# Lets talk about the Orbweaver class
**URL:** https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-orbweaver-class/61351
**Category:** Gameplay Chat (PC/Mobile)
**Created:** [February 11, 2020, 9:21pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-orbweaver-class/61351 "2020-02-11T21:21:00Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Makkon](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Makkon)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2020, 8:18pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-orbweaver-class/61351/21 "2020-02-13T20:18:54Z")
You have put forth a great assessment as to the perfect storm that is the Orbweaver/Life and Death combo. I am not sure I am on board with nerfing the class or the weapon but I am not sure anymore. The lethality of Orbweaver is specifically tied to Life and Death. Without that single weapon, it is a rather mediocre class that gets almost no use. As such, I am not sure it is fair to nerf it. Perhaps changing the Familiar trait with something like Dark Ancestry might work. It would not really be a true nerf as an argument can be made that Dark Ancestry is actually better than Familiar in the vast majority of scenarios. But it would assist in toning done the L+D/Orbweaver grief so fights can no longer devolve into a spider-fest.
Regarding Life and Death, there are other threads about how and why the weapon should be nerfed. Again, I am not sure - I know many would like to see Bless or Enchant removed. I actually would try a smaller nerf to start if one is to be implemented. You indicated how the Draining weapon trait can be a major pain. Personally, there have been times I would have defeated an opposing L+D team if my front troop did not get drained by the spellcast. In fact, many of the most annoying weapons in the game either have Draining or Leeching. L+D, Norberts Turnip, and Secrets of the Crypt can all be a blight to face and all have the Draining trait. Essence of Evil and Jar of Eyes both have the Leeching trait. I would not mind seeing all of these weapons nerfed by taking those traits away. But I digress…
I believe that stripping the Draining trait from L+D could be more impactful in the whole Orbweaver/L+D meta than one might think. If that is not enough, then perhaps a larger nerf may be in order.
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### Author:  [@Voq](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Voq)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2020, 8:25pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-orbweaver-class/61351/22 "2020-02-13T20:25:50Z")
And don’t forget #12: This bug on the known issue list:
> - If multiple skull matches are made by a spell, and the opponent Troop has a Trait which summons a troop when damage is taken, if the Troop is summoned infront of the Troop targetted by the skull damage, some of the skull matches won’t do damage.
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### Author:  [@awryan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/awryan)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2020, 9:09pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-orbweaver-class/61351/23 "2020-02-13T21:09:58Z")
> [@oninowon](#):
>
> In my experience, the life and death meta team, while OP
OP means over powered. Anything that’s OP should be nerfed. Otherwise the game is out of balance.
While everything that is under powered… Should be buffed. But we don’t have enough life times to ever see that happen.
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### Author:  [@oninowon](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/oninowon)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2020, 9:46pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-orbweaver-class/61351/24 "2020-02-13T21:46:05Z")
OP ≠ broken
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### Author:  [@Mana\_Surgeon](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mana_Surgeon)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2020, 10:06pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-orbweaver-class/61351/25 "2020-02-13T22:06:11Z")
> [@Whiskeyjack](#):
>
> My ideas to make orbweaver / life and death better, in my opinion any one of these would gmcreate an Achilles heel to give attackers a better chance without ruining the fun for those using it to attack.
>
> - Any summon requires spending a soul. No souls earned in the battle? No summon.
> - Make giant spider stealthy. Then, the hero can be targeted when only stealthy troops remain.
> - Remove bless or enchant from life and death weapon
> - Spider summon changes to only proc on damage **to armor**
Some great ideas here.
1- I really like this IF the devs stop neglecting soul generation and retroactively balance the summoning troops accordingly. I would think that troops that summon on cast would all have to also generate souls (with the interesting side effect of not being able to summon on their first cast).
2 - Could work if it doesn’t mess up Giant Spider too much (it really benefits from magic link; EDIT - I had Spider’s traits all wrong, I could dig stealthy being swapped for Big or Venomous; of course then it would only be fair to offer refunds for Giant Spider, since most people will want it to not be stealthy a la Bandit).
