# I conducted a scientific study on the state of current endgame meta **URL:** \ **Category:** Uncategorized\ **Created:** [August 24, 2016, 5:17am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469 "2016-08-24T05:17:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![TaliaParks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/taliaparks/32/11738_2.png) [@TaliaParks](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TaliaParks)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 5:56am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/165 "2016-08-26T05:56:33Z")
> [@Sirrian](#): > > Also… let’s keep the trolling, attacks, and memes out of this thread please. I’m actually finding the _discussion_ parts of this are useful feedback. +1 for finding “discussion” in this burning pit of despair. ---
**Author:** ![Darkness](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/darkness/32/2712_2.png) [@Darkness](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Darkness)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 6:20am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/167 "2016-08-26T06:20:34Z")
> [@TaliaParks](#): > > Are you aware of the Mana denial strategy? The problem is that this doesn’t work against Manticore because he is so cheap to charge. Sure, you can delay his charging a bit, but you will never be able to prevent it completely like you can with troops with more expensive spells like Maw, Mab or the Apocalypse troops… ---
**Author:** ![Kharybdys](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/kharybdys/32/2023_2.png) [@Kharybdys](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Kharybdys)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 8:02am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/168 "2016-08-26T08:02:06Z")
The few times I went against Manticore, he charged in two turns due to mana surge on a three match. This happens more in higher levels too, which makes your point less valid, about increasing the mana cost. Have you considered going for “drain half your mana”? Or drain half of your max mana? They feel better than a pure drain 5. ---
**Author:** ![Sirrian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/sirrian/32/35758_2.png) [@Sirrian](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Sirrian)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 8:06am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/169 "2016-08-26T08:06:35Z")
Actually, we agree! That’s exactly what I was trying to say in my post above: 1. Increase mana cost hits him _harder_ at low levels where he’s not a problem anyway 2. Reducing the mana drain is something we’ve been testing here & quite like so far ---
**Author:** ![Azbra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/azbra/32/23589_2.png) [@Azbra](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Azbra)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 8:08am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/170 "2016-08-26T08:08:21Z")
What about for Manticore to make it single cast but give him some more serious buffs (like life/armor)? Would still serve its purpose but not slowing down games to a crawl. Or Mana drain + silence but still single cast. Spirit fox flat drain is just too low. Losing 5 mana is basically nothing especially with banner buffs. And because it removes all yellows, it often hands a great board for gem matching. ---
**Author:** ![Robert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/robert/32/12802_2.png) [@Robert](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Robert)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 8:52am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/171 "2016-08-26T08:52:19Z")
I dont know if the defence is especially concerned with Manticore. It may be that they are against the constant nerfing that seems to be developing nowadays. If there is someone useful in next months kingdom then that fresh troop will be the topic of discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Razzagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/razzagor/32/50037_2.png) [@Razzagor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Razzagor)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 11:00am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/172 "2016-08-26T11:00:26Z")
Yeah, and while it’s ok for the defendants to acuse us of not being able to handle the troop they would flip their “shih tzu” if we start saying that they don’t want their new overpowered toys nerfed… People are going lower and lower to try to silence these discussions no matter what… Suddenly it’s now a… > [@TaliaParks](#): > > …burning pit of despair. So what’s the issue? Why we can’t discuss something without being accused of ruining the game one post at time, or being labeled as a bad player, or a really small minority in a dirty attempt to invalidate our opinions? ---
**Author:** ![Robert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/robert/32/12802_2.png) [@Robert](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Robert)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 11:22am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/173 "2016-08-26T11:22:51Z")
Although I didnt get the impression people were trying to keep Manticore as he is for their own personal gain, some of the people above are on console and dont even have the troop, that may well be true for some. Im pretty sure that quote from Mr.Talia was just his own way of saying the conversation has not been very constructive. Everyone has a different personality. What I took from all the above was that there is a tendency for end gamers to start/agree with these topics. Instead of debating Manticore we should come up with ways to keep end game players motivated. Have you any ideas @Ivar? ---
