# I conducted a scientific study on the state of current endgame meta **URL:** \ **Category:** Uncategorized\ **Created:** [August 24, 2016, 5:17am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469 "2016-08-24T05:17:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tard\_Carnival](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/tard_carnival/32/609_2.png) [@Tard\_Carnival](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Tard_Carnival)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 5:17am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/1 "2016-08-24T05:17:11Z")
Hypothesis: Excessive exposure to control-denying play elements leads to player disengagement and dissatisfaction in games. Experiment: 147 games played over Monday and Tuesday, resulting in 146 wins and 1 loss. Data: Manticore use on endgame defense teams is borderline ubiquitous. At one point, user had three fights in a row with a lineup of Khorvash Mab Valkyrie Manticore. Second most common team theme was Multi-Horsemen, which also proved most challenging. Player would experience his only loss to an all apocalyptic lineup. Fights involving Mantikhorvash proved easy yet tedious, with constant yet unthreatening setbacks. A combination of Mab’s control-denying third trait and Manticore’s inexplicably low casting cost meant dealing with prolonged periods of boredom and the frustration of taking a futile turn. Conclusion: Hypothesis proven beyond doubt. MantiKhorvash meta is trash. ---
**Author:** ![Tacet](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/tacet/32/35_2.png) [@Tacet](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Tacet)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 5:25am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/2 "2016-08-24T05:25:29Z")
Metacore (2+ Manticores) is much better than Mantikorvash on defense. I also ended up naming the team of Manticore - Mercy - Infernal King - Sheegra as Metacore. xD ---
**Author:** ![TaliaParks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/taliaparks/32/11738_2.png) [@TaliaParks](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TaliaParks)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 5:25am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/3 "2016-08-24T05:25:55Z")
“scientific” [![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/3/37e4259392746f53a202e0371d3269b8911a8dd1.jpg)](https://imgflip.com/i/19ey28) ---
**Author:** ![Tard\_Carnival](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/tard_carnival/32/609_2.png) [@Tard\_Carnival](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Tard_Carnival)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 6:09am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/4 "2016-08-24T06:09:32Z")
> [@Tacet](#): > > Metacore (2+ Manticores) is much better than Mantikorvash on defense. I believe you. I think I’m going full manticore. I’ll call it mantibore. ---
**Author:** ![Tard\_Carnival](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/tard_carnival/32/609_2.png) [@Tard\_Carnival](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Tard_Carnival)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 6:11am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/5 "2016-08-24T06:11:07Z")
> [@TaliaParks](#): > > “scientific” ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/3/37c0a3d1e6ae437a067f9472907898d5fea60387.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Robert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/robert/32/12802_2.png) [@Robert](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Robert)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 7:34am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/6 "2016-08-24T07:34:46Z")
You seem to like alienating yourself ---
**Author:** ![therealwetwilly](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/therealwetwilly/32/4178_2.png) [@therealwetwilly](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/therealwetwilly)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 8:11am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/7 "2016-08-24T08:11:36Z")
I feel this thread will be counterproductive when more people go “oh so this manticore thing is good on def?” ---
**Author:** ![Draprion](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/draprion/32/8238_2.png) [@Draprion](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Draprion)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 8:22am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/8 "2016-08-24T08:22:22Z")
pretty much every other PVP match I have these days is against manticore. not hard, just annoying. ---
**Author:** ![Draprion](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/draprion/32/8238_2.png) [@Draprion](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Draprion)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 8:23am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/9 "2016-08-24T08:23:20Z")
I do like your picture Tard, really focuses on the right thing(s). ---
**Author:** ![Drathas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/drathas/32/7344_2.png) [@Drathas](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Drathas)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 10:04am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/10 "2016-08-24T10:04:14Z")
The thing that annoys me about Manitcore is that it’s only counter is another Manitcore. Spirit Fox doesn’t drain enough mana from it as the cheap mana cost means it’s back up again the next turn. ---
**Author:** ![HKdirewolf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/hkdirewolf/32/21614_2.png) [@HKdirewolf](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/HKdirewolf)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 10:56am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/11 "2016-08-24T10:56:29Z")
Obvious troll is obvious. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 1:16pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/12 "2016-08-24T13:16:11Z")
The thing that annoys me about Manticore, and to a lesser extent Khorvash, is the end-game players constantly complaining about it. Now before everybody gets all huffy again, let me be perfectly clear - IT’S NOT THEIR FAULT. The end-game is a big problem. Nearly ALL of the complaints about Maw came from end-game players. Nearly ALL of the complaints about MantiSPAM are coming from end-game players. In fact, most of the OP complaints period come from end-game players. And as the thread starter proved, it’s not because they dislike losing. It’s because they desire VARIETY. They desire the variety that I, as a level 555 player, ALREADY HAVE. Manticore, at my level, is FUN. Period. He’s not annoying or OP, he’s just straight up fun to play and fun to fight against. @Sirrian and @Nimhain, I really hope you’re reading this for what it is. The end-game, not Manticore, needs fixed. ---
**Author:** ![PinkMooNinja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/pinkmooninja/32/5432_2.png) [@PinkMooNinja](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/PinkMooNinja)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 2:19pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/13 "2016-08-24T14:19:40Z")
Sorry, Manticore needs fixed as well. Manticore is balance breaking, and needs to be brought back into line. Raising his mana cost should help immensely. I would even consider giving him Fast, in lieu of Empowered. ---
**Author:** ![pell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/67e7ee/32.png) [@pell](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/pell)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 2:20pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/14 "2016-08-24T14:20:19Z")
Don’t even care about the data. Just wanted to say that Tard\_Carnival may be the best screen name I’ve seen on these forums. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 2:20pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/15 "2016-08-24T14:20:59Z")
He’s not balance breaking at all. The thread starter was 149 and 1 against MantiSPAM teams. Let’s make sure we’re being perfectly clear here: By “balance breaking” you really mean “I still win 99.9% of my games but it takes 3 minutes instead of 1.5 and that’s pissing me off”. ---
**Author:** ![Robert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/robert/32/12802_2.png) [@Robert](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Robert)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 2:22pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/16 "2016-08-24T14:22:13Z")
A wise old lion ---
**Author:** ![PinkMooNinja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/pinkmooninja/32/5432_2.png) [@PinkMooNinja](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/PinkMooNinja)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 2:23pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/17 "2016-08-24T14:23:10Z")
He is more balance breaking that Mab, or at least on par with her. He is incredibly disruptive, and just because the OP won 99.9% of the time, doesn’t mean he isn’t disruptive and over-powered. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 2:23pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/18 "2016-08-24T14:23:48Z")
Thanks for proving my point. He’s not overpowered, he’s ANNOYING. Sure sounds like a great reason to start nerfing troops. ---
**Author:** ![baller](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f05b48/32.png) [@baller](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/baller)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 2:31pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/19 "2016-08-24T14:31:24Z")
It does actually. The only thing he does is make games last longer. I haven’t lost to a single manticore in 2 weeks. I actually think i haven’t lost a single game since the maw nerf. The current meta for defense is to make games last as long as possible because it’s really hard to win without maw randomly devouring a troop. I may be the minority but i actually enjoyed the challenge of fighting 3v5 when i got rng’d by maw. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 2:34pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469/20 "2016-08-24T14:34:48Z")
That’s completely counterintuitive. Just saying. The fact that this is even a complaint points to a much bigger problem than any one single troop. The game is far, far too easy and the emphasis on time is too pronounced. [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/i-conducted-a-scientific-study-on-the-state-of-current-endgame-meta/11469.md?page=2)