# Lions Rampant **URL:** \ **Category:** Official News\ **Created:** [July 31, 2016, 11:02pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lions-rampant/10542 "2016-07-31T23:02:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Spherix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/spherix/32/2388_2.png) [@Spherix](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Spherix)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 12:27am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lions-rampant/10542/161 "2016-08-04T00:27:30Z")
20% chance to determine the outcome on the first turn isn’t any better than Hunger’s old 15%. Victory or loss should not depend so strongly on chance. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 12:31am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lions-rampant/10542/162 "2016-08-04T00:31:53Z")
You’re applying the Maw principle to every yellow troop. That’s faulty logic. Mercy filling Valk or Priestess first turn isn’t even CLOSE to a determined outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Spherix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/spherix/32/2388_2.png) [@Spherix](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Spherix)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 12:35am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lions-rampant/10542/163 "2016-08-04T00:35:42Z")
That’s exactly my point though. They’ll have to take the existence of Mercy into account when designing troops, knowing that they can’t give yellow troops spells that could determine the outcome of the battle on the first turn. Mercy isn’t necessarily overpowered on her own, but she restricts the design space. Either the devs will have to make themselves comfortable in that space, or they’ll have to do something about it. ---
**Author:** ![killerman3333](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/killerman3333/32/4068_2.png) [@killerman3333](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/killerman3333)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 12:43am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lions-rampant/10542/164 "2016-08-04T00:43:33Z")
> [@htismaqe](#): > > Mercy filling Valk or Priestess first turn isn’t even CLOSE to a determined outcome. That is a lengthy one. [Troops - Gems of War Database](http://ashtender.com/gems/troops?color1=yellow) These are the list of all yellow troops mercy can fill or get close to filling. I can see a infinite loop team turn one using mercy as a jumping off point (banshee or hellcat or valkyrie) but that is more of a one shot thing. There are also nice counters for turn one (borealis or cockatrice) some cards are already empowered so using mercy would be kinda redundant (dust devil or astral spirit) or go for the first turn glory kill (dwarven slayer) or go huge if possible (famine, maw, infernal king, moloch, paladin, rakshanin, shadow dragon, summer imp?, sun weaver, the silent one.) Of the above mentioned troops, which actually see play and which do not. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 1:05am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lions-rampant/10542/165 "2016-08-04T01:05:06Z")
The problem is that you’re only looking at future problems. You’re not taking into account current, somewhat-underpowered troops that depend on Mercy to compete with the shiny OP Maw’s and Mab’s. ---
**Author:** ![Spherix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/spherix/32/2388_2.png) [@Spherix](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Spherix)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 1:07am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lions-rampant/10542/166 "2016-08-04T01:07:29Z")
Once again, if there are underpowered troops that depend on Mercy, they should be buffed so that they can stand on their own. Both extremes have to be taken into account. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 1:26am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lions-rampant/10542/167 "2016-08-04T01:26:26Z")
Then we agree. 😈 ---
**Author:** ![Sirrian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/sirrian/32/35758_2.png) [@Sirrian](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Sirrian)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 1:29am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lions-rampant/10542/168 "2016-08-04T01:29:29Z")
> [@Studs](#): > > @Sirrian, care to show us one of your fancy graphs on troop usage at various player levels so the data can speak for itself? Your wish is my command! Head over here for a look at yesterday’s graphs: [PvP Troop Usage Graphs](http://community.gemsofwar.com/t/pvp-troop-usage-graphs/10681) ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 2:00am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lions-rampant/10542/169 "2016-08-04T02:00:02Z")
I have to exit this topic now, despite the fact that it has been a very engaging and worthwhile discussion - I just finished traiting Emperor Khorvash today and haven’t been home to try him out yet. 😃 I will say this: Regardless of how you feel about this particular issue, we can all rest assured that @Sirrian, @Nimhain, and the rest of the Devs have not only an established track record of listening to these arguments but an established track record of acting upon them. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 2:27am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lions-rampant/10542/170 "2016-08-04T02:27:20Z")
Off topic but all I can say is “dddaaaammmmmnnnn”… First match with my Leonis crew I survived a Black Manacles devour on the first turn and beat a TD team with traited CBat. Second match I smoked - literally destroyed - a team of Treant / BD / Maw / Gloom Leaf, all fully-traited. I’m really enjoying this team. ---
**Author:** ![Cell](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/cell/32/5524_2.png) [@Cell](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Cell)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 2:45am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lions-rampant/10542/171 "2016-08-04T02:45:13Z")
> [@Lyya](#): > > You know what might be a fun mechanic? An inverse-Moloch who damages based on missing Mana. +1 to this, I’ve thought the same thing before so I am completely on board ---
**Author:** ![utfanx2](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/utfanx2/32/525_2.png) [@utfanx2](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/utfanx2)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 6:58am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lions-rampant/10542/172 "2016-08-04T06:58:20Z")
> [@Lyya](#): > > You know what might be a fun mechanic? An inverse-Moloch who damages based on missing Mana. Mythic/Maw killer. 👍 ---
**Author:** ![DEMONorANGEL](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/demonorangel/32/41260_2.png) [@DEMONorANGEL](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/DEMONorANGEL)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 7:02am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lions-rampant/10542/173 "2016-08-04T07:02:07Z")
Op. Op op. Op. Lol [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lions-rampant/10542.md?page=8)