# Is the meta at its worst state ever? **URL:** \ **Category:** Uncategorized\ **Created:** [September 27, 2017, 11:31am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-meta-at-its-worst-state-ever/30848 "2017-09-27T11:31:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![turintuor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/turintuor/32/4097_2.png) [@turintuor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/turintuor)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 7:52am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-meta-at-its-worst-state-ever/30848/41 "2017-09-28T07:52:55Z")
Devs believed that the “no mana surge on 4+match” is enough to solve the Wisp issue… ---
**Author:** ![Darkness](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/darkness/32/2712_2.png) [@Darkness](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Darkness)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 9:27am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-meta-at-its-worst-state-ever/30848/42 "2017-09-28T09:27:38Z")
> [@turintuor](#): > > Devs believed that the “no mana surge on 4+match” is enough to solve the Wisp issue… That’s crazy… ☹ A simple 3 match of red or purple with a mana surge fills 2 Wisps on turn 1. And without surge it still fills 1 Wisp, already allowing for the loop to start… ---
**Author:** ![Taliesin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/22d042/32.png) [@Taliesin](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Taliesin)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 2:12pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-meta-at-its-worst-state-ever/30848/43 "2017-09-28T14:12:36Z")
Why not do away with the set defense and make it so that you play a random team that your opponent has built. This would help with facing the same teams over and over and over. Keep a set defense in gw but randomize PvP. ---
**Author:** ![Mariox](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mariox/32/6721_2.png) [@Mariox](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mariox)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 2:47pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-meta-at-its-worst-state-ever/30848/44 "2017-09-28T14:47:52Z")
Just need direct counter to wisp, like something to reduce attack on your own team. Only troop I have found to reliably counter Wisp is Psion. Most will set defense to ignore skull matches so Psion can keep draining Wisp. Maybe some immune to charm troops. ---
**Author:** ![Delinquent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7c8e57/32.png) [@Delinquent](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Delinquent)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 2:49pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-meta-at-its-worst-state-ever/30848/45 "2017-09-28T14:49:18Z")
Just need to f’n nerf wisps already. Coming up with more counters is nonsense. They’re clearly OP and annoying as s\*\*\*. Sometimes things just need to be nerfed. ---
**Author:** ![Amadan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/amadan/32/7653_2.png) [@Amadan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Amadan)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 7:52pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-meta-at-its-worst-state-ever/30848/46 "2017-09-28T19:52:41Z")
To be fair, “boring” and “uninspired” come around just from seeing the enemy lineup - and at that point, even if you’re winning every match, it’s still boring. I feel like I at least currently see more variety in defense teams than, say, when Manticore/BD was almost every team I fought, even if it’s now the same _few_ teams over and over. ---
**Author:** ![Loghery](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e4f/32.png) [@Loghery](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Loghery)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 11:39pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-meta-at-its-worst-state-ever/30848/47 "2017-11-09T23:39:14Z")
Make charmed a “status” condition like Mana burn… as it should be, and your impervious won’t be able to be charmed. According to most fantasy systems fey should always be immune to charm/sleep effects. Give fey a Impervious-like ability that the dwarves have and we will have our counter. Immunity to mana drain is a tough one, but in my opinion should be reserved to Divine (or mystic). Especially since it seems many mana drainers are daemon. ---
**Author:** ![JuaitoR](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/juaitor/32/11770_2.png) [@JuaitoR](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/JuaitoR)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 12:08am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-meta-at-its-worst-state-ever/30848/48 "2017-11-10T00:08:10Z")
I really like the drain immunity idea. I support it. ---
**Author:** ![Viridian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/3ab097/32.png) [@Viridian](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Viridian)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 11:56am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-meta-at-its-worst-state-ever/30848/49 "2017-11-10T11:56:52Z")
> [@Druss](#): > > Managed to get to 3000 in PvP facing only 2 teams - a grand total of 5 different troops out of nearly 400. > > Every battle is Wisp, Wisp, Krystenax, Mab or Forest Troll, Kraken x2, Mab. > > The reasons these are used is obvious with the new (albeit crap) algorithm. The AI cannot play these teams badly, as they endlessly loop whilst preventing the opposing team from doing so. > > Can we please go back to some sort of strategy being employed? First off, I couldn’t agree with you more, 110% agreement. But that said, I had a statement / question myself… You know I’ve been posting in threads (and creating some of my own) and for the life of me it isn’t two minutes that someone is attacking me in some brutal way for ‘even mentioning’ that this game might be on a downturn, that the pvp is kinda lame, boring at best and downright absurd and frustrating at worst. It seems no matter where there are die-hard people