear. … ---
**Author:** ![PythagorasGamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e0b2c6/32.png) [@PythagorasGamer](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/PythagorasGamer)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 7:10pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/more-fraud-from-gems-of-war/77265/29 "2023-01-27T19:10:25Z")
Someone doesnt understand randomness in real life. It’s a 1/6 chance for each color (they’ve said so), but that doesn’t mean it turns out that way every time. Roll a die. That’s a 1 in 6 chance, just like these dragons. Do it 5 times, and it’s possible to get one 1, one 2, and three 3s. That doesnt mean the die is rigged, it means that’s what you rolled. Flip a coin. You won’t always get heads, then tails, then heads, and so on. It will vary, sometimes you get 3 heads in a row. If you roll a die 1000 times, you will get very close to 1/6 for each of the options. Not always though. It might come out to 0.166666666 for 2s, but 0.164 for 3s. That’s how randomness works. There was a thread in the forums where someone was collecting data on which dragons came up. It was pretty close to 1/6, before the person got bored with it or whatever, and they stopped. ---
**Author:** ![PythagorasGamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e0b2c6/32.png) [@PythagorasGamer](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/PythagorasGamer)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 7:14pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/more-fraud-from-gems-of-war/77265/30 "2023-01-27T19:14:48Z")
It’s 1/6. They’ve said so. It’s not rocket science. It’s simple probability. ---
**Author:** ![Voq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/voq/32/54089_2.png) [@Voq](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Voq)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 7:35pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/more-fraud-from-gems-of-war/77265/31 "2023-01-27T19:35:08Z")
Have they actually disclosed the odds? Kafka’s reply in the other thread only stated it’s “not bugged”. It _implies_ the dragons all have equal chance but I don’t recall them ever disclosing the actual odds or mechanics. We had a [thread](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/gem-dragon-eggs-fair-roll-or-rigged/77104) several months ago asking for confirmation and never received it. I’m of the belief that it’s simply 1/6 for each dragon, but I’m curious where they stated it. I definitely could have missed it if they did. ---
**Author:** ![PythagorasGamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e0b2c6/32.png) [@PythagorasGamer](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/PythagorasGamer)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 7:48pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/more-fraud-from-gems-of-war/77265/32 "2023-01-27T19:48:37Z")
I dont know. You’d have to search for it, if you want to find it. I’m pretty sure it was when the dragons were first introduced. ---
**Author:** ![PythagorasGamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e0b2c6/32.png) [@PythagorasGamer](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/PythagorasGamer)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 10:48pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/more-fraud-from-gems-of-war/77265/33 "2023-01-27T22:48:09Z")
> [@Gem Dragon Community Drop Rates](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/gem-dragon-community-drop-rates/77297): > > With the amount of drop rate inconsistencies we as a community have seen over the years, most recently being the Dungeon fiasco, we have begun to question a lot of supposedly “random” parts of the game. @awryan made a thread ([More Fraud from Gems of War](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/more-fraud-from-gems-of-war/77265)) discussing whether or not Gem Dragon drops are truly random. This thread will serve as a collection of community data to test the theory. Please post your Gem Dragon data here, whether that be screenshots of how many of each dragon you have, c… This is the post I mentioned earlier, where it was averaging out to about 1/6 before the person stopped updating it and doing the math. ---
**Author:** ![Graeme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@Graeme](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Graeme)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 11:24pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/more-fraud-from-gems-of-war/77265/34 "2023-01-27T23:24:46Z")
> [@6.5 Update: Dragon's Path](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/6-5-update-dragons-path/76669/1): > > We have added new Soulforge Recipes that use Dragonite to be crafted. > > - One of these recipes is the Gem Dragon Egg. This recipe will craft either Sapphirax, Emeraldrin, Rubirath, Topasarth, Amethialas or Garnetaerlin. The actual weightings of each dragon were never precisely clarified as far as I know but it looks like they are equal from data gathered. Seems to be mostly the unluckiest people questioning whether this is correct. Haven’t seen a single person who got all 6 dragons before most others complaining. Funny that. ---