3 - I’m against removing the bless or death marks from L&D, which define the faction. I’m 50-50 on getting rid of the enchant affix - it’s what lets L&D teams get away with subpar mana generation (somewhat uniquely), but I don’t think L&D is an overpowered weapon in general. I think the random unearned summoning is stupid and unfun to play against, not the weapon.
4 - This is a creative solution, but I worry it’s too much of a gimp of Orbweaver, a really mediocre class otherwise. The main value of summons are as a comeback mechanic, and it would be weird for Orbweaver to lose its summons at the exact time it needs them most.
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### Author:  [@Avathar](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Avathar)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2020, 11:45pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-orbweaver-class/61351/26 "2020-02-13T23:45:31Z")
> [@oninowon](#):
>
> OP ≠ broken
I think the main reason people are asking for a change of the current LnD-orbweaver combo is not because it’s unbeatable, but rather because it’s extremely unfun to play against.
I would personally favor making giant spider stealthy, as suggested above, so after a certain number of enemy kills the hero can be targeted and disposed of.
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### Author:  [@Evelyn](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Evelyn)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2020, 12:45am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-orbweaver-class/61351/27 "2020-02-14T00:45:32Z")
A suggestion I’ve made in the past is that summons should have diminishing returns on their percentage chance. Every time a trait successfully summons a troop, the chance of it working next time drops by, say, 1%.
Of course, the problem is arguably just Orbweaver’s trait, which is broken simply because 35% on damage received is insane. It completely sucks all fun out of the game. I end up having to retreat from fights that become impossible to end because of it. It shouldn’t be at the same rate as Backup. Drop it to 25% and I think major changes to summoning traits won’t even be needed.
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### Author:  [@Micio](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Micio)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2020, 11:54am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-orbweaver-class/61351/28 "2020-02-14T11:54:17Z")
Love those coming here basically saying “L2P cuz my L&D def in gw get killed”…
Maybe the L2P should learn to pick days where to put defs, my yesterday def and 1 of the champ that got similar (but she made a mistake enemy realized AFTER she was 6-1 lol).
Oh and just in case, i am not someone that got problem killing it and wanting it nerfed cuz cant beat it (proof below, last gw) STILL i recognize and have np admit that L&D + Orb is stupidly OP, while seem some others are gonna commit suicide if you take away their shiny toys (i dont have 3 nysha and my orb isnt even 100 or could do even better).
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### Author:  [@Mana\_Surgeon](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mana_Surgeon)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2020, 1:20am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-orbweaver-class/61351/29 "2020-02-15T01:20:10Z")
Some more thoughts on proposed solutions:
> [@igniteice](#):
>
> 1. Life and Death should have its damage reduced to (Magic/2)+1 instead of Magic+1. There’s no reason it needs to deal 1 true damage to two targets per Magic and heal for the same amount. That’s ridiculous.
> 2. If it’s going to keep Bless, it should lose Enchanting. And I’m not sure why it has Lightning, that doesn’t fit its theme at all, it’s just an annoying way for it to ping off Barrier on the first two enemy troops.
Such a harsh damage reduction would threaten to nerf L&D into irrelevance - there’s no way to boost the magic of elves, and the weapon itself has no damage-boosting effects. Other than possibly doing something with the enchant (which I discussed [here](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-orbweaver-class/61351/25)), I don’t think we need to change the weapon for simply being good and requiring a different strategy to approach. The game would be very boring if we weren’t allowed to have different kinds of good weapons/troops/classes.
> [@igniteice](#):
>
> - Orbweaver’s chance to summon should be more like 10-15%. Look at all the other summons in the game… Backup is 35% chance when an Ally dies. Hellsteed (Diabolist) and Wind’s Child of Sky are 25% chance when Ally casts a spell. Knowledge’s Golem Protector is 20% chance when you take damage (and Ancient Golem doesn’t loop at all!) Shadow’s Call is 20% chance when an enemy dies. Spawn of Hell is 50% chance when an enemy dies. Orbweaver is 35% chance when you take damage, and the troop it summons can summon more troops.
