# \[INVESTIGATING\] Reflect... Still broken 🤷
**URL:** https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/investigating-reflect-still-broken/69133
**Category:** Bug Reports
**Created:** [March 22, 2021, 4:32pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/investigating-reflect-still-broken/69133 "2021-03-22T16:32:58Z")
**Posts on this page:** 15
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@awryan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/awryan)
#### Post date: [March 22, 2021, 4:32pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/investigating-reflect-still-broken/69133/1 "2021-03-22T16:32:58Z")
Here’s the original bug Report(s)
> [@\[Investigating\] Reflect is Inconsistent in how it treats "incoming damage"](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/investigating-reflect-is-inconsistent-in-how-it-treats-incoming-damage/61009):
>
> If a troop has 10 health left and reflects 50% of skull damage back. Then any 2nd grader could tell you if a player does skull damage resulting in 10 damage being done… That only 5 damage should be reflected back. Well… But if that is working as intended then… Why is it a barriered troop doesn’t reflect any skull damage? Both would be considered “incoming damage” right? In the first case potential damage is being Ref…
Seems like a waste of time to comprehensively fill out yet another versionjust to see nothing be done a year(s) later.
But here’s the latest proof of life that “Reflect” is unable to calculate how much life the troop has actually remaining and reflect the appropriate amount of damage. Instead it reflects potential damage done to the troop. (And no those of you just joining the class, that’s not the intended behavior at all.)
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### Author:  [@Jerry\_the\_skunk](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Jerry_the_skunk)
#### Post date: [March 22, 2021, 5:04pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/investigating-reflect-still-broken/69133/2 "2021-03-22T17:04:19Z")
Hm.
Attacker hits [thorns/spikes/ouchything] and gets hurt by his own force. Does not depend on how much it takes to kill the spiky one.
Spiky one is shielded and does not receive damage - attacker does not get to strike the stingy thing that hurts.
To me, it feels logical.
[Edit:] At least as long as you don’t think too hard about why being stunned makes the spikes go away.
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### Author:  [@awryan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/awryan)
#### Post date: [March 22, 2021, 6:09pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/investigating-reflect-still-broken/69133/3 "2021-03-22T18:09:12Z")
> [@Jerry\_the\_skunk](#):
>
> To me, it feels logical.
I see. So if my troop has 1000 attack.
And you have a first tier trait on a legendary troop activated even if your troop starts with level 1 health. When my troop does skull damage to your troop. 250 damage will be reflected back?
That seems logical to you?
Keep in mind Reflect isn’t just reserved for skull damage. It just is in regards to this case.
But what you’re suggesting is basically if a troop has the reflect status cast on it. (Which reflects spell damage) then, when Lethal or Devour gets cast. Then the troop casting it would die (most likely) as well since the game would see it as 500 damage.
As I tried to say in the OP…
> [@awryan](#):
>
> (And no those of you just joining the class, that’s not the intended behavior at all.)
They have already stated that they are “investigating it” it’s just been 14 months since they have. If it was the intended behavior this would of been slapped with “not a bug” long ago. I don’t expect people to click on the ancient links. So I tried to get ahead of “bug report puzzles” and be clear that there’s absolutely nothing to indicate that this is intended.
I wish I could say that there’s no way in hell this is intended behavior. But the devs could just decide to be lazy and make the bug a feature and say “yeah that’s how we want it to work” and then have Reflect the status work completely different.
_Cites Kingdom Stars 22 Bug offers as a great example…or The Warren Delve Traitstones_
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### Author:  [@Tibo](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Tibo)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2021, 9:06am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/investigating-reflect-still-broken/69133/4 "2021-03-24T09:06:53Z")
Bigger problem that the instant kill spells are still implemented as doing dmg to a troop equals their armor+life. My guild mate killed himself twice in halls of reflection using Megavore. I assume the bug still exists for armor stripper weapons too.
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### Author:  [@Fourdottwoone](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Fourdottwoone)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2021, 10:35am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/investigating-reflect-still-broken/69133/5 "2021-03-24T10:35:20Z")
> [@Tibo](#):
>
> I assume the bug still exists for armor stripper weapons too.
I seem to recall some patch notes claiming this to be fixed, haven’t been able to find them though.
