# Lots of Previews - Guild Wars, Crafting, Dungeons, and more! **URL:** \ **Category:** Official News\ **Created:** [July 26, 2017, 4:38pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lots-of-previews-guild-wars-crafting-dungeons-and-more/27916 "2017-07-26T16:38:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Crow](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/crow/32/44074_2.png) [@Crow](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Crow)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 10:08pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lots-of-previews-guild-wars-crafting-dungeons-and-more/27916/203 "2017-07-27T22:08:13Z")
Well in the image Sirrian provided the level determines rhe recipes you unlock and if you see it says level nine, and max level 10, and lastly 38 gems to level up. ---
**Author:** ![Darkness](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/darkness/32/2712_2.png) [@Darkness](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Darkness)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 6:16am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lots-of-previews-guild-wars-crafting-dungeons-and-more/27916/204 "2017-07-28T06:16:14Z")
OK, so I took a couple of days to consider what the preview contained, and I think I like everything @Sirrian told us (especially the dungeon mode sounds interesting), except for this little bit…: > [@Sirrian](#): > > Now since we can’t simplify the rule, we only really have one option left and that is to add some more (preferably orthogonal) rules, based on what we observe “good” players doing (and by orthogonal rule, I mean rules that are mostly independent of each other). The rules we’ve chosen are based around 4 facts: > > - Good players lose less troops (that’s the one we already have!) > - Good players win their game in less moves > - Good players have far higher mana efficiency (i.e. their mana collected, in proportion to their opponent’s mana is far higher) > - Good players have far higher damage efficiency (i.e. their damage dealt, in proportion to their opponent’s damage is far higher) This is simply horrible. The first point is fine, but the others are completely RNG dependent. Now unless the devs intended GW scoring to be completely RNG driven, these points seem to be complete opposites of measures of skill For example: Bad starting board vs good starting board → Major influence on the number of turns that you need to win a game. Badly timed AI mana surge filling up AI Famine → Does a huge load of damage and increases the number of turns you need to win the game. AI cascade from hell → increases the number of turns you need to finish the game (and probably also does damage). And the reverse is true for the human player. An awesome cascade or a lucky mana surge greatly speed things up and let you do damage (and win) much quicker. So the new scoring seems to measure “RNG LUCK” far more than “SKILL”… ☹ Do we really want a competition where luck is even more important to the GW results than it was before? ---
**Author:** ![turintuor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/turintuor/32/4097_2.png) [@turintuor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/turintuor)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 6:44am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lots-of-previews-guild-wars-crafting-dungeons-and-more/27916/205 "2017-07-28T06:44:00Z")
I have a similar conclusion. Our last hope is that you need to fulfill only one rule at the same time to have the maximum bonus. So, you have to keep 4 troops alive **OR** fewer moves, etc. But in this case, the safer way will be the first rule and so on, nothing will change (ie taking summoners to finish the battle with 4 troops each time). ---
**Author:** ![Arturo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c2a13f/32.png) [@Arturo](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Arturo)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 6:53am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lots-of-previews-guild-wars-crafting-dungeons-and-more/27916/206 "2017-07-28T06:53:27Z")
> [@Sirrian](#): > > There is one inherent problem with using moves, mana efficiency, and damage efficiency for scoring though; it can be affected by a little bit of luck. A VERY unlucky game could affect your score. And thus, the final part of this puzzle… homogenizing all the base scores to 300… So an unlucky paragon battle does NOT ruin your daily points disproportionately. The luck DOES even out in the long term, and we’ve noticed players do converge on actual efficiency numbers as you look across multiple gameplay sessions. You guys are only looking at one part of his post and leaving the part out where he talked about your concerns. It shouldn’t be about getting max score all the time, it should be about getting the highest possible score over the week. The better players will have the better average scores. ---
**Author:** ![turintuor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/turintuor/32/4097_2.png) [@turintuor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/turintuor)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 7:03am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lots-of-previews-guild-wars-crafting-dungeons-and-more/27916/207 "2017-07-28T07:03:39Z")
The joke. I prefered to ignore this part because of the “a little bit of luck” or the “VERY unlucky game could” are not really what I see during my battles… I totally disagree with him on this point. @Darkness already illustrated when the RNG will have a big impact on these new rules. But yeah you are right @Sirrian said > [@Arturo](#): > > moves, mana efficiency, **and** damage efficiency and not with a **or** … ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Nephilim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/nephilim/32/29092_2.png) [@Nephilim](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Nephilim)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 7:33am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lots-of-previews-guild-wars-crafting-dungeons-and-more/27916/208 "2017-07-28T07:33:05Z")
This is one of the best posts in this thread. Totally agree with what you’re saying here darkness. That’s my main concern too. Luck luck luck. ---
**Author:** ![Mad\_Butch](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mad_butch/32/22903_2.png) [@Mad\_Butch](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mad_Butch)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 7:56am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lots-of-previews-guild-wars-crafting-dungeons-and-more/27916/209 "2017-07-28T07:56:40Z")
> [@Arturo](#): > > It shouldn’t be about getting max score all the time, it should be about getting the highest possible score over the week. It should be about skill if you (@sirrian) are talking about “good” players. Not about luck… We ARE reading the whole post… ---
**Author:** ![Mad\_Butch](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mad_butch/32/22903_2.png) [@Mad\_Butch](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mad_Butch)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 8:02am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lots-of-previews-guild-wars-crafting-dungeons-and-more/27916/210 "2017-07-28T08:02:01Z")
Also: > [@Sirrian](#): > > Good players lose less troops (that’s the one we already have!) This sounds like this rule won’t change at all? But wouldn’t it be better, if the rule is about losing less troops, that summoning new troops doesn’t have any impact on it? For example: You start out with 100 bonus points as NotLosingTroopsBonus. Every time one of your troops dies, you lose 25 points… So if you lose 2 troops, you will have 50 points left. If you lose 4 troops, you have 0 points left. No matter how often you summoned in new troops… Otherwise I would call it: Good players have the most troops alive at the end of the battle 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Grundulum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/82dd89/32.png) [@Grundulum](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Grundulum)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 8:03am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lots-of-previews-guild-wars-crafting-dungeons-and-more/27916/211 "2017-07-28T08:03:57Z")