so adamant that this game is ‘perfect’ and how dare I insinuate the devs could ‘do a better job’ etc, the thing I don’t get is these people act like they need ‘proof’ to show that others are unhappy with the game, yet it only takes two seconds to find ‘yet another’ thread where multitudes of people are clearly unhappy with the game, especially the nonsense pvp (in it’s current state). I couldn’t agree more about how ridiculous pvp has become (long story short until people are ‘forced’ to use actual (mostly) kingdom based ‘teams’ per each said kingdom, the pvp will always be a meta-‘trash’ game where the weirdest most leet special power trumps all others (the other 95% of cards). I started a thread with, what I honestly think, are some really cool ideas. And strangely enough (maybe it was the time of the night? very late…) I swear if most people were ready to strangle me at the thought that this pvp needed a massive overhaul. Please check out that thread “Alright, 3 possibly awesome ideas that might change the game” (not exact title but starts with ‘Alright’ etc…) Do give your feedback because I’m starting to sense that most reasonable players have left (especially with the recent update) and perhaps it’s only the ‘fan-boy’ types that are left, or are at least willing to post in the forums. Can’t be sure either way I want to see for myself. anyways yeah when they brought out the ‘insta-kill’ abilities that pretty much spelled the downfall of pvp as it stands now, as it’s impossible for most normal cards to handle that kind of stuff, so the game has put itself into a diminishing return ‘treadmill’ where you either use the most leet cards yourself, or just get churned and constantly lose in the pvp process. Please check out that thread I think there’s some viable options in there. cool thanks ---
**Author:** ![Rockwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@Rockwell](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rockwell)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 12:46pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-meta-at-its-worst-state-ever/30848/50 "2017-11-10T12:46:13Z")
> [@Loghery](#): > > Immunity to mana drain is a tough one, but in my opinion should be reserved to Divine (or mystic). Especially since it seems many mana drainers are daemon. I have to disagree, simply because my “Mana Rippers” team is often the only way I can defeat high level opponents! Emperor Korvash Moloch Spirit Fox (or Dracos 1337) Spider Totem The aim is to Stun or Drain the opponents sufficiently often to stop Trolls/ Valkyrie/ Mercy/ Kraken/ Mab/ Sylvanimora/ TDS doing their things and then whittle them down with True Damage. If I can’t Drain them, there’s virtually no way for me to win short of getting lots of lucky drops. ---
**Author:** ![shadyady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c6cbf5/32.png) [@shadyady](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/shadyady)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 2:25pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-meta-at-its-worst-state-ever/30848/51 "2017-11-10T14:25:42Z")
When facing wisp or trolls as first troop I always like my attack team to have Psion in first place, and keep steeling/draining opponent mana. Against Troll/Kracken teams I always have elemaugrin (i.e. impervious) as last troop. ---
**Author:** ![JuaitoR](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/juaitor/32/11770_2.png) [@JuaitoR](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/JuaitoR)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 4:33pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-meta-at-its-worst-state-ever/30848/52 "2017-11-10T16:33:08Z")
First of all, IMO you shouldn’t be able to defeat players that are at a much higher level than yourself. Now to the main point, limiting mana drain immunity to a race would be a lot more beneficial to invaders than to defenders. As with any other immunity in the game. Because scouting. ---
**Author:** ![Rockwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@Rockwell](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rockwell)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 5:20pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-meta-at-its-worst-state-ever/30848/53 "2017-11-10T17:20:42Z")
> [@JuaitoR](#): > > IMO you shouldn’t be able to defeat players that are at a much higher level than yourself. Tell that to the Spartans at Thermopylae or the Carthaginians at Cannae or the British at Rorke’s Drift. Because Tactics. > [@JuaitoR](#): > > limiting mana drain immunity to a race would be a lot more beneficial to invaders than to defenders. Ok, but which race? Or do you create a new Kingdom with (some) troops which are immune to Mana Drain? ---
**Author:** ![JuaitoR](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/juaitor/32/11770_2.png) [@JuaitoR](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/JuaitoR)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 5:48pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-meta-at-its-worst-state-ever/30848/54 "2017-11-10T17:48:43Z")
Those historical battles are the exception, not the rule. That’s why they became legendary. Are you a legend? Lol Loghery suggested Divines or mystic for having immunity to mana drain. I like his idea. But we aren’t devs, they’re the ones that have to decide if it is beneficial to the game to add such a feature. Personally, I prefer having older troops reworked than adding new features through new kingdom themes. Like enrage with urskaya, submerge with merlantis or storms with suncrest, etc. But devs like doing it through new kingdoms. ---
**Author:** ![Rockwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@Rockwell](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rockwell)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2017, 12:06am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-meta-at-its-worst-state-ever/30848/55 "2017-11-11T00:06:40Z")
> [@JuaitoR](#): > > Are you a legend? Legend? I’m bloody Mythic, me! 🤣 [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-meta-at-its-worst-state-ever/30848.md?page=2)