# Is the "Backup" talent still at 35% summon chance? Discuss
**URL:** https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-backup-talent-still-at-35-summon-chance-discuss/56581
**Category:** Gameplay Chat (PC/Mobile)
**Created:** [July 23, 2019, 1:13am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-backup-talent-still-at-35-summon-chance-discuss/56581 "2019-07-23T01:13:51Z")
**Posts on this page:** 15
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Graeme](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Graeme)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2019, 1:13am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-backup-talent-still-at-35-summon-chance-discuss/56581/1 "2019-07-23T01:13:51Z")
Just been wondering this recently.
“Feels” more like the original 50% of late.
I don’t have a crapload of data to back this up though, maybe RNG hates me 😆
---
### Author:  [@morenfin](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/morenfin)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2019, 1:15am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-backup-talent-still-at-35-summon-chance-discuss/56581/2 "2019-07-23T01:15:41Z")
They should just remove the passive summon skills. Just makes pvp worse than it already is.
---
### Author:  [@Fleg](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Fleg)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2019, 1:20am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-backup-talent-still-at-35-summon-chance-discuss/56581/3 "2019-07-23T01:20:03Z")
Needs to be 25% at most. Orbweaver summoning spiders too.
---
### Author:  [@Jonathan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Jonathan)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2019, 1:35am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-backup-talent-still-at-35-summon-chance-discuss/56581/4 "2019-07-23T01:35:11Z")
I’ve been thinking it would help if they were somehow capped?
---
### Author:  [@awryan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/awryan)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2019, 1:43am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-backup-talent-still-at-35-summon-chance-discuss/56581/5 "2019-07-23T01:43:59Z")
> [@Fleg](#):
>
> Needs to be 25% at most. Orbweaver summoning spiders too.
Since this is a trait on a hero class… They’ll NEVER change it. Unfortunately.
---
### Author:  [@Fleg](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Fleg)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2019, 2:35am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-backup-talent-still-at-35-summon-chance-discuss/56581/6 "2019-07-23T02:35:10Z")
Well they recently changed thief from 50% to 35% after much feedback. Don’t see why we can’t get it changed again.
---
### Author:  [@Rickygervais](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rickygervais)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2019, 2:37am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-backup-talent-still-at-35-summon-chance-discuss/56581/7 "2019-07-23T02:37:51Z")
3 summon or resurection should be the max, the battles are getting longer because of this stupidity
Very boring having to kill 10 spider or bandit to finish every fights
---
### Author:  [@Fleg](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Fleg)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2019, 2:43am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-backup-talent-still-at-35-summon-chance-discuss/56581/8 "2019-07-23T02:43:04Z")
That’s a good idea, I would actually take it further and make these talents a “once only” talent like some spells are.
---
### Author:  [@awryan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/awryan)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2019, 2:52am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-backup-talent-still-at-35-summon-chance-discuss/56581/9 "2019-07-23T02:52:22Z")
> [@Fleg](#):
>
> Well they recently changed thief from 50% to 35% after much feedback. Don’t see why we can’t get it changed again.
Talents and troop traits can be changed…hero class traits not so much. Different coding for all 3…
---
### Author:  [@awryan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/awryan)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2019, 3:44am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-backup-talent-still-at-35-summon-chance-discuss/56581/10 "2019-07-23T03:44:06Z")
4 bandit summons.
^^^ broken as intended.
---
### Author:  [@Slypenslyde](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Slypenslyde)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2019, 12:56pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-backup-talent-still-at-35-summon-chance-discuss/56581/11 "2019-07-23T12:56:04Z")
I think the takeaway here is “35% is still 1/3 which happens more often than people believe.”
But I still reference the age-old TDS discussion that went like this:
- TDS was supposed to have a unique trait, but the devs couldn’t finish it on time so it got a 50% (?) resurrection trait.
- Players complained for a year+ that it procced too often. The devs pointed at “RNG” and stuck out their tongues.
- Players asked for the new TDS trait.
- The devs were too busy.
- One player did an analysis that suggested the TDS resurrection was proccing at 5%, but with abnormal bias towards “streaking”. He asserted a 90% confidence that instead of picking with equal probability, it was more likely to proc 0 or 3 times in a match than 1 or 2, which suggested a very strange RNG bias.
- By the next update the devs mysteriously decided to prioritize assigning a unique third trait to TDS.
Since then, any player who _dares_ utter that the RNG could have a streak biased is ridiculed, because player memory is short.
So historical takeaways are:
- The RNG is biased in that it favors streaks or misses more than it should.
- It still hits the right probability over time. The bias only shows itself if you think radical thoughts like “3 in a row” ought to be less likely than “2 in a row” and even less likely than “1 in a row”.
- The devs only served to reinforce this with what I call a “Trump denial”. It’s when you assert, “I could not have stolen cookies from the cookie jar because I am allergic to dairy.” and within 10 minutes have Tweeted, “Dunking Oreos with best friend and totally misunderstood Cookie Monster at a dairy farm!” with pictures.
- Players absolutely hate summon-on-death triggers.
---
### Author:  [@Fleg](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Fleg)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2019, 4:22pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-backup-talent-still-at-35-summon-chance-discuss/56581/12 "2019-07-23T16:22:01Z")
The worst thing about these type of summons is nobody really uses them in offense, not really. They are only used as a PITA defense.
---
### Author:  [@awryan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/awryan)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2019, 4:30pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-backup-talent-still-at-35-summon-chance-discuss/56581/13 "2019-07-23T16:30:14Z")
> [@Fleg](#):
>
> The worst thing about these type of summons is nobody really uses them in offense, not really. They are only used as a PITA defense.
I’m on the lonely island of believing Thief is the best class in the game. Bandit does come in handy on offense. But when it does, it still feels broken. 🤷♂️
---
### Author:  [@Jonathan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Jonathan)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2019, 10:55pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-backup-talent-still-at-35-summon-chance-discuss/56581/14 "2019-07-23T22:55:39Z")
Yeah, I used it for a Raid Boss once (when it was 50%) with Trickster’s Shot, and it just felt like cheating.
---
### Author:  [@Maxx](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Maxx)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2019, 4:06am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/is-the-backup-talent-still-at-35-summon-chance-discuss/56581/15 "2019-07-24T04:06:46Z")
> [@Fleg](#):
>
> Needs to be 25% at most. Orbweaver summoning spiders too.
I think Orbweavers trait should be higher. I would be happy with 20% on talents and 25% on Orbweaver.