No way. Summoning troops provides a buffer against death mark and devour as a defense. In your system that meta comes back _strong_ because any devour/DM proc irreversibly takes points away from your opponent. ---
**Author:** ![Mad\_Butch](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mad_butch/32/22903_2.png) [@Mad\_Butch](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mad_Butch)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 8:06am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lots-of-previews-guild-wars-crafting-dungeons-and-more/27916/212 "2017-07-28T08:06:08Z")
That’s ok, but then don’t call it “good players lose less troops”. Ps. It would just change the focus of summoning in new ones, to preventing them from dying in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Grundulum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/82dd89/32.png) [@Grundulum](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Grundulum)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 8:07am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lots-of-previews-guild-wars-crafting-dungeons-and-more/27916/213 "2017-07-28T08:07:29Z")
I am going to claim you added that rewording as an edit, after I started typing my reply. I agree with the phrasing “good players have more troops alive at the end”. ---
**Author:** ![Mad\_Butch](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mad_butch/32/22903_2.png) [@Mad\_Butch](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mad_Butch)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 8:07am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lots-of-previews-guild-wars-crafting-dungeons-and-more/27916/214 "2017-07-28T08:07:54Z")
I did add the ps in the edit 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![esslee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/esslee/32/103072_2.png) [@esslee](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/esslee)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 8:07am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lots-of-previews-guild-wars-crafting-dungeons-and-more/27916/215 "2017-07-28T08:07:59Z")
I am extremely happy that there will be bonuses in addition to (or instead of) just the number of troops left such as the (least) number of moves made, amount of mana collected, and damage dealt. As someone who does not particularly enjoy wars I can’t wait to see this in action - together with the defence menu at the next major update. ---
**Author:** ![Nephilim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/nephilim/32/29092_2.png) [@Nephilim](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Nephilim)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 8:09am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lots-of-previews-guild-wars-crafting-dungeons-and-more/27916/216 "2017-07-28T08:09:11Z")
How about a ‘mulligan’? At the start of every battle you have the opportunity to jumble or reset the board BUT the ai will then go first? ---
**Author:** ![Nephilim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/nephilim/32/29092_2.png) [@Nephilim](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Nephilim)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 8:37am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lots-of-previews-guild-wars-crafting-dungeons-and-more/27916/217 "2017-07-28T08:37:13Z")
[http://community.gemsofwar.com/t/take-a-mulligan](http://community.gemsofwar.com/t/take-a-mulligan) ---
**Author:** ![Fourdottwoone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/fourdottwoone/32/66655_2.png) [@Fourdottwoone](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Fourdottwoone)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 9:01am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lots-of-previews-guild-wars-crafting-dungeons-and-more/27916/218 "2017-07-28T09:01:21Z")
> [@Dan\_ozzzy189](#): > > At the start of every battle you have the opportunity to jumble or reset the board BUT the ai will then go first? I’m having a hard time picturing a board state that would make me want the AI to get the first turn on a jumbled/reset board. Maybe if I could see ahead what that jumbled/reset board would look like, otherwise this is just asking for insult on top of injury. ---
**Author:** ![Nephilim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/nephilim/32/29092_2.png) [@Nephilim](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Nephilim)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 9:24am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lots-of-previews-guild-wars-crafting-dungeons-and-more/27916/219 "2017-07-28T09:24:50Z")
It’s optional, risk vs reward. A shit board is a shit board. ---
**Author:** ![Freakynation76](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/freakynation76/32/2936_2.png) [@Freakynation76](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Freakynation76)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 10:52am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lots-of-previews-guild-wars-crafting-dungeons-and-more/27916/220 "2017-07-28T10:52:51Z")
Why would you want to give up first turn and give a potentially better board to opponent, all this does is delay you and let the ai go first ---
**Author:** ![Royalty](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/royalty/32/1683_2.png) [@Royalty](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Royalty)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 11:15am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lots-of-previews-guild-wars-crafting-dungeons-and-more/27916/221 "2017-07-28T11:15:35Z")
Horrible UI-Style. Why change something that is good enough into something ugly? About Dungeon and Crafting. I can’t say that i like it, cause there is not enough info out yet. I’m afraid of more daily routines… Guild Wars, not many changes and those changes will not have the effect that people will enjoy Guild Wars more. We have played them too often, every day, for months. A lot of people enjoyed the rest, didn’t you noticed? Apparently that hasn’t got you to think of changing the schedule? ---
**Author:** ![Grundulum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/82dd89/32.png) [@Grundulum](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Grundulum)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2017, 11:25am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lots-of-previews-guild-wars-crafting-dungeons-and-more/27916/222 "2017-07-28T11:25:05Z")
I agree on the UI, but I have to disagree strenuously about enjoying the rest period. My guild’s activity is way, **way** down these past two weeks, and many members have explicitly said that without GW they feel like GoW is something that they can put off till tomorrow. [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lots-of-previews-guild-wars-crafting-dungeons-and-more/27916.md?page=10) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lots-of-previews-guild-wars-crafting-dungeons-and-more/27916.md?page=12)