# I conducted a scientific study on the state of current endgame meta **URL:** \ **Category:** Uncategorized\ **Created:** [August 24, 2016, 5:17am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469 "2016-08-24T05:17:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 6:21pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/227 "2016-08-30T18:21:16Z")
No, I wasn’t referring to you. I honestly don’t recall you complaining about Manticore previously… ---
**Author:** ![Darkness](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/darkness/32/2712_2.png) [@Darkness](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Darkness)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 6:22pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/228 "2016-08-30T18:22:11Z")
> [@htismaqe](#): > > No, I wasn’t referring to you. I honestly don’t recall you complaining about Manticore previously… > [@R.I.P. Maw meta. The new meta is Manticore/Khorvash?](http://community.gemsofwar.com/t/r-i-p-maw-meta-the-new-meta-is-manticore-khorvash/11137): > > I’ve been playing PVP quite a bit this week (164 battles so far), and it seems that the Maw meta is definately dead/dying. Last week at least 65-70% of the hard option opponents in PVP contained at least one Maw, but now that number has been reduced to maybe 25%. The new kings of PVP appear to be Manticore and Emperor Khorvash. Usually used both in the same team (around 50-60% of the time in the hardest option in PVP). Now change is good, 'cause the Maw meta was getting old, but Manticore/Khorv… ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 6:25pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/229 "2016-08-30T18:25:20Z")
Well I hate to be a buzzkill but complaining that there’s too many Manticores in PVP defense teams while using Manticore on your defense team is the definition of hypocritical. Rather than show personal restraint you’d rather beg the developers to neuter the troop because you don’t have the self-control not to use it. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 6:33pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/230 "2016-08-30T18:33:02Z")
By the way, if you are truly getting more wins on defense, then that’s cool. Several others earlier in this thread, including the OP, contended that it wasn’t about wins and losses. The mana drain mechanic slows the game down and makes it boring/annoying. By their own reasoning, the only use for Manticore in their own defense teams would be to make everyone else as miserable as they are. ---
**Author:** ![Darkness](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/darkness/32/2712_2.png) [@Darkness](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Darkness)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 6:33pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/231 "2016-08-30T18:33:28Z")
> [@htismaqe](#): > > Well I hate to be a buzzkill but complaining that there’s too many Manticores in PVP defense teams while using Manticore on your defense team is the definition of hypocritical. > > Rather than show personal restraint you’d rather beg the developers to neuter the troop because you don’t have the self-control not to use it. That’s your opinion. 🙂 In my opinion it mererly illustrates that Manticore is actually OP. A team powered by 2 Manticores (and 2 other not fully traited troops) wins more defense battles than a fully traited team of 3 Legendaries and one Epic (and it’s not a weak team either (Maw, Mercy, IK Sheggra is one of the strongest teams still (even now that Maws 3rd trait is fixed). And this is under AI control (so not really easy to take advantage of for the human player). And personal restraint? I’ve never really had any, so it’s kind of illogical to hope for any to start asserting itself now… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 6:35pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/232 "2016-08-30T18:35:44Z")
We’ve become so accustomed to the simplistic AI that a team that **_still isn’t winning at a 50% clip_** is “overpowered”. 😵😁 ---
**Author:** ![Tard\_Carnival](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/tard_carnival/32/609_2.png) [@Tard\_Carnival](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Tard_Carnival)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 6:49pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/233 "2016-08-30T18:49:04Z")
> [@htismaqe](#): > > Well I hate to be a buzzkill but complaining that there’s too many Manticores in PVP defense teams while using Manticore on your defense team is the definition of hypocritical. > > Rather than show personal restraint you’d rather beg the developers to neuter the troop because you don’t have the self-control not to use it. Sirrian himself said they look at troop usage as a criterion for nerfing. Darkness and I are doing our part to increase the likelihood of nerfing. In addition to that, I (and I assume Darkness) play ranked battles for the increased resources granted by a top tier finish. No manticore means you’re a soft target, and defense defeats can be the difference between a 10x arcane rank and a much worse one. Honor is for my guildmates. My opponents grant me no quarter, and they shall receive none from me. ---
**Author:** ![Tard\_Carnival](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/tard_carnival/32/609_2.png) [@Tard\_Carnival](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Tard_Carnival)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 6:54pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/234 "2016-08-30T18:54:17Z")
> [@htismaqe](#): > > By their own reasoning, the only use for Manticore in their own defense teams would be to make everyone else as miserable as they are. To prove a point, _and_ slow them down. My defense team is going to lose the vast majority of fights anyway, but more minutes spent fighting my team is more minutes they’re not making points off someone else’s team, potentially jumping me in the rankings. I’m not pretending to have the moral high ground. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 6:56pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/235 "2016-08-30T18:56:32Z")
Now that logic does make sense. Or it would if we didnt’ already know that a lot of people are skipping Manticore matches to speed things up. ---
**Author:** ![Tard\_Carnival](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/tard_carnival/32/609_2.png) [@Tard\_Carnival](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Tard_Carnival)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 6:57pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/236 "2016-08-30T18:57:42Z")
And that means 3-8 points I’m not losing off my total. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:00pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/237 "2016-08-30T19:00:36Z")
Does winning 4 out of 10 defenses (versus 2 out of 10) really make that much difference for someone that is fighting for top 10? The #3 person right now only has 2 defense wins out of 49 attempts. He’s 265-1 on invades. The top 2 both have well over 400 invades. It seems to me ranking is solely based on time spent invading. ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:04pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/238 "2016-08-30T19:04:41Z")
Min-maxers will min-max. Ranking is decided by time spent invading, but that won’t prevent people from squeezing blood from stones. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:06pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/239 "2016-08-30T19:06:13Z")
That’s kind of my point, just FYI. ---
**Author:** ![Tard\_Carnival](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/tard_carnival/32/609_2.png) [@Tard\_Carnival](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Tard_Carnival)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:07pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/240 "2016-08-30T19:07:18Z")
> [@htismaqe](#): > > It seems to me ranking is solely based on time spent invading. Which would make optimal defense strategy reducing the point value of time spent invading as much as possible, which manticore seems best at. I understand your argument; I just don’t think there’s any room for nobility in a zero-sum competition for resources with such dramatic variations in prizes between ranks. ---
**Author:** ![Razzagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/razzagor/32/50037_2.png) [@Razzagor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Razzagor)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/241 "2016-08-30T19:11:40Z")
> [@Tard\_Carnival](#): > > I understand your argument; I just don’t think there’s any room for nobility in a zero-sum competition for resources with such dramatic variations in prizes between ranks. Also, arguing to change the troop aims to put everyone at the same common ground, it wouldn’t be an uphill battle only for the noble player that will end up with less rewards and less fun while facing something that is unbalanced. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:20pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/242 "2016-08-30T19:20:06Z")
Speak for yourself. 😝 I’m not ending up with less resources or less fun. The game is better now than it has ever been, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Annaerith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/annaerith/32/13840_2.png) [@Annaerith](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Annaerith)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/243 "2016-08-31T17:16:07Z")
> [@htismaqe](#): > > He’s not overpowered, he’s ANNOYING. Sure sounds like a great reason to start nerfing troops. he is overpowered for his rarity level, if it was a legendary i would understand. and yeah i think drain units shouldN’T have so cheap mana cost [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469.md?page=11)