**Author:** ![Razzagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/razzagor/32/50037_2.png) [@Razzagor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Razzagor)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 11:55am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/174 "2016-08-26T11:55:09Z")
> [@Robert](#): > > Although I didnt get the impression people were trying to keep Manticore as he is for their own personal gain, some of the people above are on **console and dont even have the troop** , that may well be true for some. Yeah, and while he is on console, don’t have the troop, don’t felt the impact of all the changes done in order to allow the current state of the game i never used this as an excuse to disregard his opinion that i had in a certain steem… Until now… > [@Robert](#): > > Im pretty sure that quote from Mr.Talia was just his own way of saying the conversation has not been very constructive. Posting a meme because he didn’t wanted to keep discussing the matter was _very constructive_ i guess. But this behavior only has a negative impact on him. > [@Robert](#): > > What I took from all the above was that there is a tendency for end gamers to start/agree with these topics. Instead of debating Manticore we should come up with ways to keep end game players motivated. > > Have you any ideas? > [@New PVP mode suggestion: Weekly Bans](http://community.gemsofwar.com/t/new-pvp-mode-suggestion-weekly-bans/8746): > > Hmmmm… All the talk about PVP variety has kept me thinking while i was also checking my MTG collection to see what are in the current meta and what was banned/unbanned recently. After a while i came up with an idea that maybe could be implemented on GoW: Weekly tournament bans. What do you mean? Each week we could have something “removed” from the game, be it troops or kingdoms. It would affect the tournament only and only for the duration of one week. It brings more variety of teams for a wh… This one cames up when Maw was still devouring on skull damage, it was a possibility to avoid nerfing troops so people would have their favorites untouched, but not available every week. Having this model as a parallel event would be ideal since it wouldn’t affect the core game while offering an optional challenge. There is no easy solution for the end-gamers lack of variety because everyone will pick the most reliable troops to use, but the thing is that when some troop is waaaaaayyyy ahead in the power curve it’s obviously a best pick. Some traits for example are much more desirable than others, having two of them, Empowered and Impervious, just increases the value of Manticore, taking one or another out of it will generate mixed feedback but probably one general result: The troop wouldn’t be used as much as it is. Reworking existing troops would be the way to go, it does have a positve impact on all level ranges, but that takes a lot of time because it’s like making a new kingdom and troops just using the current art, so it’s understandable that the developers can’t push for it as fast as we desire. Short steps to improve troops could be done by reworking just a few traits, i suggested increasing the immunities of some troop’s traits so Impervious would still be great, but some other traits would be valuable while leaving room for possible counters: > [@"Thick Head" trait, give with caution](http://community.gemsofwar.com/t/thick-head-trait-give-with-caution/10394/20): > > A little late for the discussion but maybe the devs could consider some dual immunities for the troops like: Thick Head: Immune to Stun and Charm. Iron cast guts: Immune to Poison and Disease. Warded: Immune to Deathmark and Cursed. Mana Shield Immune to Mana Burn and Mana Drain. This would add a little more value to some traits and the troops itself. For example: Pride Guardian with Thick Head making him immune to Charm too would help his team since he wouldn’t deal damage to his allies, rem… ---
**Author:** ![Robert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/robert/32/12802_2.png) [@Robert](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Robert)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 12:14pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/175 "2016-08-26T12:14:22Z")
You still have tunnel vision on altering troops - im tired of playing goblins and knights at my level and im sure people at other levels have they’re own issues; it is inevitable really. One more reasonable solution, that will help people at all stages of the game, is to increase rewards when a defence team is varied regularly. ---
**Author:** ![Razzagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/razzagor/32/50037_2.png) [@Razzagor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Razzagor)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 12:22pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/176 "2016-08-26T12:22:40Z")
The problem is that it would require more troops fully traited and leveled, some compositions would still be more used because they are better than others. If someone would exchange his Goblin Team for a Knight Team from time to time it wouldn’t help your case. We have troops that sucks, damn some could be “Mayor of Sucktown” and it won’t change unless they are reworked. ---
**Author:** ![Robert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/robert/32/12802_2.png) [@Robert](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Robert)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 12:37pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/177 "2016-08-26T12:37:53Z")
Sounds like it gives you a better reason to trait them; something for you to do end game. I left it open ended on purpose… make the extra rewards require people to use more than 2 different teams… to whatever is required. There are plenty of troops that are viable. I feel this is a great solution for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Razzagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/razzagor/32/50037_2.png) [@Razzagor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Razzagor)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 12:46pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/178 "2016-08-26T12:46:59Z")
It’s kind of covered in my suggestion of “Weekly bans”, if Zaejin is banned this week no one would face Goblins this week in particular, so people would need to use something else. But to avoid that this “something else” is not mostly another very commom team, like Knights since you mentioned it, it would be possible if more troops are reworked to be more effetive/fun to use. I’m not against some kind of reward for more diversity, i’m afraid that, at some extent, too much rewards hurts the game’s profit. And that applies for my own idea as well, another kind of event with similar rewards as PVP is “dangerous”… But that’s something else i’ve been thinking about in the pile of ideas i write down from time to time. ---