Since it’s a third trait, it has to be better than Golem Protector at a minimum. As I said above, I don’t think activation rates are really the solution, especially since the RNG in this game is unashamedly streaky.
That being said, I have far more of a problem with the Backup talent being 35% than I do with the Orbweaver Familiar trait. Backup randomly rewards my opponent for losing and punishes me for winning. I have control over how and when I damage my opponents, so activation of Familiar is under my control in most circumstances. (Even though I’m still being punished for doing damage, I can manage the risk, unlike with Backup.)
---
### Author:  [@ChunkyMono](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/ChunkyMono)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2020, 1:38pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-orbweaver-class/61351/30 "2020-02-15T13:38:32Z")
Thanks again @Dust_Angel. Green Day here on Xbox, and I used your team vs Goblins and Orbweaver. Except of course I swapped Titan for Frostmage. I ain’t gonna use no Blue Mana user. (Don’t tell me Titan is designed to use Blue either. I’m in denial)
It worked perfectly. Well, one cast of Glaive made two Giant Spiders, webbing both front troops, so that’s still a thing. But bunny’s blessed removed that. Much obliged.
And vs Gobbos, 1 Bandit did spawn, but unless it’s untraited, it doesn’t prevent focus fire the way a spider does. So, not buying your argument @Mana_Surgeon. But we both are entitled to our opinions, and it’s doubtful the devs would act on any proposed changes anyway.
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### Author:  [@killscreen](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/killscreen)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2020, 3:56pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-orbweaver-class/61351/31 "2020-02-15T15:56:26Z")
This happened to me as well except it was GW and it was over an hour long battle. I will never forget.
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### Author:  [@mld-81](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/mld-81)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2020, 5:17pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-orbweaver-class/61351/32 "2020-02-15T17:17:39Z")
Well there’s nothing more enjoyable than spending what feels like an eternity killing multiple troops in guild wars, 47 to be exact against the orbweaver meta yesterday just to win one battle. I was so engrossed in the battle, I completely forgot about having fun and that’s what games are suppose to be, right? 😂
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### Author:  [@Thevc](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Thevc)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2020, 5:37pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-orbweaver-class/61351/33 "2020-02-15T17:37:33Z")
Without the L&D / arachnean weaver combo this topic wouldn’t exist. So it’s not a thread about the class per se; its a combination of class/weapon/support troop. Yes it’s annoying especially in wars but I cannot support any proposals to nerf this team. Threads like this completely wrecked dragon eye. In pvp you can ignore it and remind yourself that the majority of players CHOOSE to set annoying defs like goblins and L&D. It’s not worth all this drama when it’s only relevant a few times a month in guild wars. It’s not as if it’s a big issue when nearly everyone is chasing Geoff’s carrot in explore.
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### Author:  [@mld-81](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/mld-81)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2020, 5:51pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-orbweaver-class/61351/34 "2020-02-15T17:51:47Z")
I couldn’t care less for guild wars, I was pointing out how much fun it all provides for the game 👍
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### Author:  [@Avathar](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Avathar)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2020, 9:01am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-orbweaver-class/61351/35 "2020-02-16T09:01:56Z")
> [@Thevc](#):
>
> Threads like this completely wrecked dragon eye.
I wasn’t sorry to see dragon’s eye nerfed, although I don’t think it’s a comparable situation, the dev’s actions were mainly motivated by how easy it made high-level delves.
And maybe less people would choose explore over PvP if defense teams such as the Lnd-orbweaver one were addressed more quickly, instead of letting them grief players for months/years.
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### Author:  [@Thevc](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Thevc)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2020, 11:46am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-orbweaver-class/61351/36 "2020-02-16T11:46:15Z")
The community were crying in their cornflakes about dragon eye. It got nerfed and suddenly became even more potent in pvp. More crying ensued and it was always about pvp not delve. I wanted dragon eye to remain because it’s a great leveller for new players across all game modes. But those who complained didn’t care about that. The end result was that dragon eye was castrated to an unusable state. If that’s what you want for L&D then carry on.