**Author:** ![Tabu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/tabu/32/63708_2.png) [@Tabu](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Tabu)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2023, 11:53pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/more-fraud-from-gems-of-war/77265/35 "2023-01-27T23:53:13Z")
I bet you also think orbs are weighted equally. 🤣 “They said” Do you know how many times they have said something that turned out to be a lie after the community tested? There are 6 Dragons, at least 2 of them are weighted differently than the remaining 4. Just like orbs. Blue and green orbs do not drop at the same rate. Same goes for the dragons. ---
**Author:** ![NerdieBirdie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/nerdiebirdie/32/103793_2.png) [@NerdieBirdie](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/NerdieBirdie)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2023, 12:11am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/more-fraud-from-gems-of-war/77265/36 "2023-01-28T00:11:02Z")
> [@Tabu](#): > > There are 6 Dragons, at least 2 of them are weighted differently than the remaining 4. Can you back this up with data though? If you only look at a few people’s data (i.e. the people who are complaining) you will of course have biased results. I am by no means saying the data I gathered in the thread linked above is 100% accurate, and if you really believe the rates are skewed, then by all means gather some data. But from the 150+ data points I gathered, the results are very evenly spread. ---
**Author:** ![PythagorasGamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e0b2c6/32.png) [@PythagorasGamer](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/PythagorasGamer)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2023, 12:50am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/more-fraud-from-gems-of-war/77265/37 "2023-01-28T00:50:57Z")
The dragon eggs are weighted equally. Where are you getting rhe idea that they arent? The drop rates for orbs are clearly published. > **[Chaos Orb Drop Rates](https://gemsofwar.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002174556-Chaos-Orb-Drop-Rates#:~:text=15%25%20Chance%20of%20an%20Orb,a%20Lesser%20Orb%20of%20Glory)** > > Orbs of Chaos reward you with a random Orb. Some Orbs are much rarer than others. The tables below list the current Orb of Chaos and Major Orb of Chaos drop rates. > Note: If something has a 1% chanc... ---
**Author:** ![Tabu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/tabu/32/63708_2.png) [@Tabu](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Tabu)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2023, 2:24am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/more-fraud-from-gems-of-war/77265/38 "2023-01-28T02:24:30Z")
No one has data, that is the point. It wouldn’t help anyhow, they manipulate the rates as needed. They are varying the weights based on the economy. So 2 of those dragons at least are always more rare than the others. It’s what sells those daily dragonite deals. Did you know casinos in the US may change the rate of a machines payout at any time. Even live? Do you think a game studio governed by literally no one isn’t? Its not a conspiracy theory, it’s literally economics. ---
**Author:** ![PythagorasGamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e0b2c6/32.png) [@PythagorasGamer](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/PythagorasGamer)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2023, 3:31am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/more-fraud-from-gems-of-war/77265/39 "2023-01-28T03:31:52Z")
Do you know how crazy that sounds? If you look at the data NerdieBirdie collected, you’d see that you’re wrong. No offense to the devs, but I don’t think they’re that sophisticated. They’ve had this visual issue going on for weeks, and they can’t figure out how to fix that. If you think they are so fraudulent, maybe you should find another game. ---
**Author:** ![Stratelier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/977dab/32.png) [@Stratelier](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Stratelier)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2023, 6:26am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/more-fraud-from-gems-of-war/77265/40 "2023-01-28T06:26:52Z")
> [@Tabu](#): > > They are varying the weights based on the economy. Since you are making a positive claim, feel free to support it with ACTUAL data, i.e. sourced or collected from the game itself. > [@Tabu](#): > > Its not a conspiracy theory Definition, please – is it “I believe my hypothesis to be true despite a lack of literally any supporting evidence and/or hard facts to the contrary” ? > [@Tabu](#): > > Did you know casinos in the US may change the rate of a machines payout at any time. False equivalence. There’s a number of additional disclosure requirements and regulations attached to that ability, _specifically_ to verify that the casino industry isn’t unfairly cheating people out of money. There IS admittedly a lack of comparable, default oversight when it comes to videogame publishers, but again, if you are the one making a positive claim then you are the one who should be providing hard data to support it. My debating skills may be seriously out of practice, but I know there’s a general rule of “claims without evidence can be _dismissed without evidence_”. [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/more-fraud-from-gems-of-war/77265.md?page=1) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/more-fraud-from-gems-of-war/77265.md?page=3)