**Author:** ![Robert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/robert/32/12802_2.png) [@Robert](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Robert)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 12:59pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/179 "2016-08-26T12:59:16Z")
I dont see the issue. I havent even stated what rewards yet - a reasonable amount that makes it worth someones while, doesnt need to be extreme. It could even be arranged by having some increase for changing your team each day and some reduction for keeping the same. It wont take much to get people to do it. Just look at the daily tasks on console…peanuts. If there was an extra task every day for using a unique team on defence (unused in the past 5 days) for 15 gems, 15k gold or 40 glory id do it every time. The ins and outs can be discussed but as a general principle it will fix everyones problem by increasing variety immediately. ---
**Author:** ![HKdirewolf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/hkdirewolf/32/21614_2.png) [@HKdirewolf](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/HKdirewolf)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 1:04pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/180 "2016-08-26T13:04:30Z")
I highly doubt they’d want to write code to ban different troops every weekend. Sounds way too complicated and faulty. I think the route to take would be to give people a universal incentive to use different troops. Such as was mentioned like trait-stones dropping with a certain color troop use. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 1:08pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/181 "2016-08-26T13:08:52Z")
> [@Ivar](#): > > Maybe i used the wrong word, but why a troop that barely affects the gameplay, acording to some, needs to be defended so fiercily? > If someone has the opinion that we are being salty, or rage-quitting, because of it i can only guess that the same is true to all “defenders” if the said troop ends nerfed… It’s not just THIS troop. It’s every new troop that comes out. In the last week, I’ve started seeing people complaining about ANARIEL. Yeah, Anariel is OP… 😱 ---
**Author:** ![Robert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/robert/32/12802_2.png) [@Robert](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Robert)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 1:11pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/182 "2016-08-26T13:11:08Z")
I think my solution is so simple, easy to implement and effective I should probably be given some form of knighthood. Or bananas. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 1:15pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/183 "2016-08-26T13:15:52Z")
NOBODY on the “don’t nerf” side is trying to silence anybody. This is precisely the type of thing that started the big fight earlier in the week. Any time somebody has the audacity to question whether or not a nerf is necessary, or God forbid that we should be looking at alternative solutions, a half dozen end-gamers show up to shout them down. EVERYBODY has something to offer in this discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Razzagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/razzagor/32/50037_2.png) [@Razzagor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Razzagor)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 1:18pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/184 "2016-08-26T13:18:33Z")
> [@Robert](#): > > It wont take much to get people to do it. Just look at the daily tasks on console…peanuts. We don’t have daily tasks in PC/Mobile, but we have a fast rate of progress with guild tasks in both plataforms, things just scalated quickly with the new PVP for us and as i said this is osmething i’ve been thinking about for a while. > [@Robert](#): > > for 15 gems, 15k gold or 40 glory id do it every time. The amount of gems would be equal to the 15 gems for 15 days deal, so i doubt it should be that much. As a suggestion i would drop it to 5 gems and add some bunch of souls, 300 maybe, that would be needed for new players to upgrade more troops in order to work on more teams. I also feel like 20 of glory would be ok, it’s easier to get glory now with the current pvp system. If you feel like it’s worth to create a new thread and discuss your idea to nail down the details and numbers. > [@HKdirewolf](#): > > I highly doubt they’d want to write code to ban different troops every weekend. Sounds way too complicated and faulty. I think the route to take would be to give people a universal incentive to use different troops. Such as was mentioned like trait-stones dropping with a certain color troop use. I never said my suggestion was the best one, there is plenty of room to brainstorm new ideas. > [@htismaqe](#): > > It’s not just THIS troop. It’s every new troop that comes out. In the last week, I’ve started seeing people complaining about ANARIEL. Yeah, Anariel is OP… 😱 What the whaaaaaaat? Ò\_ô[quote=“htismaqe, post:183, topic:11469, full:true”] NOBODY on the “don’t nerf” side is trying to silence anybody. This is precisely the type of thing that started the big fight earlier in the week. Any time somebody has the audacity to question whether or not a nerf is necessary, or God forbid that we should be looking at alternative solutions, a half dozen end-gamers show up to shout them down. EVERYBODY has something to offer in this discussion. [/quote] I disagree in a lot of points, to not extend it too much here i’ll send you a Private message. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2016, 1:20pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/185 "2016-08-26T13:20:36Z")
> [@Ivar](#): > > I disagree in a lot of points, to not extend it too much here i’ll send you a Private message. Sure that works for me. [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469.md?page=8) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469.md?page=10)