Maugrim Woods Rework... Rework... Rework (!)

New game mode, Wack-a-wolf!

Yep - I remember when we were testing for that one. I didn’t test it myself, but I trust the guy involved to have followed the steps, and believe him when he said he’d tested it many times and not been able to repro it.
I think we’ve seen it 2-3 times total in thousands of test games here in the office, and never when we’re looking for it.

We’re pretty sure there’s a timing issue involved, when situations like this occur, and have a good idea what’s causing it. For the tech folk out there, there is a poorly implemented state machine in the spell system that relies on timers rather hard-and-fast state changes to advance its state. It went unnoticed in the initial release, but popped up when spell effects became more complex.
A fix is tricky, and has a little risk involved that it will cause a worse problem. So, after the fix, we need a LOT of QA on the spell system. If it were a simple fix, we would have done it a while back, but as I mentioned above, we’re going to make a big attempt to address this one for 2.2.

Actually - believe it or not - it is very closely related to many of the on-death problems with traits, though some of those are a separate issue.


Very interesting. This explains many of the odd bugs I’ve seen.

Are these network latency issues or related to the device?

I ask because I’ve given up on using any of the “Move” weapons, because they are all bugged for me. Both for those that move the hero, and ones that move enemies. I’d love to use them, but they almost never do what the language on the weapon says.

i love it :smiley: moar necro pease :grinning:

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It has to do with the scripting language. It’s probably a racing condition that becomes more obvious as effects get more complicated. I bet they aren’t seeing it because they are probably simulating games without the graphics / sound effects being displayed.

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^ This
(Race Condition for anyone who’s interested in nerdy code stuff and doesn’t know what it is)

We do actually play with sound on & off, but different hardware configurations, cause different latencies on different events/actions in the game, and all of a sudden you’ve got yourself into an untested state.

I’ve seen some terrible things over the years where engineers try to fix problems by adding in delays, and (time permitting) I usually slap them in the ear and tell them not to do it. :imp: This one got away from us though.


So a funny thing about testing… There’s a lot more to it then people think. I thought I’d post an insiders point of view on someone who’s tested software for almost 20 years.

So there’s a test plan. In the test plan, there are test cases. A test case is a list of tests that test each feature of the game. For instance, a test case could be titled “Mana from Gems” and it would include tests to ensure when you match 3 gems, you get the right mana. 3 gems with a mana surge, get the right mana. 4 gems, right mana. Another test would be make sure 4 gems never get a mana surge. 5 gems, correct mana. 5 gems with mana surge, right mana. And then do it ALL again making sure your getting bonuses from troops, mastery, troop combinations, traits, and the list goes on. And all this is just testing mana. I don’t know the internals of the game, but I could probably write 100 test cases just for mana.

So with what I pointed out above, think about the amount of testing a new or reworked creature takes, I’m guessing the thing that made kerberos broken was each time one kerberos died, the other 3 all had the chance to summon a new one. Not just the one that died.

it would be interesting to know how many test cases something like this has :slight_smile:

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As a console player, as much as it sucks having to lag behind the mobile version. It’s times like this where being a console player is a boon rather then a bane.

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just little question,
i’ve already seen the change in Warg troop who summons Dire Wolf now,
but Kerberos still has Pyro trait…it still has to be changed or it’s just mine?

just little question,
i’ve already seen the change in Warg troop who summons Dire Wolf now,
but Kerberos still has Pyro trait…it still has to be changed or it’s just mine?

He has Necromancy for me.

Yeah, for the most part the troop functionality, bugs, and balance has been very good on console, as we are getting the full benefit of all the tweaking PRIOR TO deployment.

However when consoles catch up fully in 6 week to 2 months? The developers are going to have to be a bit more comprehensive in their update testing as quick patches and MS/Sony certification don’t quite mix.

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The game has two coding parts, server side (their servers) and client side like an xbox. There is also a data side that is not executable code on the Xbox side.
A coding problem with how a trait works, that’s a patch. But they can swap out traits without a patch. So a bugged trait can be replaced until it’s fixed.

And yet you got the 4x stealthy bug on consoles too. That one also happened on PC, though I guess you did skip the 25% dodge being 100%.

These are race conditions and are notiously difficult to test for in Q&A.

I’ll explain racing concepts simply.

imagine you want to fry an egg. the steps are Crack egg, put in frying pan, fry egg. You expect to follow those steps in that order. But because of the scripting language they use, each step is a separate process, so imagine three people each with one task.
Some times, cook number two puts egg in frying pan before cook one cracks the egg. It almost never happens, but for some reason outside the frying egg rules something delays one of the cooks.

Now why is peralel programing used if these errors can happen? well, imagine four hungry people wanting fried eggs. You have four frying pans, you could use one pan at a time, or four pans and cook all four eggs at once. But there is a chance you could put two eggs in one pan because two cooks drop their eggs in at the same time.

Well, how can you prevent this? Why does it happen? Thats, ummm, complicated. The short answer is limitations in the scripting language, idiosyncrasies in the language between hardware platforms, and idiosyncrasies with the hardware and hardware 's operating system.

@Sirrian approved? lol

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Another example of a race condition gone wrong is Donald Trump.


So… no more stacking necromancy? 'Cause that might be wrong.

Maybe a simpler solution would be to ban troop copies on defend teams only. And for invade you can use 4 boom bots if you like.


I really like the idea that someone else posted concerning base troop rarity and duplicate count.

Mythic/Legendary/Epic 1 (they are sort of “Named Troops” anyhow)
Ultra-Rare 2
Rare 3
Common 4

Something like that (I’m sure the count is off)


awww, but i love my 4 peasant defence team!!!

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I use Peasant, Dwarven Miner, Roc, Aziris on my defense team with Abyssal Banner.

Holdover from the time I accidentally changed my defense team to a single Peasant while ascending…

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