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### Author:  [@Sytro](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Sytro)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2021, 11:03am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/investigating-reflect-still-broken/69133/6 "2021-03-24T11:03:32Z")
> [@Fourdottwoone](#):
>
> I seem to recall some patch notes claiming this to be fixed, haven’t been able to find them though.
tried to reproduce that bug with rope dart some time ago, but it didn’t trigger at all… maybe it was fixed for weapons only, as they are single target armor strippers and megavore is multiple targets ?
or bug returned ?
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### Author:  [@Fourdottwoone](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Fourdottwoone)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2021, 11:05am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/investigating-reflect-still-broken/69133/7 "2021-03-24T11:05:40Z")
> [@Sytro](#):
>
> maybe it was fixed for weapons only, as they are single target armor strippers and megavore is multiple targets ?
If it reflects based on armor stripped, hitting four targets might still hurt enough to kill Megavore.
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### Author:  [@Sytro](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Sytro)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2021, 11:07am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/investigating-reflect-still-broken/69133/8 "2021-03-24T11:07:52Z")
> [@Fourdottwoone](#):
>
> If it reflects based on armor stripped, hitting four targets might still hurt enough to kill Megavore.
reflect returns 0 damage no matter how much armor was stipped off. it reflects only damage done by spell, no damage is inflicted by armor stripping part.
at least that’s what I got with rope dart experiments
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### Author:  [@Fourdottwoone](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Fourdottwoone)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2021, 11:13am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/investigating-reflect-still-broken/69133/9 "2021-03-24T11:13:06Z")
> [@Sytro](#):
>
> reflect returns 0 damage no matter how much armor was stipped off. it reflects only damage done by spell, no damage is inflicted by armor stripping part.
Oops, brain fart. So some strip effects might remove armor, some others destroy armor. Sounds tedious to test, we don’t have any troops that start out with reflect, right?
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### Author:  [@Sytro](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Sytro)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2021, 11:25am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/investigating-reflect-still-broken/69133/10 "2021-03-24T11:25:40Z")
Put 4x mirror queen and allow them to do a match 4 🙂
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### Author:  [@Tibo](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Tibo)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2021, 6:47pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/investigating-reflect-still-broken/69133/11 "2021-03-24T18:47:48Z")
It’s not the armor stripping part, but the 3rd trait on Megavore. Mega has 8% chance to kill the last enemy on 4-5 matches. The trait proved to be suicidal.
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### Author:  [@JamesDurning](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/JamesDurning)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2021, 3:51pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/investigating-reflect-still-broken/69133/12 "2021-03-25T15:51:10Z")
Same with hero traits. If an archer’s 15% bullseye procs on a reflect armor enemy like Yao Guai, it kills himself too.
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### Author:  [@Fourdottwoone](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Fourdottwoone)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2021, 4:53pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/investigating-reflect-still-broken/69133/13 "2021-03-25T16:53:02Z")
That observation makes kind of sense, I seem to recall such kills were handled as dealing 10000 damage. What about Zuul? Haven’t ever seen that happen to him, maybe the spell has a hidden cleanse phase?
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### Author:  [@noob](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/noob)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2021, 8:26pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/investigating-reflect-still-broken/69133/14 "2021-03-25T20:26:37Z")
When megavore’s trait procs against an enemy with reflect, it receives 2x (enemy’s HP + armor) return damage
When archer’s trait procs against an enemy with reflect, it receives 5x (enemy’s HP + armor) return damage
When archer’s trait procs against an enemy with infernal armor which reflects 25% of skull damage, it receives 2.5x (enemy’s HP + armor) return damage
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### Author:  [@awryan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/awryan)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2021, 8:36pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/investigating-reflect-still-broken/69133/15 "2021-03-25T20:36:22Z")
> [@noob](#):
>
> When megavore’s trait procs against an enemy with reflect, it receives 2x (enemy’s HP + armor) return damage
>
> When archer’s trait procs against an enemy with reflect, it receives 5x (enemy’s HP + armor) return damage
>
> When archer’s trait procs against an enemy with infernal armor which reflects 25% of skull damage, it receives 2.5x (enemy’s HP + armor) return damage
All of which are different than what happened in my bug report. Just to keep those who actually care about the OP. On the topic on hand.
Good information to know though @noob.
So I guess my example is bad prior. Devour and Zuulgoth’s lethal cast should reflect back as damage according to what currently happens already then.
The game is still responsible to base the damage on the enemy’s actual life and armor. And not just potential damage.