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### Author:  [@TheIdleOne](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TheIdleOne)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2020, 9:47pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-orbweaver-class/61351/37 "2020-02-16T21:47:04Z")
with the last 2 new hero classes not having stealthy, I’d much rather any change be done to Orbweaver and not Life and Death.
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### Author:  [@ChunkyMono](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/ChunkyMono)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2020, 5:30pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-orbweaver-class/61351/38 "2020-10-26T17:30:21Z")
> [@Dust\_Angel](#):
>
> Against today’s L&D paragon (generally, a combination of AOE & skullspam)
>
> 
I just wanted to thank you again for sharing that team. I’ve used it exclusively in GW since February. I don’t know all my results, but I do know I’ve gone 119-1 in the past four GW, so, in b5 at least, I’ve had 20 wins. (I lost on a Red Day of all days).
My alts love it too. Most of them use it in regular PvP. If it works during GW, it’ll work on regular stuff as well. In theory. Communism works, in theory. I get my political insight from Simpson, Homer J.
* * *
I believe I said earlier in this thread that I substituted Titan for Frostmage. I use Queen B instead of Gobtruffle as well. I never know when a troop is gonna need a cleanse, and my scouts don’t always accurately relay which classes use entangle.
I did learn recently that Frostmage has a Lightning Strike, same as Titan. But I find Titan’s Dust Storm helps create Brown for Forest Guardian to loop.
Some might prefer Spirit Fox or Wild Queen on Green Days. I find those troops to be too random for my liking. And, if pressed to answer a homework assignment, I prefer to let others know that I am copying their work when presenting my answer.
The team is prone to misfires. One alt had already killed the Heroine, and had the opposing Queen B down to 84 health with no mana. All 4 troops were full of mana, 3 had barrier, but there was no guaranteed extra turn, and no skull match. So, after casting my Queen B, their Queen cast 4 straight times, followed by TINA leaving just a Rabbit to die a few turns later.
If instead of using the team shown, and replacing with the Queen B Guardian Variant, Converting Blue to Yellow would fill Forest Guardian. Maybe 2 Purples drop on left and I get a lucky lightning strike. If not, AI still goes wild, wipes team, no difference. Unless ai goes stupid, matches 4 match after 4 match and then casts an empowered that does nothing. I’ve seen that happen too.
The whole game is rng. Wild Queen can backfire. Spirit Fox can backfire. Sometimes my axe gets stuck in the first Elveses skull. That is why I carry a spare. And a hammer. And a great big fracking sword.
```
I still prefer playing with and vs empowered troops.
I still prefer playing with and vs Doom Skull Weapons.
I still prefer playing with and vs Goblins and Wildfolk.
I still prefer playing with and vs Elf, Fey, and Blue Mana using Classes.
I still prefer playing with and vs LnD, RD, and any and all other weapons.
```
I like having options, not restrictions.
They said all an Orc had to do, was ride down to that Elveses camp, and swear as such that he’d be loyal to the Alliance, and he could pick up his satchel, and return to his home. Well, I ain’t doin it. Saruman may have had to surrender, but we sure as hell didn’t. We moving up to bracket 4 next wars.
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### Author:  [@Eika](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Eika)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2020, 5:54pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-orbweaver-class/61351/39 "2020-10-26T17:54:48Z")
wow, oh man, did 8 months go this fast. I felt like I made the thread last week or so…
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### Author:  [@TheCuillin](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TheCuillin)
#### Post date: [October 28, 2020, 10:26pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-orbweaver-class/61351/40 "2020-10-28T22:26:15Z")
I just don’t get it with you guys. It’s a never ending cesspit of disharmony and yet you continue to play to a ludicrous extent and spend cash in the vain belief that this will preserve your 100% collection of troops. If you don’t realise the company philosophy by now then the addiction you face is way beyond your comprehension or potential recovery. Most players on here need to wake up and realise that every dollar they ever spent, every hour they ever spent, would somehow bring them to complete the game. It was not and never will happen. Your addiction simply accelerates new unsatisfying content to thwart every hour of your consciousness
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